so continuing my research into feeding BARF and so far you guys are proving far more informative than most of the reading i've done! everywhere says to feed veg, fine no bother, but i'm having trouble figuring out how much veg i should feed. he's a very large bullmastiff so does anyone have a clue how much it should be?

sorry this isn't a direct answer, but if he isn't used to eating veg it is worth approaching it the same as any other food change - wean gradually. My pup had daily frozen/raw carrots (helped with teething), one day I gave him a bowl of left over bioled carrots & it give him the runs - my fault for giving him a load of 'new' food :(

he does eat veg sometimes as a snack but i'd be weaning on to the different diet, i wouldn't want to switch immediately. i'm just finding it really hard to find suggested amounts!

I do a batch every 3 days and keep it cool( no room in freezer ).I use a food processor so its fairly fine).I whizz up about a kilo of carrots,7 or 8 sprouts or the equivalent in cabbage,broccoli or similar.A couple of parsnips.they are quite sweet so dogs like them.A 1/2 bulb of garlic,bit of swede.They like raw beetroot so sometimes have this.Any other bits i my have left over in my veggie rack.Then i have 3 apples,1 orange banana or anything the kids have left in fruit bowl.I like to add a few herbs.I bought those pot growing one from supermarket.Thyme and parsley are good.I also bought a packet of mixed seeds from Asda - linseed,flax etc.50p for a packet and this lasts 2 weeks.When mixed it fills a approx 1 1/2 litre plastic container.I have 4 mals.Pups are about 30 kg in weight each,bitch about 38kg and my lad about 45kg.They all have about 3 tablespoons of veggies at each meal.Mix in about 1lb meat each-little more for larger dog,little less for pups.Then i add 1 raw egg or tablespoon of probotic yogurt.This is what my dogs seem to like but all dogs are different.They will have snacks of carrot,apple,chicken wings,pigs trotters and bones.They take their time over their food.The only dog that always looks for more is my 9 month old boy.

ok thanks, that gives me a better indication or proportions for his size. so would you say about half to three quarters of a cup of mix like that in a meal?

I hardly ever feed veg :)

I didn't feed any when I fed raw. Gave my dog the squits something terrible and toxic gas that could fog the whole room up Carrot seemed to be the only thing he was ok with, but he wasn't very keen at all and would rather leave a whole meal than try to pick the nice bits out.

Handy bit of info: veg grown below ground is meant to firm poo up and veg grown above is meant to loosen (didn't apply to mine obviously!).

Just been searching for an old post of Tohme's as she wrote added some very good info about veggies but it's telling me the thread doesn't exist for some reason Luckily I copied and pasted loads of info into word documents when I was researching raw feeding and have this snippet by Tohme (shame the thread seems to have gone though):

"Veggies - All except onions; they can cause haemolytic anaemia in dogs because they contain chemicals that oxidise the animal's red blood cells.

Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach, Chard or Beetroot Leaves.

Care should be taken not to overfeed cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips, cassava, and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.

Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods; I personally don't feed potatoes at all.

Fruit - all except Grapes and raisins which can cause kidney failure."

I used to feed my BT all human diet rather than dog food.
To get them used to eating veg I would stir fry it in wok for 5 Min's . He did become food obsessed though and I couldn't eat anything without him thinking it was for him. As I only brought him fresh veg [cheap & on offer at supermarket] I became fed up with chopping it all everyday plus I worked as a chef so seemed to spend my life cooking food for others. One thing he loved most was his home-meal granary toast with honey for breakfast ! I feed him Arden grange now and I don't feed the recommended amount.  I find they always tell you to over feed so 1 cup AM 1cup PM he will walk around with his bowl asking for more some days so I give him a small handful extra to keep him happy. We can all get peckish some-day's? Now any left overs he has or even carrot peeling he loves.

I never give onions,they have had a little bit of leek but was only left overs from a casserole.I also don't feed mushrooms.and they have never had aubergines or potatoes or peppers or sweet corn,as they are hard to digest and something didn't feel right giving them to them in their diet.Gosh my grammer is bad!

thats really helpful, ta.

the BARF book i'm reading at the moment seems to think that alfalfa is the greatest thing in the world... i know its a veggie that popular in the US but i don;t actually know what it is. is there a version thats popular in the uk?

I think it's a legume. You can get it in this country (my mum used to sprout it in a jar in the windowsill :-D). I would be cautious in feeding it to a deep chested dog though - it's gas producing and one of the things to be wary of in regards to bloat. It's mentioned in the Purdue study I think.

a definate no no then for my boy as definately deep chested. i will work out the vitimin contents and find other things.