I'm not very happy about annual vaccinations and after researching this subject, to me anyway the cons seems to outweigh the pros.  Also, especially with smaller breeds, vaccinations have been linked with an array of immune disorders and allergies, normally occurring days or a few weeks from the injections.  In Australia and US they advise vets not to vaccinate routinely every year, but to check the dogs' immunity first to see if the vaccination in necessary.

I know a lot of vets are now offering single vaccines and a three-year vaccine instead.  Also titre tests are becoming more common.  I just wondered where everyone stands with this.  My dogs have only had their puppy vaccines.  I may booster my older dog when he is about three (titre test first though) and that should be sufficient for him.

Depends if you need to put your dogs in to kennels at any time. My Father years ago knew a vet and he told him that there's no real need after the dog has had its puppy jabs . A lot of people have now gone down the holistic road with their pets care , some have said to me the only time to take an animal to the vet is for surgery? I had to have my dogs inoculations done as there into kennels later this year and it cost  £100 for 2 dogs which was for an annual booster, kennel cough and wormer . I haven't heard about the 3 year jab but would be interested into having that instead of going every 12 months.   

Ooo got nothing to add but am interested to see peoples thoughts as my dogs first annual booster is due soon.

This comes up quite a bit.

I do not routinely vaccinate every year, I routinely titre test to check for immunity instead, and will vaccinate if I need to. I chose not to vaccinate for Lepto though regardless. So far, my girl who is almost 3 has only needed her puppy vaccs. I know people who's dogs have never been vaccinated, not even puppy vaccs and have been titre tested immune and they are up to three years old.

It is not enough though, IMO to simply not vaccinate OR titre test.

OK, mine have had annual vac up through the years until 2004 when they were 8 and 9 years old.   They had a titre test which showed a good immune response and that was it for the triple vac (Adeno, Distemper, Parvo), and PI.  In 2005 they had Lepto only.

That finished the vac and I'm not doing any more.  I'm confident in view of having puppy vacs and a booster every year thereafter for 8/9 years and a good immune response as shown by titre in 2005 that if they are not protected now, they never will be.  I also had that confirmed by Prof Hal Thompson of Glasgow Uni.  (BTW, this is for Parvo, Distemper and Adeno)

If I started again now with another dog, I would do puppy vacs, titre at 1 year old and on the basis of that test decide how often to vac going forward.  If a booster was needed, I likely would titre post-vac to ensure it took and what the immune response was like.  If good, (4-fold or more number of anitbodies), I would leave it for 5, 6 years before titre and possibly vac again. 

Stopped routine boosters long ago - first puppy vacs (I now wait longer than my initial time of 8 & 10 wks in favour of 12 & 14+ wks), full year later a booster and opt for titre testing at 4 years +  thereafter :) 

regards, Teri

My two had there boosters yesterday and I had a chat with vet about titre testing - I have read so many horror stories about vaccine induced auto immune problems that now I worry myself sick whether or not I am doing the right thing. To be honest, she baffled me with science and said that to be totally safe, titre tests would need to be carried out every 3 months and then what do you do if the test is inconclusive? I feel that your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I think TBF that routine titre testing is a relatively new concept for most GP vets (they after all don't even do the testing but only the blood sample which is then sent off) whereas annual boosters are very much their bread and butter :)  Somewhere between these two reasons I think is probably why many if not most will remain in favour of vaccine and regular booster shots throughout the course of a pet's lifetime.

I don't believe that routine boostering is necessary and, in fact, lean much more towards it being an unsafe practice but each individual owner has to do their own homework on this subject and reach their own conclusions when they feel suitably "informed" or even just to decide if they should sit on the fence for a while ;)

regards, Teri

Think I'm sat on that fence Teri.........I have the vaccines done because if I didn't, it would be just my luck for my dogs to catch something although I'm really not very comfortable about having them done if that makes sense.

I can completely understand that it's a bit of quandry - as are many things to do with medicine whether for humans or animals :)  We're brought up to think the professionals are always right but over time sometimes we find they make mistakes other times we find they don't even agree among themselves LOL.

Everyone has to do what they think best given the circumstances they face.  Some dogs may have health issues where vaccination would make things worse so their owners may fret at their dog NOT being done.  Other times local outbreaks of diseases may persuade some owners to go back down the booster route.

It's a judgement call - and a personal one at that :)  Teri

how often do you have the titre tests done Teri?

Stopped having annual boosters after one of my lot had a reaction.

This may be of some interest, although of course arguments can be put forward to support yearly vaccinations.

http://www.britfeld.com/vaccine-thompson.htm

The plan with the now resident dogs is for it to be every two/three years but may become annually if there should be anything to suggest that's insufficient.

I'm fortunate that my own vet is closely affiliated with the Glasgow University Vet hospital so can have results pretty quick as they could practically throw the blood test in the lab window over the wall LOL.

The first dog I had titre tested (about 3 years ago from memory) hadn't been vaccinated for 5 years and was found to have good levels of immunity so TBH the jury is still out here about how often etc.

so they don't need doing every three months? This was my main concern as I do believe it can be quite expensive - not that I would ever let money get in the way of my dogs welfare but unfortunately, I haven't got enough to spend willy nilly. How do people stand with pet insurance when they chose not to keep up with annual boosters?

Our last 2 dogs always had the booster every year - we didn't know any different at the time (didn't have the internet then :-D) and they were both very healthy dogs so we never questioned it really. My current dog, now aged 4, has had countless health issues from 4/5 months of age (several ongoing) and I was advised by a homeopathic vet not to have him boostered. Done a fair bit of reading on the subject, and it seems that even the vaccine manufacturers themselves catergorically state that only healthy animals should be vaccinated/boostered, yet the vets we were going to up until the last 2 years would have quite happily injected him with another load yearly. The vets we're with now agree with our decision. I do vaccinate him homeopathically - whether it works or not I haven't a clue.

I will do it very differently next time. Picked current dog up when he was 7 weeks old and he'd had the first lot of puppy vaccs within a week. Far too young I think now, and the younger they're vaccinated the higher the chance it won't take anyway if still covered by mum's antibodies.

Out of interest Teri, do you let your pups down on public ground before/during the vaccs..?

>so they don't need doing every three months?

definitely not - unless for some reason the dog had lower levels of antibodies present to one or more of the tested diseases and it was then recommended for it to be rechecked.   Many folks argue that titres only really cover the day of the result being noted - i.e. the dog, 24 hours later, may no longer be sufficiently immune.  This is one of those areas and arguments which goes round and round in circles among dog folks at all levels - whether the pet owning public, GP vet or specialist consultant LOL.  Everybody has a view and few are exactly the same based on genuine research, development and evidence.

It's an ongoing debate among the professionals as to how effective vaccines are long term v how reliable titre tests are even over the short term. 

Not having annual booster re insurance would mean that your pet was not covered for illness from any of the diseases the vaccination/booster is for but it should not affect any other treatment your animal needs.  As to whether or not titre test results will eventually become acceptable I don't know - I'm not aware of any insurance policies which include the wording for them but of course that could change over time.

I think (from vague memory) on this subject before, someone mentioned a boarding kennels accepting titre results but I'm not certain .... might be worth running a forum search!  It's not an area which affects me as my dogs are never boarded :)

>How do people stand with pet insurance when they chose not to keep up with annual boosters?

Not sure about the others but this is what it says on our policy (Kennel Club):

"The following exclusions apply in respect of the above pet: Claims arising directly or indirectly as a result of infection with distemper, infectious canine hepatitis, leptospirosis and canine parvovirus".

Everything else they cover as normal.

Hi zarah

>Out of interest Teri, do you let your pups down on public ground before/during the vaccs..?

Yes, I take them out in my arms a.s.a.p.  (my home bred girl was going out, in pairs along with her littermates, from 4.5/5 wks) and then when too heavy at around 8 weeks I  take my pups out to areas which have no apparent (or obvious anyway) doggy population.  I dont take them to parks for eg although as the resident adults go out as normal it's just an extra precaution as of course they could bring something back home which may affect a puppy's health.

I personally believe that early and ongoing socialisation is THE most vital part of puppy ownership and the pup's development :)  I didn't do this with my first puppy and TBH she was always quite prone to coming down with every bug going around whereas subsequent puppies have all seemed considerably more robust.  This could of course be due to other factors or merely a coincidence but I feel a bit of exposure to a few "normal" germs does them no harm - bit like kids really!

Every dog I have ever owned has had a booster every year, never a problem. :) That's 27 dogs.

Totally agree Teri :-D Pretty much what I plan to do next time. I carried my current dog for about a week (didn't make it very far up the road mind as he was already like a sack of spuds!) and then because I don't drive we ended up pretty much stuck in the house and garden for most of the time until he was 12 weeks old and supposedly "safe" to go on the ground (I followed everything by the book back then and didn't question what the vets told me - amazing how much you can evolve in 4 years :-D). Thankfully he has a wonderful temperament - we did go to the puppy parties and out in the car a few times a week if I could get a lift but still, he would have been having daily socialisation outside of the house/garden during the 8-12 week period if I'd known what I know now.

Can you give me an idea how much the titre testing costs?  If you - for example - had a 2/3 year break, would you then have to have the complete course (2 jabs) again or be able to have just the booster?  Reason I ask is that there has been a 'drive' recently on getting your animals vaccinated offering the 2 jabs for the price of one if you have lapsed for any reason.

My recent titre was £62, but the blood test itself wasn't a large proportion of that.

You only need to ever have one booster in an adult dog, never a course. However, quite a lot of vets, ours included charge the same for one booster as they do for a course anyway. Vets are largely tied by vaccine manufacturers reccomendations.

>I think TBF that routine titre testing is a relatively new concept for most GP vets (they after all don't even do the testing but only the blood sample which is then sent off) whereas annual boosters are very much their bread and butter

No offence, but I'm not sure of the logic here. :-) After all, if boosters (say £30 or so annually) are their 'bread and butter', surely titre testing is even more so? After all, they can charge the £25+ for the consult and £10 for taking the blood and sending it off (a larger income already) and then charge for any booster required on top. So if they were only interested in the money aspect wouldn't they fall on this golden goose with open arms?

>Every dog I have ever owned has had a booster every year, never a problem.

Likewise. That's only 9 dogs though, not your 27! :-D

>Every dog I have ever owned has had a booster every year, never a problem.

Likewise. That's only 9 dogs though, not your 27!

Yes, but isn't that a bit like the people who say 'I slept all my babies on their tummy and smoked around them with no problems'?

e.g. there will always be people who do it with no problems, but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence to suggest it's not the rigth thing to do.

It's as valid as any other evidence though. Both sides of the coin are equally important.

I think you're missing the point. It is scientifically proven that sleeping babies on their tummies and smoking around them increases the risk of SIDS. The factthat someone didn't follow that advice and all turned out well is irrelevant.

Yes, there so far is very little scientific proof that vaccines can cause problems, and a lot of evidence to say that it is safe to vaccinate each year. But who's going to fund research into vaccines being dangerous? Certainly not the manufacturers.

The lepto vaccine is a real bugbear of mine. It IS scientifically proven that it only protects against two of the ten plus strains of lepto in this country dogs can contract, and also proven that in plenty of cases the vaccine only provides protection for 3-6 months. Yet, we only get advised to boost once a year. Why is that? Why is it also that when we vaccinate our dogs, we are never told that just because the dog has been vaciinated, it doesn't mean it is immune? Except in the case of rabies, where there are serious repercussions to humans if the vaccine doesn't take.

Well I do my puppy vacc, first annual booster, a booster around three years later and then that is it.

Us humes do not get boostered throughout our lives.  We have our baby vacc, pre school and sometimes one after that,a nd only do others if we travel somewhere where a disease that we won't come into contact with is prevalent.

Don't see why then our short lived animals would need so much boostering, when we don't.  Maybe it is because the National Health Service foots the bill so only the absolute necessary vaccinations are done.  I wonder what the protocols for vaccinations would be if our dogs treatment was on the NHS.

Just had my youngster for her first booster and her Mum for her second at almost three years since her last.

The Vet did raise an eyebrow about her being well overdue and I piped up no it's not three years yet.  She mentioned Lepto only working or a year to which I said, if your lucky, and as the vaccine does not cover the serovars most likely to be met in UK, and also that it is the one causing most reactions I prefer not to booster with it more often.  She went ahead and gave me the jabs with no more lectures.

My 8 1/2 and 10 1/2 year old who are in excellent health I did not do as I did not want to risk rocking the boat (they were last boostered almost 3 years ago).

>I think you're missing the point. It is scientifically proven that sleeping babies on their tummies and smoking around them increases the risk of SIDS. The factthat someone didn't follow that advice and all turned out well is irrelevant.

The point is that 'scientific evidence' changes practically from day to day. One day scientists state that a glass of red wine a day is beneficial and before you know it another group has proven that it causes problems. 20 years ago we were told to lay babies on their tummies to sleep - today mothers are told to lay them on their backs; now I read that there's an increased incidence of children needing surgery because the backs of their skulls are flattened ...

The point is that there are no guarantees.

I made the decision this year not to booster and know a few people that are going that way too...wonder when the vets will cotton on to this.... and what will happen....

E

Having spoke to friends who have owned obedience working dogs it has been common for at least 30 years to only have puppy vaccs and perhaps their first booster.  Speaking to people in conformation circles routine vaccination has been much more common, maybe ti is just the two different groups of dog people I come into contact with.

> Yes, there so far is very little scientific proof that vaccines can cause problems, and a lot of evidence to say that it is safe to vaccinate each year. But who's going to fund research into vaccines being dangerous? Certainly not the manufacturers.

The Cavalier of ours that died from the reaction to his Lepto booster is proof that vaccines can cause problems, he had his booster, collapsed in the reception as my dad was waiting to pay & 3 hours later was dead, subsequent PM showed that his death was caused by the reaction to his lepto vaccination. A friend of mine is doing research into vaccine reactions(in humans as well as animals)& her findings to date(only been ongoing for 8 years so no where near completed)for dogs is that the Lepto Vax causes the most severe reactions & deaths, but boosters at varying stages in life & also the initial puppy vax have all caused deaths. Her advice to me was titre test before all vaccinations(even puppy ones) & never ever vaccinate an animal that has any current or ongoing illness(the vax companies do stage that only healthy dogs should be vax(their get out if the dog is or dies & has any health issues even if they would not be affected by the vaccine)

It is easy to say that there is no scientific proof if you have never had an animal affected by vaccine reaction, I've got no virtually no immune system, because I was over vaccinated in order to do some voluntary work abroad(in Biafra)

Ells-Bells,

>Can you give me an idea how much the titre testing costs?

from memory it was in the ball park of £40 :)  I'd expect when I next have it done it will be around £70 + as prices for everything seem to have risen quite dramatically in the last few years.

>would you then have to have the complete course (2 jabs) again or be able to have just the booster?

I would only ever have a booster if it was proven necessary to do anything - doing the full course is IMO totally unnecessary.

>there has been a 'drive' recently on getting your animals vaccinated offering the 2 jabs for the price of one if you have lapsed for any reason.

Same at my practice but they've never asked me ;)  They currently have a very professional coloured shiny poster up on the desk saying that there's an outbreak of something or other (I think parvo but have forgotten >sigh<) in the area but when I asked when this had happened the nurse told me that head office had sent them to all practices - nationwide - and they hadn't seen any problems in our area LOL.  The poster's been up for at least 6 months now .....  clever marketing / brazen hard-sell or plain old fashioned scaremongering?  I'd go with the latter myself!

regards, Teri

Hi Jeangenie,

I didn't say vets were only in it for the money

The reference to comparing titre testing with vacs was simply as stated - the former being a newer concept to many (IMO) and the latter being routine work, hence the "bread and butter" analogy.

>So if they were only interested in the money aspect wouldn't they fall on this golden goose with open arms?

Very probably - but then only on the proviso that titre testing revealed a need to booster the animal again :-D

I happen to feel that most vets are in it for the love and care of animals and considering the hours they work, service they provide, dedication etc very much the majority of them get little recognition :)  I'm not so naive as to believe that ways of increasing profit don't come into it - it's a service yes, but also a business.  The food, non prescription vairieties I mean, toys, beds, leads, bowls, cat baskets, grooming equipment etc are all part and parcel of extending the possibility of making more money but of course none of those have the potential to have a direct affect, positive or negative, on our pet's health.

So if you decide not to booster your dog every year ,which sounds fine by the sound of what has been said here, but you then get a new puppy, will the pup possibly be at risk until he/she has had their full set of jabs as the other dog you own also isnt boostered?
Just curious as we always have our girl boostered annually and this is making intresting reading.

If titres really cost as much as either £40 or £62 I can see why people don't do it -I could never afford to pay that when I pay just £12 for each booster.

No more at risk than they would be if the other do gwere boostered, providing the other dog is immune.

Dogs build immunity to the risks they are exposed to daily in the environment - in plain terms that's also the basis on which the vacs work in the first place except that the "disease" is not caught but introduced to the animal in lab altered form so that the animals own body builds up anti-bodies to fight it :)

Existing dogs are very unlikely to pass anything serious onto a puppy - except for example something like kennel cough, a viral condition.  Due to that none of mine are shown or taken to training classes/dog clubs of any kind near to me having a new pup or during the early weeks of the pup being home :)

regards, Teri

Marianne, I can see what you're saying, although our vets charge £30 for an annual booster, as they include a health check with that.

We go without other thinsg so we can afford for our dogs, which is easier if there is only one or two.

Thanks Teri, cleared that up nicely :) ;) !!

A booster at my vet would cost roughly the same Marianne - maybe a bit less, but certainly not 12 quid LOL :)

My new pup's vac course cost £78.

Jackson, there is a health check included in the £12 I pay as well. :) Never known a vet NOT to do one when they vaccinate. As I've never had a problem with vaccines (and that includes cats as well, of which I have had a lot more in my life than the 27 dogs -although with the cats I stop doing boosters at 10 years of age as obviously they don't go out and at that age don't go to shows either, so I figured after years of vaccinations they should be okay) I've never seen a need to titre test, and if it is that expensive, it would take a lot to convince me to bother. :)

Gordon Bennet Teri! I pay £20 for full puppy course and £15 for full kitten course!

I checked later when I took Mayhem and the litter to the same practice (about 3.5 yrs ago) and it was £42 per puppy   I don't personally feel that the price points they are reaching now will encourage many folks to vaccinate at all. 

The practice is in a very affluent area, with a profusion of small pedigree breeds and lots of little old ladies with cats - but even so, being elderly doesn't make you doo lally should they ever decide to shop around LOL.   There are two other places relatively close by which are not dissimilar in price though so I guess they each just keep abreast of what the others are charging.

Here at teh vaccination clinic that does it cheaper it is still £45 for a puppy course and £25 for a booster.  At my usual Vets it is aroudn £65 for the full puppy course and £35 for a booster. 

Pet Passport Rabies and bloods cost over £200.  My youngster failed and I have decided not to do the Rabies again until after she has been proven, as I only wanted to be able to possibly take her abroad for mating in the future.

The total PP price for my bitch cost £187 (a year ago) and she failed the blood titre so we decided not to re-do it.

Edit to add would have been £20 more had she not already been micro-chipped.

>> How do people stand with pet insurance when they chose not to keep up with annual boosters?

I rang my insurers to ask and they said that if the manufacturers instructions were followed and the vet agreed then we would still be insured.  Whether or not the vet agrees with every 3 years for some and yearly for the other (I forget which one but I think it was parainfluenza) could be totally subjective though.

> "The following exclusions apply in respect of the above pet: Claims arising directly or indirectly as a result of infection with distemper, infectious canine hepatitis, leptospirosis and canine parvovirus".
>
> Everything else they cover as normal

Same for mine

Wow, thanks for all the replies.  I have to say we must have one of the country's most expensive vets, charging £65 for the puppy vaccs and then £45 for the booster (not that i've had that).  I must say, I feel more confident after reading your replies, that I'm doing the right thing and not going along the annual route.  Cheers guys.

There is another route that doesn't seem to have been mentioned.  All mine get their puppy vaccs. then a year later they start homeopathic vacc. in tablet form.  They are on this for the rest of their lives.

Sarah.

I mentioned that above :-D