i am thinking of breeding my ddb bitch at the end of this year beginning of of next but i am a bit concerned as to wether i will be able to find a stud dog to do the business due to her size she is a lot taller than an average ddb bitch (i am comparing her on the british sizes as they seem a lot smaller than the european ones) although she is over the british breed standards she is under the european (just). i dont use her for showing  so it never really mattered that much. she also has a good size head and is very big boned  i am trying to find a dog thet is a little bigger than her or would it be ok to use a smaller stud dog (i am confused) as i would like to produce pups that are big boned and chunky like my bitch or would i be better to try to use a smaller dog and get smaller dogs. daisy (my bitch) had an imported father and british bred mother although her grandmother was also imported. am really confused at the moment as she is a stunning looking dog.

Could you not ask your breeder about stud dogs? They would be the best people to advise you on this and may even help you find the right one.

should you be using a bitch that is too tall? and why breed if you dont show? there are loads of ddb in rescue

Is this the same dog you rescued that had been starved and abused?

i dont know if im allowed to post this, i know a guy who cant seem to find the right sized bitch as he is really big, we are talking about the dogue de bordeaux arent we? if you need any info i could get it for you if you like, he is in the north east

>although she is over the british breed standards

Over-size (and under-size) are deviations from the breed standard, so you should seriously consider whether you should breed from her at all. If you do, make sure that the sire's previous offspring are within the standard height range so that you don't compound the problem.

Regardless of her size, has she been hip scored & tested for any of the other problems that may occur in the breed?   She may carry an inherited condition which deems her unsuitable to be bred from before you start thinking of stud dogs.

I would suggest you think hard before considering breeding from this bitch.  Your thoughts should be e what has she to offer the breed. 

As you don't show her how do you know she is a good enough example of her breed other than being over/top size.

For such a new breed to the UK there has been a huge population explosion in the breed and therefore it is likely that many are of less than top quality and your bitch really needs to be assessed to see if she has traits that will improve the quality of the breed in the UK.

Good Hip scores and other health tests go without saying of course.

is this the same dog you rescued that had been starved and abused?

no it is not the same dogue.

why are you wanting to breed from her maz?

Isn't it funny how many European breeds have a totally different breed standard here and for some reason seem smaller?  Why does this country seem to make up it's own ideals rather than follow the country of origins?  Is it thinking that HD and other health problems may be lessened?  I don't know.

i am wanting to breed from her as i believe she has a lot to offer the breed (except her height). although i do not show her i have attended shows as a spectator  she has little white on her only a little on her toes is in proportion according to breed standards length of nose in proportion to her head etc.(yes i have had the measure out)as i said the only problem is her height she also has a excellent temprement and not an agressive bone in her body as i have seen some that are the opposite way and too protective to the point of nipping (only because the owner moved the dog out quickly) my 7 year daughter who had been visiting the family for years and is well accustomed as to how to act around dogs when she went to get a drink.

surely correct height is the first and most important part of 'type'

i understand what u are saying but if all other traits are good then if i breed her with a smaller dog will i not get smaller pups?

Not necessarily. What size were his parents and grandparents? He might be the only small one in a long line of biggies, so you could just be compounding the problem.

Can I ask what her hipscore is.  She seriously needs this doing if she hasn't already, with a breed that has severe HD.

her hip score is 12 and i will be checking background on dog that i use for stud

Breeding oversized to undersized does not produce correct size.
If you do go ahead with breeding you should find a CORRECT sized male in order to try to produce correct size puppies
Nikki

when i said smaller i did not mean undersized sorry for the confusion

I know you say that you consider she has a lot to offer the breed but can I ask If you are an expert on your breed? If not then you really need to get her assessed by a BREED SPECIALIST.What do you consider needs improving on her other than her height?

ok, i can understand that but if you attend shows why not choose to show her? it's just that, without knowing how long you've been in the breed, it generally takes an expert to properly asses a dog against others of its kind. despite that your reasons seem like good ones and your clearly being careful with having the tests etc but i really would seriously think about it. they are a breed with rocketing rescue numbers and you will be responsible for these babies for the rest of their lives, its also a big risk for your girl. do you have a list of bookings? have you picked a stud?

Yoyr comments about your bitch and size compared to the breed standards confuse me as the UK and FCI standard are identical on the desired height range, bith say a bitch should be 58-66 cms, although the FCI does then say there is a tolerance of 1-2 cm allowed. To get the correct size you should mate her to a dog of the correct size, but also one that is typical and is sound. There are very many DDB bred every year, there is a huge rescue problem, there are not enough suitable homes, and far to many rescued DDB heve to be put down for temperament reasons. You say your bitch has a lot to offer the breed, and I am quite sure she is a great companion, but what will her litter do for the breed in the UK, why have you not shown her? Please be sure that you have plenty of suitable homes lined up before you mate her.

no i am not an expert on the breed but have owned ddb for 4 years and done a lot of homework both before buying and it is ongoing she has been seen by other ddb breeders (not been mated) who have known these dogs longer than i have (who show their dogues) and the only problem they can see is her height this is the reason i am considering breeding her (local breeders). i do know about the rescue problem my other dog was bought by me and i might add for a good sum of money off her previous owner due to being seriously neglected and i am pleased to say this person is now banned from keeping dogs i do have 4 good homes for  pups she produces should i decide to mate her as i said in my first post this is only something that i am considering and i appreciate any concerns you have as it is advice i am after and am getting good advice back as for her height she is 68 cm in height which is borderline i have also noticed that the judges seem to prefur the smaller end ddb.

4 homes arent enough in a breed that often has 10 pups! half of all reserved people drop out as well

Hi Maz,
I think some people are being a bit hard on you as you said you are only considering breeding her and it seems to me you have talked to alot of breeders who show and know there stuff.  Unlike Joe bloogs down the road who has a litter of jr or what ever every year to get a bit of extra cash! I relise that everyone has there opinions on these matters but all of you started somewhere didn't you? and sometimes i feel like people ask for advice and get shot down in the process! Maz apears to have done alot of home work and cares a great deal for his/her dog

The thing is no-one has to breed a litter, especially in a breed where there already exists a sizable rescue problem.  So why does the OP want to breed if they are not showing.  No mention is made that the dogs are working dogs etc.

The purpose of breeding is to maintain and improve the breed, and this is generally done by proving ones stock in the ring or working field, and then if good enough to consider breeding if one has a long term goal in mind.

The breed although exploding in numbers is yet still a fledgling breed in this country so there are few breeders with a long history in the breed which is needed to help newer breeders research into what lies behind their dogs.  Few UK breeders for example will have known/seen every dog in a 5 generation pedigree.  when I started I could approach breeders for information on all the dogs in my bitches background and ditto the prospective sires.

Now just 16 years on I know a lot of the dogs in my and other pedigrees personally, can remember their characters and those of their offspring, the faults and virtues they produced as well as some of the minor/subtle points of type they passed on for generations.  then of course any health issues can be tracked too, and best steps to minimise their likelihood, without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

As for your particular bitch, the breed has a range of size and she is outside of that, where you generally would be looking for her to be about mid range.  Also it is often the case that the more compact animals are sounder and typier than the bigger ones, so judges will and should favour them.

Generally if you mate a large and small individual you will get large and small pups, rarely the middle of the size range your after.

If you choose a medium size dog who has medium size ancestors then you will get some like him, and some oversize like yours.

When breeding you need to have a long range plan.  You need to have a look at your stock and the breed as a whole to know what ingredients you have available for your recipe, and when making breeding choices your thinking of at least the next generation beyond that.  In other words what you are likely to do with the offspring, what will be likely available when you come to breed from them, and where they will fit into the breeds gene pool.