have cross posted as not sure i was in correct topic
well, i have 2 entire bitches, one is 5 and has had 2 litters, the other one is 4 this year and no pups cos she cant bear a dog to touch her (drama queen). i have booked the youngest in to be spayed in may and the other will follow once phantom goes completely. can anyone reasure me that i am doing the right thing??  i am worried about pain post op but mostly worried about spay incontinence and whether the dynamics of my pair will change once they are spayed and smell different? i have heard it can make them aggressive? they get on ok (but it took a long time) and i would hate this to change. can i have your experiences please?
thanks

I think you are doing the right thing. We had two entire bitches aged 6 and 7 1/2, the eldest got pyometra and had to be spayed, the recovery was very quick and they got on just as well as ever, no aggressiveness, and she isn't incontinent :-)

:-D You are doing the right thing, my girl is due to be spayed this year, my one and only concern I have is possible weight gain as she is a good eater although she has approx 2 hours exercise a day I will have to watch that still as bitches can gain weight andalso coat change. :-)

But both are outweighed by possible health problems in later life, pyo and mammary cancer being the main killers and halving the possibility by being spayed.

Apart from that the concerns you have, would not even crossed mymind. My mother has had many bitches spayed, they are completley unaffected, apart from being a little wozzy when coming home, the next day they have always been running around, pain does not seem to be an issue at all.  My mother has always had packs of dogs mixtures of both sexes, both entire and neutered mixed together, never seen aggression and touch wood no incontinence or any medical probs afterwards.

The risk of incontinence seems to be more so when a bitch is done before 12 months.

There is always a risk with any op, but the positives always outweigh the negatives, infact if you are not breeding from your 4 year old it may be worth thinking of having her spayed too.

>But both are outweighed by possible health problems in later life, pyo and mammary cancer being the main killers and halving the possibility by being spayed.

What are the figures for that?

But both are outweighed by possible health problems in later life, pyo and mammary cancer being the main killers and halving the possibility by being spayed.

So why have our Pomeranian's lived to an average of 16 years and why is my eldest SWD nearly 15?  She had a polyp last year but she's only been to the vets three times for something other than the norm for the last 14 years.

What are the figures for that

I'm surprised that you would ask JG working at a vets?

Spaying removes the ovaries and uterus therefore eliminating the chances of Pyo.

It is also well documented on most dog veterinary sites that to spay a bitch before their first season all but erradicates the chances of mammary cancer there are no figures just percentages from 0% - 7% depending on which site you read. ;-) of contracting mammary cancer but as many of us don't agree with spaying before the first season due to incontinence issues that percentage does go up with the age of our bitches, the older a bitch the more chance of mammary cancer developing.

So why have our Pomeranian's lived to an average of 16 years and why is my eldest SWD nearly 15?  She had a polyp last year but she's only been to the vets three times for something other than the norm for the last 14 years.

Of course not all bitches will get pyo or mammary cancer, that is like saying that all humans will die of cancer.

But dogs like people have to die of something and as cancer is one of the biggest killers then giving our bitches a better chance of not getting it is why spaying is recommended by our vets.

For those who choose to leave their bitches intact, that is a personal choice as always. :-) And of course many bitches will die from heart problems and other medical issues and never get Pyo or cancers. :-)

I think that having a bitch spayed is a personal choice. I have all my bitches done when I decide that they are not going to be bred from, or when their breeding life is over. It did not stop one of my bitches getting mammary tumours, which then went into her chest and lungs. She died aged 12, though, so I don't regret spaying her. My biggest fear was always having an unexpected litter. Though I don't let my dogs out unless they are with me there is always the off chance that they might just get caught by accident, no matter how vigilant I am. Pyo is always another fear.  All my bitches have lived an active and full life after spaying (one even jumped a gate the day after she'd been done ;-) ) The only problem is keeping the weight off them. They tend to become greedier, I find.

>What are the figures for that

>I'm surprised that you would ask JG working at a vets?

That's exactly why I ask. I've been there for 2 years and I've yet to see either a pyo or a mammary cancer in any of the entire bitches that come in. There's been a single case of an incomplete spaying (done by a rescue centre, not us!) where some ovarian tissue was left and so the bitch comes into season but doesn't bleed and can't get pregnant (no uterus), but nothing else hormonal (about a dozen incontinent bitches though). That's why I'm interested in the figures, because they don't seem to tally with what we see.

>Spaying removes the ovaries and uterus therefore eliminating the chances of Pyo.

Don't forget there's always the chance of a 'stump pyo' in the stump of the cervix. Because a bitch is spayed owners are often lulled into a false sense of security, thinking that all risk is gone.

Posted a few days ago, this site gives a more balanced view of the arguments for and against speying/castration

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Many thanks to Brainless for this, it can be really difficult getting factual information about neutering dogs - even from the vet!

> Don't forget there's always the chance of a 'stump pyo' in the stump of the cervix. Because a bitch is spayed owners are often lulled into a false sense of security, thinking that all risk is gone.

A stump pyo is far more likely in a bitch that, during C-section, is spayed.  My veterinary surgeon has had to operate on bitches that, so say, had been spayed elsewhere.  One was a bitch coming over from Greece, and, in his own words, my vet says that he would have been on to the Royal College to have the vet struck off, if it had been in this country.  Not only was the spay incomplete, but a mummified foetus was found in the vaginal canal.  He did give me the technical explanantion of why it was likely to happen in a Caesar/spay, and why it should never happen in a straightforward spay.  He was proud to tell me that his surgery had never had a stump pyo from any bitch spayed there.  The answer?  Get a good vet, and only spay during C-section if totally necessary.

If a bitch isnt going to be bred from I would spay regardless just to prevent disease and possible unwanted pups!

Your doing exactly the right thing :)  my girl was spayed and she has no aggression whatsoever is in her nature :)

Both my bitches are spayed..... one before her first season because at the age of 2 years, she hadn't had one....
Neither are incontinent and both have never shown aggression.
It is personal choice really, but I would go with it every time.....

Gabrielle

I've had several bitches spayed - two after their first seasons, one aged 5 and one aged 7. Only the one spayed aged 5 has suffered from incontinence and needs lifetime medication. None of them changed their temperaments at all.