Hey everyone :)

Quick question if you dont mind!

How does a dog that shows aquire his Stud Book number?

I have no idea how they achieve this and just wondered what its meaning is as well, if any!
Or is it an award that is like gaining a title in terms of becoming a champion etc?

If anyone could explain how you achieve it and what it means I would be very grateful!!

Looking forward to your replies ;)

Stud Book numbers are gained by:
Winning a Junior warrant
Dependant of the Stud band they are in they can get it by gaining 1-3 in certain classes
Winning a Reserve CC
Winning a CC

Thank you for explaining that, got more of an idea now.

So what does it actully mean to get the Stud book number?
what is the stud book numbers purpose?

And just lastly lol How do you mean Stud band, i didnt know there were bands?

Im learning all about showing and this one caught me out, so sorry if i seem dim lol ;)

If you look on the KC site you will find out which breeds come under which Stud Book bands. Now, getting your Stud Book number gives you a lifetime qualification to Crufts. i.e. you don't have to keep qualifiying each year to be able to enter the next year. (hope that makes sense)

In my breed which isn't numerically Strong you only get it for the CC's RCC's JW and for 1st or 2nd in the Open class at champ shows when CC's are on offer.

In some popular breeds the first three in Open and Limit can gain the stud book number, and others it is somewhere in between.

A dog that has a stud book number cannot have it's name changed by adding an Affix.

A dog with a stud book number is qualified for life for Crufts and it is a mark of quality.

The stud book bands are what determines which classes and placings will get the stud book number and is based on the strength of numbers of  the breed in the ring.

A dog with a stud book number is qualified for life for Crufts and it is a mark of quality.

Thats summed it nicely :) thanks for explaining it to me :-D

Can also get it for awards in Field Trials.

In my breed which isn't numerically Strong you only get it for the CC's RCC's JW and for 1st or 2nd in the Open class at champ shows when CC's are on offer.

And in my even rarer breed it's CC, RCC, JW or just a First in Open at champ.show where CCs are on offer.

Im surprised at how much it varies from breed to breed, but it looks like something to aim for if you get life qualification for Crufts, it can only be a good thing!! :)

it also means you cant show at companion shows.

So if you have a Stud Dog number you cant compete in certain shows?
What is a companion show and why cant you compete in it?

is it not a beginners show?

I dont know! Thats why Im asking you guys lol :-D

companion show is just a fun show usually connected to a fete or country show, any dog can enter even if they arent KC registered, some people use them as practice.  I like them as I show my boy there who I dont show at champ/open shows and he often does quite well (usually better than my other boy who qualifies for crufts each year )

>it's CC, RCC, JW or just a First in Open at champ.show where CCs are on offer.

So it's pretty easy to get then?

If you have a really good exhibit :D

>So it's pretty easy to get then?

No - most show dogs will never achieve it.

In theory it should be difficult to get but I've seen many quite mediocre examples of my breed gain stud book numbers over the years by getting third out of three in a weak Open class - I'm sure this happens in other breeds too.

So it's pretty easy to get then? confused

LOL, I wish! There's only 8 shows at which you can do it for a start, one of which is Crufts itself, one is Belfast and one is in Scotland, so discount those not in England for most exhibitors in my breed and Crufts itself and that leaves just 5 shows in the entire year. ALL of which are between May and August, so if you have a bitch with pups, a dog out of coat or similar you've no chance. And there's not been a JW Malinois for the past 13 years or so.

I agree with the JW we have far fewer dogs gain their JW than get their titles.

We never seem to have more than one or two JW winners a year, and often none at all.  Even with now only needing 3 Open show wins instead of 10 a youngster will find it hard to win classes of more than 3 and if the breed entries are small often it is only Open available and the chances of the youngster winning over mature exhibits is poor.

Just checked 2006 had 2 JW winners, 4 champions made up, and 9 stud book numbers.

2005 I JW winner, 5 champions and 11 stud book winners.

Of the stud book winners for those two years 4 are now champions and several others are knocking on the door.

Just wanted to correct in fact only the winner of the Open class (not 1st and second as it was a few years ago) at CC champ shows gets a stud book number, otherwise it is CC, RCC or JW.

We have an extra CC show now giving us 19 CC awarding shows.

Just for interest in 2005 we had 30 different exhibits win CC's or RCC's (but only 9 new Stud book entries, and in 2006 31 different dog/bitches won CC's or RCC's yet only 11 new Stud book entries.

From the above can be seen that the majority of major wins go to established winners, and that a small number go onto achieve their titles and that it takes several years.  We also have a tradition of continuing to show our top dogs for the others to beat, and most dogs are shown into veteran years.

We have only a small number of new exhibits coming through each year, and about half of these will drop away by the time they leave Junior, from some 15 to 20 litters a year.

Easy to get??? I don't think so - my friend that has bred for 25 years - and good quality dogs too, has only had 3 dogs with Stud Book numbers - one of which was the one she sold me, ha ha! :-D

Re the companion shows, by coincidence I was chatting with another friend today and she said nobody would ever know if I showed Henry and it was just my integrity - partly it is that, but I said also I couldn't bear the shame of getting chucked out at a companion show with a CC winner, LOL!!! :-D I love taking my other two dogs to them though. And of course my CC winner can still do all the novelty classes, it's just the pedigree classes he can't go in.

Barbara

>A dog that has a stud book number cannot have it's name changed by adding an Affix.<

Can you remove an affix though? Not the breeders' affix, the one added at the end?

A dog with a stud book number is qualified for life for Crufts and it is a mark of quality.
Considering danes entering scotland say take an average entry of 80 versus 200+ at a normal champ show does that mean a mark of quality when they qualify due to only 3 in limit or open) :-D

A judge always has the option of withholding awards.  So if a dog really is unworthy of an award in the class the judge can do this.

We all know that numbers do not equal quality as some dogs in numerically very small breeds are of very high quality, and breeds with huge entries often the quality is no higher at the winning end, but lower at the also ran end.

As Barbara says, it's up to the judges. We had only 3 entered in Open at a champ show last year - two nice dogs, one not - very unusual for my breed, which is fairly high in numbers. Plenty of the ringside were tutting about the fact that the third would get an easy walk into the Stud Book, but the judge withheld third place.

M.

I have hardly ever seen a judge withhold a stud book qualifying place in my breed - indeed some judges would argue that their job is to just place each dog in order of merit on the day regardless of whether a placing qualifies that dog for Crufts, a stud book number or anything else. I can see a stud book number may be a mark of quality in some breeds where it is difficult to obtain but it's definitely not always the case.

I believe judges are supposed to place dogs in order of merit but are supposed to withhold prizes if there is lack of merit.  Withholding awards is fairly common abroad, as often breed entries are low.  In the UK even in numerically small breeds there should be enough depth of quality to cover the stud book qualifying awards.

Crufts qualification is not about quality but about limiting the entry for the show.