Hi i am not after a controversial topic here, so please a sympathetic ear.

A puppy i sold died of bloat, he was overfed accidentally (ate the other dogs food) i dont know to much of the details of the other happenings, and they contacted the emergency vet on there worries, described the symtoms, swollen stomach, trying to be sick but couldnt etc and his breed, and the vet said he has eaten too much dinner etc dont worry. Sadly he died in the night, the vets confirmed it was bloat. He was still under the 6 weeks free insurance that came with him when i sold him.

      I was under the impression that the 6 weeks covered everything, illness, injury and accident. The insurance company will not pay out, to cover his purchase price, because they dont cover for illness only for accident. Is bloat classed as an illness?, or is it an accident the dog being over fed etc. Is there any liability on the vets behalf? for dismissing there worries and saying everything will be ok.

Also what accidents are likely to happen to a puppy from 8 weeks of age when for 4 weeks out of 6 it is not allowed out of its own house and gardens for vaccination reasons. What is actually classed as an accident. My heart goes out to the family as my own family were distraught as he was the last to leave, we were all very upset. They lost another dog just before christmas and then him, their remaining dog is heartbroken having no playmates, she has been poorly and is very lonely.

They said they wished they had have rang me, as i would have told them to get to the vets asap. He was sold with info about bloat. That green slip isnt worth the paper it is written on, i hope that i have informed some people that may not have known this like myself. Also that if i sell any puppies again i will advise that they get their own insurance as that i pointless.

Louise

I'm so sorry to hear about this. :-( What a dreadful thing to happen, and something I would have been sure was covered. Which insurance company was it? Perhaps other breeders should check the small print.

>Also what accidents are likely to happen to a puppy from 8 weeks of age

The owners can drop them, or step on them; they can chew things and get injured; they can fall downstairs; they can escape from the garden; they could get injured by another dog, or a cat ... the list goes on and on.

I gathered it was the Kennel Club from the post - very surprised that they won't pay out for this as I've found them to be great.

Suppose so with the accidents yes, It was the 6 weeks free insurance you get with the kennel club and the papers.

Sadly I suppose the KC classes bloat as an illness or disease and not an accident, so thats why they wont pay up, never mind that the bloat was caused by an accident if you see what I mean...

I'd just like to say...I had to start the 6 wks free ins. myself when I got him home? would he already have had 6 wks ins. from the breeder too?

no its two and the same the insurance you start when you get home but from the date of when i sold him

Just looked at the policy - it does seem that the argument is going to be whether bloat (in this case) could be classed as an accident rather than an illness. They do cover treatment for illness but won't cover any amount if the dog dies from that illness (I think).

Their definitions:

Accident: A sudden or unforeseen incident resulting in injury.
Illness: Physical disease, sickness, infection or failure which is not caused by injury.

Thanx for explaining Louise :)

I think most insurance companies these days will use loopholes to try and quibble to get out of paying or at least make you wait. The thing is that most of us don't understand the ins and outs and thats where they get us - we think we're insured when we aren't...:(
When my insurance ended I went elsewhere and had the purchase price payout as an extra...

I would ask someone like a solicitor to look at the policy wording to make sure

I have googled and found some deinitions of bloat.  e.g. life-threatening condition....., This is a fatal disease.....,  Canine bloat, or gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV), is the number-one cause of death for several large and giant breeds.  If this painful disorder is not treated within one to two hours, it is life-threatening....,

This link gies a very good overview: http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

It seems to be seen as a disease/c0onditon in most descriptions.

we got the 6 weeks free with out pup last year and decided to continue on with it at that time, at 10 weeks our puppy needed a heart operation costing over £4000, they would not pay out for that either, we are now petplan unlimited.

I do admit that I have never been happy that anyone purchasing a pup from me, has to activate the KC insurance.  I always give 6 weeks free Petplan when pups leave home, and activate before the new owner leaves with the pup.  If they then choose to go on and take the KC insurance, that's up to them.

Ditto.

Which I suspect is one reason I have so many pups still registered in my name (last I looked it was 49) where the owners don't transfer them, as that is one of the rules with the KC Insurance, that the pup is transfered into new owners name.

Same type of thing happened with my mothers bulldog puppy, Kc papers werent back from kennel club when she went and picked him up from the breeders.
In the mean time he had a bump and popped a cherry eye.  When she then recieved the kc papers 1 week after it happened she contacted the kennel club,
told them what had happened, when she had purchased the puppy, could she claim for the op that she had just had done and they said no as even though
she had purchased him 4 weeks before the papers were recieved now is when the insurance would start.
NOT FROM THE PURCHASED DATE.  " BEWARE OF THIS " clause

Kodie

How very tragic and heartfelt sympathy to you. I was made aware last year of a pup being sold at 7 weeks with it's petplan insurance. It broke it's leg and was not covered as the insurance only started at 8 weeks. I spoke with our vet who was offering petplan insurance from 6 weeks of age to no doubt cater for the unscrupulous people that sell pups before 6 weeks old, but he advised that the said puppy (be it mongrel, puppy farmed etc) had to have a full veterinary check and he had to sign documentation before the insurance was valid. I had a litter at the time and the first pup was going at 7.5 weeks, I rang petplan to query this and it was correct so I put the owners off till the pup was exactly 8 weeks.

That is so sad, how awful for the owners and you :(

Personally, I would be getting back in touch with the vets. Bloat & over-eating can appear very similar, it is just not worth the risk to put it down to over-eating via a phone call. My vets would always rather err on the side of caution (and they don't sting you for it either).

My sister made the mistake of putting off insurance untill her pup had finished all it's jabs (she never had the 6 weeks free as her Boxer is unregistered). At 9 weeks old the cat took a swipe at the pup (Pip the boxer :) ), even though just a tiny scratch was visable on the eye, Pip was taken strait to the vets. But despite antibiotics, the scratch introduced an infection into the eye, swelling within the eyeball (from the infection), caused irreparable damge and resulted in Pip having to have her eye removed at about 10 weeks old :(

Unfortunately we had a pup last summer who died 2 weeks after we got her,:-( she was 9 1/2 weeks old. We think she ate something but we don't know. We were covered by Petplan 6 weeks free insurance and we just had to get a letter from the vet to say he'd seen the body and we got the full purchase price.

In Response to Floradora

This from Petplans website:http://www.petplan.co.uk/contactus/press/New-from-Petplan-Instant-Puppy-010807.asp

Instant Puppy Policies
In April 2007, Petplan improved its Instant Puppy Policies. The free cover notes can now be issued to owners of puppies aged 6 weeks to one year old.

I had no problem issuign them from just under 8 weeks last year.

After teh new breeding act came in it was raised to 8 weeks because of the commercial breeders, but was soon changed.

At the time I used Pinnacle cover notes.  The KC ones also covered from date of sale before 8 weeks.

In response to Brainless. Thanks for the link but I am sure this is misleading for breeders as the puppy policies issued at 6 weeks of age can only be issued by a veterinary surgeon (petplan). I will double check today but as it stood early last year they would not cover the pup with the broken leg on the breeders issued insurance as he was given it just under the pups 8 week birthday. I did check last year and was told this was correct but will check again later today with petplan and advise.

Well when I rang and checked it was OK, so I would take what is written on the puppy policies.

So the Kc is rubbish then, should i for future reference, get phanplets from petplan for the insurance to go with the puppy? Also if i buy a puppy myself get insurance from the day he is in my possession?

In reply to Brainless, Thanks for that I was just about to call them, they have obviously changed from last year. In response to Louiseddb, pet plan policies are set up by the breeder and are active from the moment you leave the breeders home. The KC insuurance kicks in when the new owner transfers the pup into their name, with a new puppy it may be the last thing on their mind with all the excitement to sign,pay and return the document. I have tried a few different insurance policies when giving out the pups and have found that petplans are the best so far. The KC insurance have been taken over by a company called Agria and I shall find out more tomorrow when I go to the stand.

>The KC insuurance kicks in when the new owner transfers the pup into their name,

I know it was several years ago, but with my last litter I (as the breeder) had to ring the KC Insurance when each pup was just about to leave to activate the cover note myself. Does that not happen any more?

So then in my mothers case "see earlier posting " because she didnt have the kc paperwork to activate the insurance on the purchase day,
would the breeder be liable to pay the vets fees she has incurred as the puppy was advertised on here as  "sold with 6 weeks free insurance ".
As if she had known he had no insurance she would have put one in place straight away.

Kodie

In reply to JG, when I had a litter last year you as a breeder attach a form to the kc document, you have to fill details in of dogs pet name, date of purchase etc and the new owner fills in the rest and sends off with the KC reg. When I bought a pup in 18 months ago, it was the same then and I had the 6 weeks insurance activated when my new reg came back even though I did not fill in any form. Unless it has changed since last May there was no facility I am aware of to ring up and activate.
In response to Kodie, I think the breeder should have made the owner aware that they had to send documentation off to get the 6 weeks insurance. With the regard to the breeder I doubt very much if the pup had an accident the breeder would not be liable as the pup had 6 weeks insurance albeit she should have explained that the responsibility then lay with the new owner to activate the cover. I think this is a moral issue rather than a miss-selling argument.

> I suspect is one reason I have so many pups still registered in my name (last I looked it was 49)

Smiling at the thought of 49, as I know you don't kennel them.  Imagine!  49 running round the house!!!!!

would be very cosy indeed.