I'd just like to say hello to you all, i've been reading a few posts and the answers all seem to be from friendly responsible and helpful people, i joined as a member today and i hope someone can help me.
I have two labs, a chocolate bitch and a yellow dog. i would like to start breeding with them at the end of this year and would be grateful for any information that any one with experience is willing to give me. I also have a few questions so if any one can help me please email me at babyflannel29@aol.com i look forward to hearing from anyone and thank you.

Good to have you aboard, first things first, join a Labrador club or socitey (we can give you phone numbers if you need) have both your dogs eye tested and hip scored and any other test suggested by the club or your breeders. Ask your breeder(s) about the compatability of the 2 dogs you own and if you are advised that you should not mate them look for a suitable stud for your bitch check it has been tested as nessesary & the results are good. Be sure you have the space and time to rear the litter and to take any of the puppies back should the need occur at any time during their lives. Make sure you will be able to find good homes for them, if posible before the pups are born & that you have enough funds for the extra your bitch will need and the rearing of the pups and any vets bills. Are your Labs working or show, it will not matter which the above applies to both types. Labradors are one of the most popular breeds but is still important that you only consider having pups if you can produce really good pups, so it would be best to take advice as to if your animials are worthy of breeding. All the best, hope we can help, hear from you soon. Jackie H

Hello,please let me advise you that the biggest no no in breeding Labs is to put chocolate to yellow it will be a disaster,the pigment and colour will be bad yellow eyes being major one please re think your plan.
Also do you know for a fact they are good specimens of the breed and have you had the health screening done.Puppy buyers nowadays are asking for pups from hip scored and eye tested parents.

Hello,

I was just reading the board with interest. What do you mean when you all talk about 'scoring hips'?

It sounds hideous but I'm sure it can't be!

: ) Julie

Julie :) Hip Scoring: the dog is sedated by the vet and xrays are taken of the hips. The plates are then sent to the BVA (British veterinary association) where experts look at the plates and apparantly draw a line at certain angles and come up with a score from 0 to 100 the lower the score the better the hips ie: 0.0. would be perfect but there are'nt many 0.0 hips in labs any score is arrived at by adding the two together ie: one hip 8 one hip 5 added together 13 would give a total score of 13 which would be ok,the national highest average score acceptablefor labrador is 16 and is acceptable over this score would be considered not suitable for breeding.

NO NO, NO, NEVER mate chocolate to yellow, poor pigment etc... bad idea, also health issues need to be addressed as others have said.
Dawn.

Thanks to you all that gave a reply. I didnt realise it was such a bad thing to cross choc and yellow. I plan to get the hips eyes and elbows of both my dogs done but wanted to wait until her season is over - only another week of the whining to go ;-) - i certainly havent gone into wanting to breed lightly and i believe that now is the right time. I would be grateful if anyone has any addresses for the labrador clubs as i would like to enrol. i think my yellow boy is gorgeous and i would love to stud him if the BVA results are good but will i get anywhere if i dont show him ? His pedigree is excellent and there are many SH CH in the line as with the bitch. I'd also like to understand a little more about the genetics side of it if anyone knows anything.
The choc bitch has a lot of black in her line so what color would i be best crossing her with ?
Thanks again, flannel

Just one more question.............is it be the combined total of both dogs breeding or the total of one dogs hip score that you go by ?

Hi
One dogs hip score is what you take, i.e 6:4 or whatever scores 10, anything scoring less than 20 combined I would say is suitable for breeding, but obviously the lower the score the better.
Re choc bitch. Choc x black is best, produces darker pigment/eyes, I hate to see pink pigment around a chocs eyes and light orange/yellow eyes, YUK!! if she is out of black x choc mating herself, then mating her to a choc would be ok this time.

Re Yellow dog. Why not show him if you think he is that good?, or get in touch with exhibitors to seek their opinion, remember however our dogs look WE think they are stunning. Does he meet the required standard in type, temperament, conformation and movement? all should be considered if you want to do this properly, same goes for your bitch.

Hope I don't seem harsh, but you seem to be the type of person that DOES want to do this right, so I thought I would try to help you get it right. Lastly do you really want to breed more Labradors? they are incredibly over bred in my opinion, and rescue has an inormous task in re-homing unwanted ones, would you be prepared to take back any you bred that may need re-homing for whatever reason? have you facilities to keep a litter of puppies that may not sell quickly? food for thought.
Good luck
Dawn.

Labrador average hip score is a total of 16. I would not breed with a score much higher than that.

Regards, John

hi and welcome to the board, I am going to see a litter of pups on sunday with a view to buying one of the chocolate ones, the owner told me the mother is yellow lab, and the father is a black the mother this resulted in the litter being some black and some chocolate but none yellow. so does this mean that one of the pups grandparents must have been chocolate?

Cazmar, I hope you didn't find this litter in the yellow paper or at Dogs R Us. If so, it would be worth waiting for a well bred litter from a knowledgable breeder.
My Mum was always telling me that "Patience is a virtue"!
When you're looking at a litter make sure that the breeders are some how involved with the dog world. For instance, they may belong to their breed club, do agility, show their dogs or in the case of labs, maybe work them. It will show some level of commitment and experience of the dog world and they will be in a better position to give you support and answer any questions that you may have after you have bought your pup, than someone who just "fancies having a litter" or is just producing puppies because they happen to have a dog and a bitch.
Good luck in your search.

Hi Dawn B, thanks for your reply, i did a lot of searching to find my dogs and my choc bitch has got a very dark coat, dark brown nose and darkish eyes - no pink on her whatsoever. The yellow dog is very pale on the underside and darker across his back and ears and big dark rings around his eyes but he has a slightly pale nose. Are you a lab breeder ? I do want to do this properly which is why ill take all information on board and probably not cross them. I dont think youre harsh, just honest. I would say the same thing to anyone, having dogs is not just a fun thing, its a lot of hard work too. My bitch has a bit of working in her but the dog is pure show, dont know if it means anything in the dog world but hes from Rocheby and Poolstead stock. Obviously i dont want to mess the lines up but i really would like to take this seriously and make a go of it.
His parents hip scores were 5-4 and 5-7 and her parents were 5-3 and 4-1 which i thought was good.
And yes i would definitely take them back for any reason because its usually the owners that cant cope not the dogs ! Although i would carefully screen any new owners. I was just worried that no one would want to use him as stud if he wasnt shown. I spoke to my vet and he said that hip scoring was NOT a guarantee that you'd get good pups anyway, but its still a must to have it done. I think the reason labs are overbred is because people dont do their homework properly and breed for the sake of it without getting the medical side sorted, which i think is most stupid and cruel. I went to see a litter of pups not long ago and the parents hip scores totaled a massive 120 !!!!! How can anyone justify their stock at that level ? People also need to be very careful because a good scam is the breeders say they will apply for the paperwork after the pup has been sold - to save time wasting and then its too late for the new owners of a very risky puppy. People going to view litters need to make a decision with their heads and not worry about the doleful puppy eyes they see ! I know that seems heartless but this is why there are too many lab litters. flannel

Hi Flannel.
I don't breed Labs, but have owned them, showed them, worked with probably one of the most successfull show kennels in this country and did Lab rescue for several years. I know the lines you speak of and are well known in the show ring. If you do mate your bitch ( now obviously not to your dog!) how about seeking advice from the person that bred her? was she a breeder/exhibitor? alternativley e-mail me privately and I will try to help you in finding a suitable stud dog, providing your bitch scores favourably, and all other health tests are passed. Labs do suffer from several health problems and I can honestly say I seem to see more and more in the kennels. I board a dog, who has severe hip dysplasia, and dreadful Osteochrondrosis Dessicans, the poor dog leans on the wall to take weight from his affected limbs, he is just over 12mths old and came from a very reputable breeder/exhibitor. so your vet is right in saying there is no guarantee, but scoring is everything you can do to ensure you have bred healthy pups.

Re using your dog at stud, why? he will be perfectly happy as he is and don't forget it could make him much more difficult to live with in the future.
Good luck in your decision.
Dawn.

Hi BF, agree with Dawn & you vet. Hip scoring is no guarantee but its the best we have at the moment. Take advice from your dogs breeder or the the breeders in her pedigree.
Christine2

Flannel just a tip dont say crossing ok as it sounds like a mistake say breeding or mating:) if you mate her better with black or choc but not choc from a yellow parent this could also produce bad pigment.

A caution to the person (sorry cant remember whilst typing) who is looking at choc pups from a yellow parent I honestly wouldnt have one of these as the breeder should known not to put yellow to choc if they are a knowledgeable breeder.
Just A little tip no offense inteneded good luck :) :)

I agree with Mattie, if a genuine Labrador breeder, concerned with the breeds welfare, mated choc to yellow on purpose, then they should not be breeding at all !!
Dawn.

I read that post also and thought the same after reading all of your advise but they may still buy it. How do we incourage people anymore to be pacient. I guess some are like grown up children.

Pam

Interesting thread, as I don't breed Labradors I did not know that there were rules and difficulties in breeding across the colour range, suppose if I had thought about it I may have but I didn't even consider it. However when I replied to the original post I suggested that they joined a breed club, had this have been done and advice sort the poster would have been adviced about the colour question and no doubt helped with research into their dogs backgrounds. Point is perhaps we should add this advice to all who ask advice about breeding. It could also be of help for someone who knows the breed they want but have not yet aquired a puppy, joining a breed club and attending their events would no doubt help in their search. Jackie H