i wanted to know if there are any rules stating that you are not allowed to show a bitch if she is in season? i must stress this is not relating to myself, i have a friend who knows somebody who is supposed to be going to crufts with her bitch, and the owner has mentioned that she thinks she will be in season at the time, but has made no mention of not going. i really do not want to start a debate, and i know it is very frowned upon, but i just wanted to know if there are any rules to say she cant go?

becky x x

No, there are no rules to say she can't exhibit a bitch in season.

Debs

I would imagine there would be for obedience though?????  I know here at least, if a bitch is in season they arent allowed to be trialed in obedience. 

But as far as showing a dog in conformation, isnt that why you do it?  To prove your dog is of standard, and to get an unbiased opinion towards your breeding stock? 

thanks, i hope the lady doesnt take her if she does happen to come into season, but somehow i think she still would unfortunately. i think there should be a rule against it personally

becky x

There's no rule that says you can't take an 'in season' bitch but she will be frowned upon by others. Depending on what day the bitch is on will make all the difference to the behaviour of males (and other bitches come to that) Some stud dogs might think they are about to do their 'duty' and the owners of said dogs will not be amused at all.  JMO
If she does take her she should keep her on the bench and only take her off for toileting and showing, and walk very fast ;)

I know some people will argue, and maybe lots have done it in the past and got away with it, but personally I wouldn't take mine, not even on day two, because I think they are more susceptable to germs being sniffed by other dogs or even licked if they got close enough!!

i think its very unfair of people who do this because it upsets so many other dogs whos owners have paid the same amount to enter so please ask your friend to make this person see sense and keep there bitch at home if she comes into season.

Newf2 - "I really do not want to start a debate"

i think there should be a rule against it personally

Could be very difficult to police though. :) Last year one of my bitches was due in season in March. I checked her carefully every single day in the morning and evening. Not a hint of blood OR discharge. The same was true for the day of Crufts. Absolutely no blood, no swelling. Went off to Crufts, took her in the ring, then later in the day she started licking herself on the bench. Yes she was in season! Luckily I had a fabric cage with me so quickly popped her in it, and she was finished with the ring anyway. (The hard part was getting her out at the end of the day!! Much too large to carry.) But I had NO way of knowing she'd come in during the day -she could have come in two weeks later and it would still have been on time.

Just a thought...but why should bitches be penalised for being in season? It is nature & until the KC have a no bitches in season rule then I guess bitches are entitled to be shown. Perhaps that is why the males are in the ring before bitches!?

>why should bitches be penalised for being in season?

Why should dogs be penalised because someone is wilfully distracting them? People gripe (rightly) about bits of bait being thrown around, and squeaky toys distracting them - how much more distracting is the scent of an in-season bitch?

Apart from the appalling poor sportsmanship (and I've shown bitches as well as a dog, and had to stay at home when a season's clashed with a show, so it's not sour grapes!) an in-season bitch is often not feeling her best, so is unlikely to perform as well as she could, and there is an increased risk of infection with an open cervix, especially when she squats to wee where other dogs have been.

Perhaps that is why the males are in the ring before bitches!?

It doesn't help when there is more than one breed in one ring though.  If you happen to be second, third or even fourth in the ring and there are blood spots on the floor it's not very easy to get a male dog to concentrate.  Plus there are the times when the dogs are on the benches/grooming areas and being exercised.

I'm of the firm opinion that bitches in season should be left at home.  It's only a show after all.  I've shown many many bitches and had to miss out on some really good judges when trying to campaign a bitch to it's title or top dog in it's breed.  It's a shame but something I feel we, as bitch owners, should learn to live with.

Debs

Maybe it would help if you got yru entry fee's back for dogs that are absent.

Maybe it would help if you got your entry fee's back for dogs that are absent.  Might even increase entries as in coated breeds you might enter several and take the ones in best coat at the time rather than enter and then find your wasting your time taking that one while it's kennel mate looks great.  Or as with Manchester I didn't enter my girl as she had been mated, but missed.  the judge has given her BP and a class before so worth taking, but I hadn't entered.

MarianneB, i think in ur circumstance, it was unavoidable, and i understand that it may be difficult to police, but i dont think that people (like my friends friend) should be able to go if they KNOW their bitch is in season. i suppose it comes down to common decency. i dont even show myself, but i can fully appreciate how owners of male dogs would feel. also, if i did show, and i had a bitch in season, i wouldnt want to take her anyway, for her sake.

becky x

Okay - so we have got a debate going!

i have bitches and dogs and would never show a bitch in season, the argument of keeping them to their bench dosent hold water either as the bitch in question could easily be benched with a male on either side!! this causes much stress to the males and also the bitch who can feel very threatened by being chained to a bench with no escape from the randy males on either side. Sorry but think it par for the course with bitches when they in season leave them at home!!!!!!!!!!

O.K. Debate - if there is no rule against it then why not? The dogs have advantage of being rested before the the challenge, why have even more disandvantages for the bitches? Personally speaking my bitches are in far better coat when in season - there coats go off about 6 weeks after seasons. 

> why have even more disandvantages for the bitches?

because its one of things you know will be an issue when you pick a bitch over a dog. i don't show myself but owuld like to in the future and i imagine its a nightmare for dog owners, distractions, getting over excited, god forbid it might even start fights. plus as people have mentioned its not that safe for the bitch.

> Personally speaking my bitches are in far better coat when in season

surely this is not the norm? if so i;ve abnormal dogs...my bitches have seasons much like a female human (throws huffs, gets puffy looking and likes to mope, sure they;d ask for a chick flick if they could lol)

I only show bitches, and I've lost entry fees on a number of occasions because of seasons - sod's law you enter them they come in, you don't enter them they don't -
If only they could pass a rule that if you have entered and your girl comes into season, with a vets letter of confirmation, you could get a refund ?
And my girls lose their coats before a season, and go off food and generally look really fed up :(

> surely this is not the norm? if so i;ve abnormal dogs...my bitches have seasons much like a female human (throws huffs, gets puffy looking and likes to mope, sure they;d ask for a chick flick if they could lol)

As far as coat goes bitches that have regular 6 month or so gaps in their seasons will loose their coats about two months before a season so be in their best coat while in season.

I have had girls with 4 monthly seasons ans then the coat and seasons are not aligned in this way, but once they are cycling 6 or more monthly they nearly always start to loose coat two months before the start of a season.

Mine if they are going to be moody are moody a few weeks after a season, so it can be very hard to find a time when they are in coat, not in season or showing post season/phantom symptoms.

Remember there will always be someone who shows an in season bitch whilst there are no rules against it. There are some dog owners who say they prefer an in season bitch around "keeps my boy on his toes". My bitches "throw huffs" after seasons, have phantoms etc. The boys are just as likely to be put off when the girls are due and a few weeks after they have finished seasons.
There is nothing that will stop owners from showing bitches in season.

>Remember there will always be someone who shows an in season bitch whilst there are no rules against it<

Yes and they will always be found out and frowned upon :(
Personally it doesn't bother me, like I said I only show girls myself, but I would never take the risk to my girls' health by showing her in season.

In our breed, bitches usually look their best coming into, and in season, afterwards they can lose coat colour and texture for a few months, this would leave very little time for showing if they were only shown out of season.  I really don't see why owners of bitches should be penalised for having a bitch, when the dog is in season and ready for action all year round?  As has already been said, we are showing BREEDING STOCK, this means that they are capable of breeding.

Maybe dogs and bitches should be shown on different days?  or at different shows?  I've lost count of the times a dog has made a right nuisance of himself only to be knowingly - yours must be coming into season, when in fact she is no where near :(  

"Frowned upon" - Why? It is perfectly natural and there is NO RULE against it. I have entire dogs and bitches, if I enter a show why should I lose the best part of £100 because my bitch has just come into season? Why should I lose the chance of showing a bitch that a particular judge has liked enough to give a RCC to when I may not get that chance under that judge again?

MarianneB, i think in ur circumstance, it was unavoidable, and i understand that it may be difficult to police, but i dont think that people (like my friends friend) should be able to go if they KNOW their bitch is in season.

My point was it would be impossible to prove if anyone knew in advance or not. :)

Fillis -  It doesn't bother me like I said earlier it was JMO (just my opinion) to which, like you, I am entitled to. If you want to show her in season, then show her.

As far as coat goes bitches that have regular 6 month or so gaps in their seasons will loose their coats about two months before a season so be in their best coat while in season

I can't do quotes properly, but this is in response to brainless.  I've heard that many times, but never ever experienced it with my GSD bitches.  They've always looked awful (coat wise) whilst in season.  Any other GSD owners experienced this?

I had an experience similar to Mariannes, with a young bitch.  We took her to an open show, she wasn't looking her best, but we had another Shepherd entered and thought we'd take this girl as well.  She was due in season, but we'd checked the night before and numerous times on the morning of the show.  She won BOB, then I wanted to take her home, because I really didn't like the way she looked anyway.  I was talked into staying with her...and I'm glad I was because she went BIS and qualified, but when we stopped on the way home to let the dogs out for a wee, we noticed she'd come in.  There were a few dogs and bitches that day, interested in her, even though there was nothing showing.

It's too late for me to edit my post now.  I wanted to add, I felt most uncomfortable about it all, even though nobody knew!

I have both bitches and dogs and would never show a bitch in season. Each to their own but in my mind I just feel it is wrong.

All my girls come in every 6 months ,give or take a week or so. And all of them have their season just as they are coming back into coat so i suppose it works out a bit better for me that they won't be in the ring anyway because they aren't in full coat. To lose another 3 weeks when they are in full coat must be a nightmare when they are only in the showring for 2 or 3 months at a time anyway because of the frequency of the seasons.
mel.

I don't think there's a rule, but I wouldn't do it, just because I have seen how my boy acts if there's a bitch around, and it's just not fair on the males. But yes, it can be hard to tell - once my girl came in 2 days after a show, so even then some males would pick up on the rising hormones and be distracted. Just have to take the rough with the smooth when showing!

Same thing happened to me. My bitches (bar one) are a bit hit and miss with their seasons so I can't always tell when they are due in for sure. My bitch was getting an awful lot of attention from the males when at Crufts so I kept checking her but nothing there. The very next day she was in season, now I couldn't help upsetting some of the males but I did keep moving her away when I saw that some were attracted to her.

My boy gets all excited whenever he sees bitch of his breed whether they are in season or not (he thinks they are for one thing only ;) ), if at a champ show and in separate rings (we usually have 2 judges) I dont see a problem with bitches being in season, as long as they arent flaunted around the dog ring   it its the open shows when the sexes are mixed that I struggle keeping his head still but then he is like that whether the b#tch is in season or not !!

My girls have silent heats, sometimes no swelling or anything.  I dont have males around to tell me that they are in either.  I dont know until I get to the show sometimes that my bitch is in.  How can I be penalized for that?

It isnt fair to say, because you got a bitch, you cant show her at this time.  I would never be able to enter with one of my girls, since I have a hard time (without smears and guess work - and then taking her to stud, and her not being in) knowing whether she is in or not.  I have a guesstimate as to when, but seasons can happen anywheres from 4 months apart to a year and a half between each one.

I do think owners of bitches should take precautions, so when I show my bitches, they are from van to ring, then from the ring to the van.  We only have a couple benched shows in the whole year, and I dont go to those. 

I have both bitches and a dog. I have never shown a bitch in season. I've missed Crufts 2 years running with a bitch because she decided that it was her time ;-) There is no way that I would attempt to take a bitch in season in the car with my male - I don't think I would get very far without having to stop, do you? :-D

Dill, as to showing them on separate days I hope you didn't mean it? I can only just manage the petrol costs for one day, without having to travel several hundred miles twice, just to let a judge decide that (s)he liked one, but not the other. I'd rather leave her at home.

LindyLou,

Tongue firmly in cheek LOL

I'm sick of being told my Bitch is ....  in season, coming into season, thinking of coming into season, having a silent season.  By people with dogs who are just a pain.

On the very few occasions I have taken an in-season bitch to a show she was ignored by all dogs - even those who would normally pester her   I had taken extreme precautions and they definately worked ;)  but the bitch was never at the point of 'standing' - I don't think any precautions would work at that point.  The shows were open air NOT indoors, I wouldn't take an in-season bitch to an open show either.  I don't have much choice as to which shows I can enter, there are only about 6 a year, so to miss these shows would mean never showing a really good bitch.

When one enters a dog show, one does so weeks (if not months) in advance.    And bitches coming into season is not an exact science, so owners of bitches that are shown have to spend exactly the same amount of money in advance as do the owners of dogs.

I have never knowingly taken an in-season bitch to a show.  I have taken bitches that are just "suggesting" that they might come into season within the next week to a show, and at the same time I have left at home bitches showing the same symptons because they are such awful flirts - and then they've not come into season for another couple of weeks or so!

Until the day comes that an owner can phone a show secretary and say "my bitch is in season, please return my entry fee" then it is quite legitimate for bitches to be shown at any time.   

Of course, "a bitch on heat in the previous class/in his class" is a wonderful excuse for a dog's inability to behave in a ring :)

Margot

I agree entirely, Dill - My girls are constantly pestered - in season or not, and the boys owners seem to think they are doing me a favour by telling me that they are about to come in. (Often, they are NOT!) If we take our girls out of the ring when they are coming in, in season, after (out of coat) and then they miss at least 6 months due to having a litter, it doesnt give us many shows does it? I have taken in season bitches to shows (only champ shows) and with proper care and attention, none of the males have been any the wiser. It is down to the precautions you are prepared to take and not parading them up and down in front of other dogs. I would NEVER take one to a mixed sex class, but know people do and that is their choice.

Dill, I thought it was tongue in cheek, but just wanted to make sure LOL. Some people would actually be happy with it that way ;-)

I suppose if my bitch was winning every class she was in, or winning top honours nearly every time out I might have a different view, but I doubt it. I have a usually nice placid male, but give him a whiff of the lovely perfume and he can be a nightmare. He hasn't been used yet, so I can't say that he knows what it's all about. :-D Maybe that's his problem, he wants to know ;-) We had a show last year where there were 2 bitches in season in our breed, as well as at least 1 in the next ring :-( This was an indoor Champ show where there wasn't much room for manouvering. TBH they did try to keep the bitches away from other dogs, but it's still a nightmare.

It seems like there are many valid reasons why showing an in season bitch would be frowned upon:  apart from the obvious distraction to other exhibitors' male dogs, there's the fact that the bitch herself will not be feeling wonderful.  Some bitches cope better than others but in all the bitches of different breeds that I've had over the years I can honestly say that showing thm when in season has never crossed my mind, partly due to them feeling 'delicate'.  I just wouldn't expect a sparkling performance from them.

On the other hand I can only think of one reason to show an in season bitch:  coloured ribbon and bits of cardboard.

Debs

It must be very hard too especially considering how hard it is to qualify for Crufts in the first place. It's some peoples dream of showing their dog at Crufts!!!!   It is totaly bad luck if their bitch just happens to come into season at the worst time and it needs to be weighed up whether to go or not.

It can be very frustrating.  My first show bitch missed her first Crufts because she was in season.  I would love to have taken her - she was never down during her seasons - but it wouldn't have been fair on the other exhibitors.  Even some bitches can be put off by an in-season bitch being around.

Just read this thread.
I show dogs and bitches.

I think at open shows were there is often not much room and dogs and bitches are shown together in the same ring, I would never take a bitch in season. I have to add I do not allow other peoples dogs to sniff mine let alone lick them anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have once, when first showing shown a bitch in season at a champ show, that day she showed the best she ever did, she is now retired.

Dogs - expecially young once are distracted easily and often are a pain - peeing up legs. My dogs know when a human is having a period and pester them, would you sugest I don't go. Lol
I have to say my dog performs at his best if a bitch nearby is in season. ;-)

My first show bitch missed her first Crufts because she was in season.  I would love to have taken her

Exactly Ridgielover!

The bitch I'm currently showing has never been to Crufts!  The first year the judge didn't suit.  The second year she was in season and I was SO disappointed that I couldn't take her.  I had a good idea that the judge might have liked her and this was borne out on the day when she gave my bitch's litter sister a class and her dam the Bitch CC.  This year she'll miss out again as I'm judging.

It IS a pain when they come into season but this is all part and parcel of showing a bitch.

Debs

I personally wouldn't want to take any of mine if they were in season, beacuse it affects their mood and therefore their general demeanor. I can imagine in some breeds it may affect their appearance, mine being hairy with bums well covered it's not obvious, but I guess in some breeds it would be difficult to hide??? But I also know that it can be a while before a girl shows her season, and that must be hard to predict, especially when entering months in advance, as has been pointed out. I think as well, it's wise to consider whether anyone with a bitch in season is looking to mate her on that season...the last open show I went to, neither bitch in season, and one of them came down with Kennel cough a few days later - I'm not sure of the ramifications of this if one had mated a girl and then she became ill??? I'm sure someone here could put my mind at rest on that one, I'm probably over-thinking the issue...... 

"the last open show I went to, neither bitch in season, and one of them came down with Kennel cough a few days later - I'm not sure of the ramifications of this if one had mated a girl and then she became ill??? I'm sure someone here could put my mind at rest on that one, I'm probably over-thinking the issue......  "

Not at all, I would never show an in season bitch I was planning to mate on that season. (or any other in season bitch) Not worth the risk of her catching something at the show. Here in Sweden in season bitches are shown. There is no rule against it, and it's not really frowned upon either. It's just taken for granted that you keep your bitch out of the way as much as possible. My breed is always the only one in the ring, so no males after us. At least not on that day. This of course doesn't apply to all breeds.

Personally, I don't show my girls when they are in season. They feel vulnerable, I think, at a show where they have to be so close to other dogs. Don't forget a in heat bitch can feel threatened by other bitches, as well as by over amourous males ;-)
On the continent I know some countries have rules against showing in season bitches. Can't really see how this is being controlled, though.

> On the continent I know some countries have rules against showing in season bitches. Can't really see how this is being controlled, though.

When I went to the World Show the Vetting in people checked for signs of season in the bitches, the dogs walked up a ramp to a table.

I believe this vetting in is done at most of the shows in countries like Holland Belgium etc.  All dogs are checked for entirety/season and health before being allowed into the show.

Soli -  The bitch I'm currently showing has never been to Crufts!

We are in the same situation in that despite qualifying every year with one of our girls she's never made it yet.  However, this year she will be going - in the vetran class - as she has been spayed so we know for once she can't come into season.

I don't show mine when in season as there is always a risk of the dog catching something nasty when at a show and a bitch in season is far more vunerable in terms of infection - why would you chance it?

Kate

I wish you could perhaps get a statement from a vet that your bitch had to miss Crufts for a season, then you could get a 'bye' for the next year, as it must be very annoying to miss Crufts! Luckily my bitch has never qualified so I haven't got that problem! :-D