hi,
can any one tell me how bite problems are inherited? i have a pup who should have a sissor bite, both his parents have sissor bites, his sire is a very succesful champion who has sired 100 or so pups all of which have perfect sissor bites, but out of the litter i got my pup from 2/6 pups were over shot, it was his dams first litter.
is it a case of recessive inheritance with both parents having the faulty gene or is it inherited another way?
i am just curious, i dont plan to breed from my pup but was wondering how and why if both parents have the faulty gene how it did not come up sooner, given that the sire has fathered many litters. the breeders of the sire have had no problems with overbites in their lines, they are well known and well respected breeders.
thanks,
kelly

Hi Kelly

I can't really answer your question but came up with some interesting information whilst looking - in no particular order -

Teeth (Spinone)
Survey into inherited diseases of Scottish Terriers
Introduction to orthodontics
Basics of Genetics (GSD)
Genetic defects in sheep

With regard as to why the sire has not fathered any other overshop pups - can you be really sure he hasn't? How does the pedigree of the mother of your pup compare to others that he has been mated to (and with his), are they very similar or very different.

Christine

hi,
thanks for the links, very intresting, 2 mentioned that the mode of inheritance was undetermined and possibly polygenic, not as straight foward as i thought. i am very sure that the sire has not had any other pups with problems. he was bred by his owners who also bred his parents. the breeder of my pup who was shocked when she discovered the problem, and went straight to them as they have been involved in the breed by many decades to ask why this had occured and they were certain he had not thrown pups with problems before, they have kept several of his progeny who have since been bred themselves. the sire is now 11 years old and has been used at stud many times over the years producing very succesful pups. his pedigree is very different to my pups dams ( no similar lines in at least 5 generations) but i am uncertain as to how the other bitches he has been mated to compare, he has also just produced his last litter being mated to a very close relative and these pups have no bite problems,
any more thoughts?
kelly

I am new to this but have been doing a bit of research myself in my own breed WHWT.

I think there are more bites out than we see or are told. if you imagine a dog has for example 6 dogs 2 possibly are shown they 2 have probably been selected. Now who is to say that any of the others don't have problem bites.

Without going into it too deeply I know of a few poor bites in some dogs both parents champs.

Who is to say whether both of the parents brothers and sisters had good bites or poor bites.

I never realised it was such a problem but it is in quite a lot of breeds.

My wee bitch I have who I have not long started showing was complimented on by a judge recently. He said " Corr I not seen a nice bite like that for a while" I was confused a bit until I started asking other WHWT people what he ment and then I found out about bites etc.

I have to say even though I bought my wee bitch to show I didn't have a clue what to look for.

I don't know about different breeds but I am told it can take up until 10months to see if the bite is good in WHWT..

interesting..

Pam

The bottom jaw of most breeds grows slower than the top so you really have to wait to find out what you've got. A correct bite as a puppy is very unlikely to be good by a year or so old, conversely what appears to be rubbish as a baby could grow into a perfect bite. That’s where the breed knowledge comes in, knowing just how much it will change.

Regards John

John, it is quite scary really especially when you think some of the prices of puppies now.

I know WHWT are not the dearest and not the cheapest but imagine buying 2 in and both dogs had bites out. The bite I believe is a major fault.

I check both my 2 dogs constantly one is 11 months and the other 5 months.

I recently got one of my older pups teeth removed as I thought it was blocking a second tooth. Luckily I noticed or it could have knocked her bite out. The vet said it would have been OK but I asked him just to pull it anyway..she didn't even notice as I stood while he done it.

Parinoid.

Pam

Pam, I am sure that your 11 month old will not change her bite now. I have had a puppy with a perfect bite at 7 months and level by 9 months. But I would think you can stop worrying about the 11 month old. In my experience a puppy at 8 weeks should not have a perfect, close scissor bite, but if you can fit an imaginary matchstick inbetween the top and bottom teeth the bite is very likely to be perfect at adulthood - with my breeding anyway, other lines may vary. My old vet used to scream "bad bite" at me with one litter I took in for vaccs, but had to eat his words when we returned with 2 of them 12 months later for boosters - they both had perfect mouths!!

WL I can't believe you have just posted I was just saying to kat I had not heard form you for ages and I was hoping you were OK..Just 30 seconds ago honestly..

Thanks that is good I think it well may be lines. Kat has just showing me Pictures of Buffy I think you amy eat your words ( Nicely) as she is really really nice. I wished she would show her.

You know what they say about the ugly ducklings..

PS glad to hear you are OK..It is not like you to be so quiet.. ( nicley also)

Pam

I am always worrying about them..

HI Pam, Yep she is a corker - never mind. I think I am going to have to give this doggy lark up if the quacks dont sort me out soon. haven't been too good lately hence my "quietness" - consultant again on Monday - I am getting pretty fed up of being ill!!

Wl Keep in touch then sometimes when yout alk to people it helps keep your mood up which in turn can help. We need you aoround for all the advice..

Take care for now..

Pam

These things seem to be very breed and even line specific. I've known Flatcoat's jaws moving at well over 2 years old but I always reckon that a Labrador's jaw is finished by around 18 months although I believe the Labrador is not fully grown until 2 years.
Usually, when changing teeth the canines are the last to go. Very often the new canines appear beside the old. If you think abut it the other teeth ate quite big and present a fair target for the new teeth to hit and push out whereas the little point of the new canine almost always seems to miss the much smaller target of the old canine. Although this happens often it's very unusual for it to cause trouble. As the new teeth come through the old ones are loosened and come away of their own accord. I must admit to being worried about "The Flower" when she was teething because of the length of time it took for them to drop but drop they eventually did and left her with a beautiful bite.

Regards, John

PS. Sorry to hear you've not been too good WL. I hope soon start to feel better.

Hi it may well be breed or line spercific to some extent but it is as others have said a question of growth recently did the seminar on construction and movement and apparently dogs grow from their tail up :D so bottom jaw is the last to stop growing.Gillian