Does anyone think they should teach money/budgeting in schools.

Given the fact that lots of people are seemingly finding it difficult to budget I wonder if this would be succesful, but given the rise of adults with "money" issues does it not seem sensible to try and get a grip and maybe teach basic money skills in schools?

Used to have it in our Home Economics lessons in the 70's.  the books were by someone called Creer????.  We learnt about mortgages, how to make a household budget, how to choose a place to live based on what your needs were re amenities etc

Does anyone think they should teach money/budgeting in schools.

It seems like a good idea but schools already struggle timewise to cover everything they are required to teach so not sure how they could manage with yet another new subject to fit in.

Parents need to start educating their children in basic life skills and not just rely on the education system to do their job for them IMHO :)

Yes I think they should.

I went to a presentation at a university yesterday and one of the things that was on the list of ways for students to budget money was a credit card for emergencies.

What worries me is a student might see a new outfit as an emergency.

I'd rather they were taught to budget the income they have rather to rely on credit.

I think parents should teach their children about budgeting  ..unless of course, they want to teach Science, Maths, English, DS, RE, Tech, ICT, PSHE, French, German, Art, History, Geography etc and then teachers can do the budgeting one ?

;) :-D :-D

> Parents need to start educating their children in basic life skills and not just rely on the education system to do their job for them IMH

VERY well said :)

Quite right Mel. In all the schools I went to, schools taught academic subjects, and domestic subjects were taught at home.

> I think parents should teach their children about budgeting  ..unless of course, they want to teach Science, Maths, English, DS, RE, Tech, ICT, PSHE, French, German, Art, History, Geography etc and then teachers can do the budgeting one ?

Surely budgeting is a much more important life skill than most of the above? Although I'm sure it could be included in PSHE (if this is what I think it is).

> I think parents should teach their children about budgeting  ..unless of course, they want to teach Science, Maths, English, DS, RE, Tech, ICT, PSHE, French, German, Art, History, Geography etc and then teachers can do the budgeting one ?

>Surely budgeting is a much more important life skill than most of the above?

Let's see. If children aren't taught the sciences, who will become the doctors? If they're not taught maths, how will they be able to budget anyway? If they're not taught history, all the mistakes of the past will be repeated. If they're not taught geography they'll a) get lost and b) have no understanding of the physical world and therefore no comprehension of waht makes our climate. Without foreign languages how do you communicate with people in other countries?

All these subjects are vital, and deep and complex. Budgeting can basically be taught in 5 minutes: write down how much money you earn, write down the cost of everything you need to buy (children can cost up sweets and comics, adults have larger commitments), and take one away from the other (there's the importance of arithmatic! ;-)). If, after you've bought all the essentials, you have money left over, you can spend half and save half. If you don't have enough money for your essentials then you have to either earn more (get a second or better job) or do without something. That's what budgeting boils down to, and doesn't need to be a separate subject at school, any more that teeth-cleaning needs to be!

Very well said!! I agree it is really a parents responsibility. There is so much more these days children seem to want.....if ours want the latest thing they have to save up for it, my eldest bought a Nintendo DS which took nearly a year to save for but at least he appreciates the value and is becoming very aware of sticking to a budget. I reckon this can easily be taught with common sense at home.

the thing is parents who teach these kinds of things to their children are becoming increasingly rare... everything from basic manners to sexual/biological education, to discapline to budgeting or even managing a home (eg, how to use a washing machine) are ignored. we can't rely on parents to teach kids this stuff so i think the education system might want to help a bit. i can't see why they don;t talk to you about mortgaes etc in home ec anymore, it would be more useful than designing and sewing a childs cushion :) i've not the first clue about mortages (granted in the current market i'll probably not have one for a very long time...) and some education on it would have been nice.

totally agree with you Astarte, looking at some of the examples parents are setting we are in trouble if they are to provide all financial guidance. 

All of the subjects taught should be relevant to life rather than taught in the abstract so people see their skills and knowledge as life skills rather than just school stuff e.g. basic mathematics is budgeting, geometry is useful for many trades like joinery, plumbing etc.  I remember a scene from the AliG film a few years ago when he is in a school teaching fractions and weight by relating it to cannabis as the young people all knew what an ounce was, an eighth etc.  Not particularly appropriate but it has to be real for people to transfer the knowledge to their own lives.  JMHI

>basic mathematics is budgeting, geometry is useful for many trades like joinery, plumbing etc.

Exactly - it's all on the curriculum already. Why spend time and money rearranging classes to teach the same thing by a different name? The school day seems to be very short nowadays anyway (judging by the local High School where there are only 5 one-hour lessons per day). To fit 'budgeting' in as a special subject would mean something else would have to be dropped. Or the day extended, of course. :)

Once all parents start to take full responsbility for their children the schools may well then be able to find the time to introduce additional subjects. But when one is spending a large amount of a lesson "policing" the behaviour of some very disruptive pupils rather than being able to continue to educate them there is never going to be the time to introduce extra subjects :(

Unfortunately a large number of parents see it as the school's responsibility to teach manners, responsible behaviour, social skills and even table manners rather than the school just expanding on these necessary skills that should have been learnt at home thus enabling the education system to concentrate on what it was originally intended for - the academic education of youngsters. Schools today are often seen as the answer for instructing children in every single aspect of living whereas parents have to take responsiblity
for instructing children in all those areas that every person needs in order to grow up into a well rounded, responsible, free thinking adult who contributes to society in a postive manner.

A child spends just over 6 hours a day in the care of a school and the rest of the 24 hours in the care of it's parents/carers. Schools are being to expected to take on more and more of the responsibilities involved in raising children while some parents are opting out of responsible parenting altogether. Parents need to do the job they are meant to do and let the schools be able to get on with the job they are designed to do :)

That puts it neatly in a nutshell, Harley.

Well said Lizzie.
I dont mind the disruption of the children that dont cope with school well (talking from experience of my son) But the ones that run riot OUTSIDE school, and take their behaviour into the class rooms are the ones I donnot like.
My kids are brought up to know right from wrong and respect adults, but Sam plays up in school if something happens he doesnt like. VBut his teacher has said he is no where near the worst in the class. And I can name the ones that are worse, and from what I can see they are as bad outside school as inside.
POarents should teach their kids disapline. Teachers should be able to spend their time teadching them the curiculem and not the disciplin!!!!
Lea :) :)

And the spelling! :-D :-D

> And the spelling!

Ok ok you got me there, but I type and my fingers work quicker than my brain!!! When I hand write I do check spelling and I do correct my kids spelling when and if needed!!!
My eldest was reading Harry Potter books at 7!!!!! and reading books aimed at adults at the age 12 1/2!!!!
Lea :)

Was joking, no offence meant. :-)

cocopop, I thought you were!!!! was just playing devils advocate!!!! LMAO
Can you imagine how many of us would pass English if they looked at our spellings!!!!!!!
Lea :)

LOL :-D

In our church housegroup, we are currently using the resources provide by "The Money Revolution" - there is a website, hand-books, downloads for small groups (5 sessions) and for presentations. This is from a Christian viewpoint, the handbook has a forward from John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York. However it covers budgeting, saving, insurance, giving etc etc. Our group ranges from two of us oldies, 60 somethings but is mostly young mums. We are all finding it extremely valuable, whatever our current financial situation, to take time out to consider these issues again.
So, thinking about schools, I wouldn't have thought it needed to be a separate subject, but could be incorporated as part of say personal & social education lessons, perhaps?

I thought it would still be part of Home Economics (note the second word) as it was in my day.  Can anyone confirm that this side of the subject is no longer taught?

I think it sad that from 18 onwards our youngsters are encouraged to consider getting into debt rather than saving.

Of course basic budgeting has to be taught by parents but the modern financial World is a mystery to may of us.

The mi-selling of Endowment Mortgages in the boom years of the 80's is proof of that, many people never really understanding their investments were not 'safe'.  We now have equity schemes for the over 50's to release money for the older person from the value of their homes, but some of these are not what they seem.

Insurance and Pensions are another.  Seeing as the government are telling people the state pension just won't cut ti and you need to make provision, there is so much room to be fleeced if products are not understood.

I know a lot of people my age who don't really understand that a 25 year repayment mortgage at 5% per annum actually means your paying 125% over the term.

How many people who take on these loans to cover all their debts that are meant to reduce your monthly outgoings are actually designed to make the company more money as they are spread over the long term.

We have the highest rate of personal debt per person in Europe over and above mortgages.

> Can you imagine how many of us would pass English if they looked at our spellings!!!!!!!
> Lea :-)

Probably all of us - with flying colours too - the way the standard for spelling & punctuation has dropped.  Even using capital letters to start sentences seems a thing of the past.

Home economics no longer exists-it is food technology now so money/budgeting doesnt get covered. There is a brief unit on budgeting in Business studies but not all students get taught this. I generally think that sort of thing isnt taught as such but "picked up on" at home. Im sure statistics would say that children brought up by parents in debt will go on to be in debt themselves. Also, how many go to uni and get in debt? It has become something of the norm. My parents generation feared getting into debt or owing a significant of money to someone ( and still do) but to my generation being in debt is something regarded as normal.

Also, how many go to uni and get in debt? It has become something of the norm. My parents generation feared getting into debt or owing a significant of money to someone ( and still do) but to my generation being in debt is something regarded as normal.

I was brought up in a family where if you hadn't got the money to pay for something outright then you went without it and that is pretty much how we have lived our lives - do have a mortgage but that is our only form of borrowing and we could never have saved enough to buy a house ourtright :)

The only way my daughter could go to university is to take out a student loan which, by the time she graduates, will be a debt of around £15,000. It is not great to have to start  your working life with a large debt hanging over you but, without that loan, she wouldn't be able to study for the degree and work in the  career she has chosen. For her the loan is a means to an end and she doesn't see it as any big deal - whereas, if it were my debt, I  would be quietly panicking :)

>For her the loan is a means to an end and she doesn't see it as any big deal - whereas, if it were my debt, I  would be quietly panicking 

My son's in the same situation. He's very cool and matter-of-fact about it, while I quietly have kittens every time I think about his future with that debt hanging over him.

Maybe the problem is that what kids are taught, is not made to seem relevant to 'real life'.

Making cakes in home ec is not particularly relevant to learning how to shop for a family of four or a couple etc for a week, making a pencil case in sewing is not obviously relevant to how to mend a tear in some trousers or how to replace a zip.

I have to say the very vast majority of what I learned in school was not relevant to real life at all - undoubtedly some of it was very interesting (although, a lot of it was utter rubbish, dumbed down versions of science stuff which once one moves on to college./university, one then needs to relearn it all anyway)... but knowing how to measure the distance between planets does not help me figure out how to re-hang a door thats come off its hinges...

I reckon the basic stuff, maths, science, english, should be taught as it is relevant to how we live and the things we need to do.

We need to be able to read and write correctly to read instruction manuals and to ask for help in writing (say if i am posting on a pc forum asking for help, if i cannot spell correctly then i may not have my problem diagnosed correctly).

You need to be able to measure, multiply, divide accurately to do diy, to shop, to cook...

I do agree that parents need to be responsible for much of their childrens education, but i also think that there are now sadly a lot of parents out there who do not possess these skills to pass on to their children.

i agree with you brainless, and no its not taught as part of it at all. when i was at school (left 6 years ago now, ahh!) home ec was cooking and sewing, thats it. nothing about actually running a home...

i don't think about my (growing student debt- i'm sitting at about 10 grand in all at the mo i think (slightly less maybe) and that includes my massive overdraft and my credit card (that i fully intend to have paid off this year but its only £250). then my partner and i both intend to do post grads so that about another 6 grand between us... however i'm likely after that to have a starting salary of 20 grand (heres hoping anyway...) so i think its worth it. i'm not worried about my loan, my overdraft concerns me though

home ec was cooking and sewing, thats it. nothing about actually running a home...

But parents run homes - it's their job :) so they are the ones that should be teaching their children how to do the same. I agree that not all parents have the skills to run a home themselves but then perhaps the government should introduce compulsory parenting classes for those parents who lack these skills rather than making schools having to take on parental duties on behalf of those parents who shirk their responsibilites :)

But then parents have sex and children so there should be no need for Sex Education and Child Development.

We have  huge teen pregnancy rate and huge personal debt so the parents aren't succeeding.

Sorry didn't go to an English school but don't they do business studies at school over here, In Ireland we had to take business studies as a subject for the first three yrs at secondary school and it was one of the subjects we had to take for what would be GCSEs.
My children don't get pocket money but have to do jobs for their money, if they want something they have to save half the money to get it if its big, weekly mags they have to pay for themselves, they know the more jobs they do the faster they will get what they want.  Matthew got a harsh lesson last week he threw a strop and wouldn't do anything to help out so on "payday" Bronwyn got her £2.50 and Matthew got a big fat nothing and couldn't afford to get his magazine which now he has to order it or he is one short in the collection. I am such a mean mum, but this evening he finished his jobs super quick and offered to do extras.
Mary

We have  huge teen pregnancy rate and huge personal debt so the parents aren't succeeding.

I agree that both issues are a real problem in today's society despite sex education having been included in the curriculum for a number of years :( If parents are not succeeding as parents then those parents need to have their problems addressed in order that they can take responsibility for their own children. If parents are not able to take full responsibility for their children then it is those parents who need to be educated.

business studies is an optional class as of 3rd year in scotland in most schools

perhaps but can we really just go "well there not doing it, why should we?", it just perpetuates the problem and doesn't deal with it. if kids are educated to be responsible adults they will become responsible parents.

perhaps but can we really just go "well there not doing it, why should we?",

But which subjects would we have to drop in order to fit those further life skills in?

The education system as it stands is struggling in some areas to fulfil it's role as it is and to have yet more subjects thrust upon it doesn't help anyone. With a finite number of hours in a school day something has to go in order to fit something else in. You can't get a quart in a pint pot :)

To try and put a bit of a different spin on this i find myself in employment after 6years out of it and driving house prices means we are mortgaged up to our means..

I never had this when i was growing up my mother did voluntary work, but needs must in our case and its a case of if i dont then we dont have a roof over our heads, i am loathe to work i miss being at home with my daughter (disabled at that so you can see how hard it is for me)..

My point is sometimes parents cannot really teach their children the basics of life as they are so shattered on coming home from work! i work in a chicken factory my wrists hurt to hell right now if i heavy lift things from cutting all day after the weekend off.. things arent what they used to be and i for one refuse to be penalised for trying to do whats best...

>My point is sometimes parents cannot really teach their children the basics of life as they are so shattered on coming home from work

It isn't a teachers job to tell children the basics of life to be honest ...it is the parents responsibility and it is how children learn to become good parents ..

Why not make the school day longer, that would avoid latchkey children.

Why not make the school day longer, that would avoid latchkey children.

How would the extra working hours be funded? As dedicated as most teachers are I think they would quite rightly be of the opininion that more contractural hours would mean more pay - as anyone in any other employment would. Contrary to popular belief teachers already spend a goodly number of hours of their own time involved in unpaid work.

A lot of schools already have breakfast clubs before school and homework clubs after school in order to help out working parents.

Perhaps children should just be taken away from their parents at birth and put into residential homes until they reach adulthood and then all problems that occur would obviously be the fault of the education system and parents would not have to accept any blame or responsibility at all :) :)

I think if parents are too tired when they come home from work to eductae/discipline thier children then they should cut back the hours they work and re organise their prioritys.
I believe if children are brought up well enough at home then education would be far more easier and successful at school.
You go into a classroom now and the majoritry of time is spent magaing behaviour and discipline. If a situation gets bad and parents are called in sometimes you realise why the children are the way they are. If parent have got a "dont care" attitude and let th children get away with anything then how can teachers come down strong when it's not being reinforced at home. The reason i didn't misbehave at school is because there would be serious repercussions at home if i did. Unfortunately some children misbehave becuase they can and there are no consequences.
Samr goes with learning about budgeting etc, how can teachers teach that when parents aren't bothered by it at home.
Unfortuantely i think it's another one of those generation things. and will probably only get worse

I asm all for parents taecahign children what they know, but the world moves on at such a pace that parents simpoly do not have the knowledge of modern finacnial matters like Student loans/debt, the fifferent kinds of mortgages adn ownership schemes because property prices are so high.

I can tell my daughter all abotu a standard repayemtn mortgage and what ti means when it is over different terms.

My daughter also knows how much things cost and where one can trim costs, adn make sacrifices as that is the life we lead.

My son can't budget to save his life, what little money he has in his pocket he spends.

i don't think you'd need to drop anything, as brainless said before home ec used to include that sort of thing...it would certainly be more useful than how to make a chocolate cake (thankfully i had the involved parents/grandparents and could make a fantastic cake by the time i was at primary school lol)

> parents simpoly do not have the knowledge of modern finacnial matters like Student loans/debt

this is totally true, my parents couldn't tell me anything about student loans etc and we got no help at school (thankfully my big sis went a year ahead of me)

i volunteer with an organisation that goes around schools in the area with low numbers of students moving into tertiary education  and trys to educate kids about college/uni. it's great because they get first hand discussions about the problems with finances you have at uni.

Sorry for the typos folks :D  Got interupted and timed out for editing