Basically I have a 16 month old Labrador retriever that to all intense and purposes is house trained.  Except at night.  For example if we are in all day no problem he doesnt mess at all.  He doesnt particularly ask to go out but he starts pacing and sniffing floor which is our cue to let him out.

If we go out in the day and its bad weather he is left indoors with my other dog (4yr old Border Collie).  depending where he is left he messes.  if he is in porch area he doesnt mess any larger area and guaranteed wee or poo!!

At night both are left the run of the downstairs and everynight I come down to puddle or poo or both!!  I have tried containing him to porch then I have a sleepless night because he yaps and barks all night.

I AM RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS.

This is about the fourth dog I have had and all of my training ideas that worked previously are not working.  (My border collie was clear at about 9 months - I got her at 6 months totally untrained).

Any help or tips would be appreciated!

Have you checked with a vet that it's not a medical problem?
If you rule that out then it may be worth going back to basics for a few weeks. i.e. take him out late at night and wait until he wee's. Lots of praise/reward. get up in the night to let him out again.
Like humans, some dogs can go for a long time without needing the toilet, others cant. It may be a case of starting back at the beginning and building up the time. Good luck.

Thanks for that.  I did forget to mention that I put both dogs out for about 45 minutes before we go to bed.  That is after I take them out at about 9.00 for walk.  I had thought about checking with a Vet but wondered if it was me doing something wrong before I took that route.

Always better to check it out. Better safe than sorry. Once a medical condition has been ruled out you can hopefully work n nipping the problem in the bud. Vet may give you sme advice aswell, but im sure others on here will help too and elaborate on what i've said.

Are you sure it's not your other dog having the accidents?

No definately not.  I am wondering about what you said medically because I remember only about one month ago he was laid on his back and my husband was tickling his tummy and all of a sudden he just weed.  But he didnt even move like he didnt know he had done it!!

Dont want to worry you but that's not normal. Obviously its not a medical emergency as in you need to go to the vets tonight, but i'd definatly get him booked in ASAP. Make sure you tell the vet any small thing you can think of such as when he involuntarily wee'd when your husband tickled him.  (Although i nearly wee sometimes when i get tickled, or i have a violent coughing fit :-) )  I'm sure it will be OK. x

I agree with the other posters but also wanted to add thatif he isn't ever asking to go out and always messes when left then I wouldn't class him as toilet trained at all, so i'd go right back to basics again :-)

If this is not a medical problem, i agree that the "back to basics" approach will be necessary, BUT there is a big clue or two in your post, and you actually have the answers to your own questions within it............

1. He doesnt mess when you are there, ONLY when you are out, or he is unsupervised. he also has the "run of the downstairs" at night. It seems as though he does this whilst he is unsupervised because he CAN. He doesnt get the opportunity if you are there. So as part of your back to basics plan I would suggest the same as i would whilst housetraining a pup.  He needs to be given less opportunity to have access to weeing when you are not able to supervise him.
2. He does not wee if left in the portch, in a small space.

the answer is supervision at all times whilst possible, then when supervision is not possible, deny him access to places where he is likely to wee....and it sounds like he may benefit from crating (obviously for short periods only if you are out, and at night). There are many posts you can search on this board about crating and training. You may only have to do this temporarily whilst he relearns his housetraining. If you dont like crating, insist that he stays in the portch and eventually he will get used to it if you are consistent.