I have a beautiful Jack Russel bitch , she recently had her season and was kept apart from our male rotty for several obvious reasons.
As usual I let Bella out in the back garden , Broque (rotty) locked in house - next door is a male dog probably about 9 months old at the time & did not think about him being fertile to mate with Bella .
After a short time I went to let Bella in horrified she was gone - in next doors garden with the 9 month old - I actually caught him getting of her , no idea if they tied or not.
From that night I counted forward for possible ofspring but still thinking he was perhaps hopefully too young.
Bella is showing signs of a pregnancy swelling , weight gain , tiredness and not so tollerant of our other pets, She is just past halfway (feb 9 - due) awaiting to see the vet next week for a check up to confirm either way.
Now I told the neighbour for no other reason than arghhh your dog got mine you might be a nan - so to speak I was dumbfounded with her reply.
" well it's not his - i've taken him to the vets - hes had a sperm test he's (excuse the term) - shooting blanks.
Now he is a mongrel/heinz whatever she wishes to call him , a friend of mine was taking her dog to the vets a few days later and enquired as a matter of interest as to be really honest we found it hilarious that an adult women would just for no apparent reason take a mongrel dog to a vet for a sperm test(the women in question tends to tell alot of lies to say the least).The vets told my friend that it is very unusual test to do , normally done in rare circumstances on pedigree's that are attempting mating and nothing happening , it is apparently quite a legnthy & complicated process.
Would someone please enlighten me - what the vet has said is true.
On the funny side my husband told her not to worry we didnt want maintenance for the puppies if she does produce offspring !
Is my neighbour stark raving bonkers as I cant for the life of me think why on earth anyone would come out with such a thing about a dog?
Deb

When she says shooting blanks, are you sure she doesn't just mean he's been neutered?

Were you intending on breeding your dog anyway? If not it might not be too late for the vet to spay her (I don't know about risks or anything involved with that, something to speak to the vet about) but if it were me I wouldn't want to add to the problem of too many dogs and not enough homes :-(

why didnt you take your dog to the vet immediatly?
if the dog next door is a mongrol?
isnt there enough heinz 57s out there in rescue kennels?

I too wondered why the bitch was taken to the vets right away

No Twirly , she means what it says the dog has not been nutered.

The Vets were consulted straight away and were to phone back etc , they are now considering the spaying as a way of an apology - hoping its not too late.
I am not a careles owner both my dogs are chipped not allowed to roam etc seperated when the female is in season , the female is not allowed out the front when in season , walked early mornings - this really was one of those unfortunate mistakes and to be honest the neighbour was told Bella was in season but it is 1 rule for her and another for everyone else regarding her dogs i.e she allows hers to roam etc

this really was one of those unfortunate mistakes and to be honest the neighbour was told Bella was in season but it is 1 rule for her and another for everyone else regarding her dogs i.e she allows hers to roam etc


Your dog got in to her garden? How is that her fault?

Looking aside from everything else -yes, I'd say your neighbour is stark raving mad. :rolleyes: There is no way somebody with a mongrel would take it to the vet to check the quality of sperm, and it's also very unlikely a 9 month old healthy entire dog would NOT be fertile. (And they can be fertile months sooner than this!)

Dont remember saying it was anyones fault - - apart from the fact that the neighbour does actually keep taking fences down -

could he be vesectomied (sp) its becoming more common

Why did you not keep an eye on your bitch while in the garden?  She was obviously at peak time and I would always be worried a bitch would be too willing to go and find a mate or a male be too willing and come and find her, especially with male dogs next door.  My bitches are never out unsupervised despite a secure garden.

Also if you know your neighbour takes fences down why not make sure she hadn't done this before you let your bitch out in the garden?

Well, the simple answer is, yes she is barmy, but in your position I would be more worried about my bitch than my neighbours mental state!

> this really was one of those unfortunate mistakes and to be honest the neighbour was told Bella was in season but it is 1 rule for her and another for everyone else regarding her dogs

I agree it was an unfortunate mistake, hopefully your bitch can be spayed now without too much risk. Just wanted to say though that it's not your neighbours responsibility...your dog got into her garden.

It is because of the irresponsibility of others that we never let our girl out of our sight when she is in season, we accept that she is 100% our responsibility if we want to avoid 'accidents'.  If, for whatever reason, she had ever been 'caught' we would have accepted that it would also have been our responsibility to deal with the outcome to ensure her wellbeing.

She goes to the vet Monday hoping its not too late.
At what gestation stage do they start expressing milk , she has 3 1/2 weeks left and has milk - is this a little early if she is actually pregnant and not a phantom which is a possibility as we are not 100% full mating took place and obviously if full mating does not take place the bitch's body can at times think its pregnant

Ice Queen
The dog next door was not out when my dog was let out to go to the toilet , believe me you have no idea the state of mind of the women next door not that I in any way blame her for the dogs possible mating , but what do you do when you put a fence up , the neighbour takes it down , you put up another and that gets taken down - how many times do you have to keep buying new fences because the neighbour wants trellace on top but doesn't want to pay half the expense of the fence.
I would not have let Bella out there knowing he was out there , I have a male dog of my own and managed to keep them seperated (incidentally or ironically he is waiting to go to have his snip)

Tigger 2
I totally agree with you but she is half resposible for the fence especially when she keeps taking them down , we've had the arguments with the Housing association the house belongs to and its not just my side the neighbour took down its the other side of her too and she thinks its ok to let her dogs do their business in the other garden.

How big is this heinz57?

Perhaps this is a line she is used to using for her sons and husband and so automatically said it for her dog too. :-D

I've heard it all now!

Hope that your girl will be ok, one way or another and just for interests sake a male pup can sire pups from the moment it's b*lls drop, sometimes as young as 4 months. ;-) so the pup was certainly not too young.

He's A cross staffy this is what worried me but the vets assured me if Bella is pregnant that the puppies will grow to her size.
But she will see the vets on Monday ffrom there we shall know more

Carrington
I have no doubt that the male dog was old and mature enough to sire pups , the neighbour was only told in a sheer conversation no malice no nothing but for the life of me & I think I was absolutly gobsmacked with her reply of her dog having a sperm test & deemed seedless  honestly I have heard her say some things but this 1 well what can you say.
Ive had dogs for years - never has this happened , we have always taken extra care whith Bella in her seasons & believe me I was so distraught .I love my Bella to bits - shes as I tell her my baby girl and would never intentionally put her through anything to cause her harm or distress.
Although I know it's not the neighbours fault Bella was purpously out the back garden knowing there was a 6 ft wall 2 doors away secure no entry , she knew my dog was in season I told her to ask to make sure if possible not to let her male out as I do with my male rotty when her female is in season I was always brought up to believe you give and take & 1 good turn deserves another.
I am just hoping it is a phantom and she will return to normall - then of to the vet!

The vet told you the puppies will grow to her size? i just hope they dont have a staffies head size or shes in trouble and your looking at a c section (not ideal that is it!) your vet has to be the worst on this planet for giving you bad advice why didnt they give her the jab or at least advise to prevent any unwanted litter if she so has caught?

I suggest you buy the book of the bitch and read up on the possible frightening outcomes and perhaps you wont be so lax next time shes in season.. Your bitch is your sole responsibilty nobody elses you cant rely on goodwill on the neighbours part..

deb, no matter if the dog was out when you let your bitch out or not she needs to be supervised.  If she got out of your garden then surely she could have roamed the whole neighbourhood to find a mate.  It's just something I feel you should be aware of.  I'm sure you are responsible as you seem to be coping with keeping your two dogs seperated but I think, no matter how safe your garden is or how barmey your neighbour is, you need to supervise your bitch while she goes in the garden.  I know it's cold out there but it's the joys of ownig a bitch I'm afraid.

I don't understand why you expect her to confine her dog fromo his garden because your bitch is in season?  Yes by all means tell her but do not expect her to keep her dog in the house because your bitch is out.  You shoudl be responsible for your bitch, especially if you think this neighbour is abit barmey and does her own thing. (We all know peple like that!!!)
I hope that you don't think I am having a dig at you about this. :)

Ice queen
Lol no of course I dont.
I just get so darn frustrated when 1 person can keep to something and not another and I fully accept responsibilty of my Bella but then well on the other hand when her dog is in season I do not let my male out into the garden if hers is out in hers we agreed between us it was the easy and best way how trust can go a little way I know it doesnt take long for the male to get the bitch and sadly this was the case.I guess it is a lesson learnt
I am rather hoping on monday the vets will tell us its a phantom - the day she would have caught was 8 Dec so she is on day 36/7 would there be visible milk/colostrum this early I know phatom and real signs are the same but I would have thought this was a little early for the milk to show ;-)

You do realise that your bitch could still have the Alizin injection to stop the pregnacny and would absorb the foetuses.  This can be given up to 45 days after mating.  This is a much better option than teh risks of pregnancy and teh responsibilities of an unplanned litter.

At this stage the Vet can confirm pregnancy easily by scan, but no longer by palpation (best felt for 23 - 28 days after mating).  Get that injection asap.

I expect the dogs owner made up the story as she thought you may be apportioning blame and expect her to take responsibility.

Oh and pups can be fertile even as young as 4 and 5 months and certainly would be at 9 months.

Please, take her to another vet. Get the alizin injection Brainless mentions in her post and stop this possible pregnancy.

Your neighbour sounds utterly nuts and your vet doesnt sound much better.

It is NOT TRUE that the bitch will limit the size of the puppies shes carrying, absolutely not true. If a vet said that to me, that is the very last they would see of me or my money.

Bitches can and DO die trying to whelp pups that are just too big and given the father is a staffy x, the pups are likely to have BIG heads - big heads through a narrow JRT just dont go.

She could die. She could require an emergency C-section, which would likely cost you a small fortune.

It is just not worth the risk. Get her jabbed asap, today.

Yes Thankyou Brainless she has an appointment for Monday for all the possabilities (sadly had to explain in child like form to my daughter about the puppies might have to die- but shes a bright girl and understands she would rather keep Bella than have puppies and make bella poorly or the dreaded)

But still wanting to know would she be expressing actual milk at this stage if it was a real pregnancy and not phantom it still seems very early for a dog

> She could require an emergency C-section

and that doesn't often go well for the pups, one of our bitches about 21 yeas ago had one and never took to the puppies. she woke up not understanding what was going on and hated them. we ended up losing a couple because they wouldn't take to being hand fed (i think, i was tiny tiny then)

Of to the vets today instead & terminating / spaying i'm not willing to risk Bella's health for the sake of a few cute puppies!

Good for you,!!! hope she comes through the op o.k. 

Hope all goes well with Bella.

I'm sure she will be fine, and be assured you are doing the best thing for her.

Well we been to the vets (poor Bella is travel sick - mind she did get almost all the way there before the effect took place)
Vets opinion - yes definatly pregnant , probably a fair few in there as she apparently has a rather large tum for the time and yes 99% she would get into trouble with the cross breed types and a 300 -500 pound bill if intervention needed again very likely   -offered
A closely monitered pregnancy but taking into account she is ttravel sick not very fair taking her to the vets every other day and causing her more distress a no no
The injection is borderline as she is day 38/9 and I really dont fancy her expelling puppies around the house.
The spay and termination - 100% yes
Although we have the possibilty of a hormonal dog for a couple of weeks so on the bright side after recovery she is going to running around playing and tormenting her daddy(hubby) with her sqeaky toys (tho debating hiding these for a couple of weeks incase she thinks they are her babies as I have read) to a manic depressive sittin in the corner sulking or following mummy round
Tho hopefully she will be fine I am dreading the emotions of waiting to hear she is ok after her operation (how long does it take roughly)
Then wait from the hurl of abuse from the neighbour that I am cruel etc but well I am sorry if people think it's cruel but it was a mating not meant to be Bella's health is far more important to me than a few puppies that I do not have to worry about being dumped & unwanted presents and as for the neighbour before she starts to comment she needs to realise that I have actually been responsible and needs to stop letting both her dogs roam the street (Male & female) and too risking her dogs getting pregnant or being responsible for pups her female had pups last year at the ripe age of 8 personally too old
So thanks all , fingers crossed & loads of doggy treets for Bella

Hope Belle has a quick recovery.  You know that you are doing the right thing for Belle et al. 

Unfortantly accidents happen and just ignor what your neighbour says.  Everyone on this forum is right behind you and here if you ever need to rant about your neighbour. :-) We will listen.

In Response to deb7268

>The injection is borderline as she is day 38/9 and I really don't fancy her expelling puppies around the house.<

Just wanted to reassure you that a bitch can absorb puppies up to about 42 days if they die in the uterus in a pregnancy so the injection is unlikely at this stage to cause visible loss of anything like puppies, but the spaying is the best option of all as it will prevent her ever having an accident of this kind again, as well as having positive health benefits for her.

Of course the injection would have preserved the fertility of a bitch needed for breeding that had been mis-mated, but the spaying is the best option otherwise.

I am sure she will very quickly be fine.  Just keep her busy and do not allow her to brood, collect toys and make nests.  If you have to take her bed away until she stops moping.  Knowing how active Jack Russells like to be I am sure she will be back to her jolly self very quickly.

I think you are being so sensible .

Well in all the commotion of me moaning about he neighbour and asking is she barmey answer totally !
She now thinks her bitch is pregnant (she is 8 1/2) and I think  possibly by her own son - yes the dog that is firing blanks & she is letting her have the puppies but now said she has phoned the pdsa to ask how much to casterate the male dog - ok so why casterate an infertile male for 1 thing then said it 95 pound for her heinz - well how come when I phoned its 55 pound and that's for my rotty.
I think this woman is completely mad a compulsive liar  - oh and Boneless lol she said I was cruel having Bella spayed and pups terminated but simple reply how can being responsible for not bringing un wanted pups into a world where they are dumped be cruel and plainly as Bella is a full JR told her I will not allow her to have mongrels.
Can I ask are the puppies likely to be normal and is the bitch too old - I rather think she is she too has arthiritis
deb x

Most people consdier a bitch of five too old for a first litter, and if she were a pedigree she would not be able to have her puppies registered as the KC consider it too old past their 8th birthday except in special circumstances, with full vet support. 

Usually even with champions the KC refuse permission.

I have never bred from a bitch younger than two, older than 7 or had a first litter later than 4.  Most of my girls have had their pups between 3 and 6 years of age.

You're definitely doing the right thing. Also think of the fact that there are more Staffies and Staffie crosses in rescues everywhere than almost any other type of dog, there aren't even enough homes for purebred Staffies bred deliberately (the only breed I've ever heard the KC warn breeders about there are not enough homes for so don't breed too many) -so chances are you would have ended up with a lot of pups you couldn't even home.

R:E Bella - Well she has been to the vets today had her spay and termination , very sleepy but functioning properly i.e toilet , doesn't want to eat yet but guess that will come tomorow .
Worries over about her giving birth etc and any future accidents - no unwanted dumped puppies & 1 sad rotty dog(Broque) wondering what 's wrong and why his Bella doesnt want to play bless him - all in all a very weird day , worriting over Bella , sadness for Broque as he wondederd where his Bell was thay have never been apart for 2 years .Few days time and I guess we will be back to normal .
Thanks to all
deb x

Glad she is ok :)

I'm sure Bella will be back to normal soon. You've done the right thing for her.