Is this the norm nowdays??

I dont really understand it, can someone tell me the benefits/the drawbacks?? I am liking the idea of getting one..... but purely for the puppy to have "alone time" away from the children..... and to "make" it rest when its been out for a long walk etc (am reading up on the 5 minute rule for 1 month of age? to avoid hip issues??) and i understand its good for toilet training?

Also whats the best size to get for a puppy thats going to be a medium sized dog? is it good to get a smallish one so they feel snug and then the dog "outgrows it" and just uses a normal bed? or is it better to get a large one so that the dog can use it as a bed overnight? (not with the door shut though!)

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product_group.asp?dept_id=149&pg_id=253&gclid=CP3939SFqpACFQ9CMAodGBE6Xw

Im just a bit yeah but no..... cos i do see the way it could work, but had never imagined actually leaving a dog in a cage while i went to the shops or something..... i assumed it would be left in one room out of harms way (whilst a puppy, a grown up can do whatever s/he pleases as far as im concerned whilst im out) with bed/cage, water avaliable to enter or exit as it sees fit....

However i do like the idea of "puppy time outs" in a cage, to calm them down after a busy day. or even to give it some peace from the kids (easier to teach a 2 year old NO GO NEAR THE CAGE than try and get them to understand "when they are laying" kwim?? .... omg puppies really are like kids aren't they? :D, ive got visioins of the household on tiptop cos the puppies asleep :D

and apologies for the huge amount of threads im starting........ just trying to get as much knowlege as possible...... forewarned is forearmed! :D

It's not the norm in the UK, but they do have their uses.

A friend of mine had never used a crate for any of her puppies, but thought she would give it a go with her new red boy, but didn't really know how to start.

I advised her to make it into a den, cover with a blanket or similar on three sides & the top, leave the door open & feed her puppy in there, pop him in every time he fell asleep, put a chewy toy & piece of bedding from the breeder & something of hers. This she did & after two days he started to take himself off to sleep in the crate, went overnight without needing to pee or poo & as soon as she got his food dish out he went into the crate. I did advise her to set the alarm during the night so she could let him out for a pee etc & then put him back to bed. She was very impressed as this means she can safely leave him & her other Irish Setter, Jamie, if she has to go out & leave them alone knowing that the puppy will not have got into any mischief, Jamie(who we call our red boy lol)is an angel & a gentleman & appreciates some time out from his little(well not so little now)playmate if they are left alone

I have a load of crates of various sizes from Cavalier to GSD, soft ones & wire ones. I feed Jessie in a crate to ensure she doesn't swop food with Rjj. Rjj likes the Cavaliers soft crate that is big enough for two/three Cavaliers or one BC who likes a snug fitting bed !

I do close the door on puppies during the night. It can also be used during human meal times so that the puppy never learns to ask for food from the table(one of my pet hates)

Toilet training, well it does stop the puppy going indoors outside of the crate when the door is shut. I prefer to take the puppy out every couple of hours, when it wakes up, after feeding & anytime it looks as if it wants to go. My Wukee will be interesting to train as my furkids now have their own door so I don't have to either have the door open all day or keep opening the kitchen door to let them out when they ask. I'm opening a book on how long it will take him to learn & be able to use the new door(took the older BC's a whole day LOLOL

The drawbacks are if it is used as a punishment for unacceptable behaviour & used for very long periods of time.

I close the crate on a night

I am a big fan of crates, and would always recommend them.
Firstly they are fantastic for pups re toilet training. for successful house training the pup should be either asleep in crate, playing under direct vision/supervision, or in the garden  peeing. This does not give the pup an opportunity to have a sneaky unsupervised wee in the house. The pup will cry when it wants out of the crate, and can be taken straight out, then brought back in for the supervised play.
At night I have the pup crated in my room, so it can cry when it wants out, and I can take it....again prevents wee accidents.
The pup learns to feel safe in its little den.
When I go to other places, stay at hotels or in other peoples houses, my dogs can be crated for short periods if I pop out. I have never crated for more than 2 hours, and thats not on a regular basis. The fact that they are familiar in their crates makes them feel more secure being left in a strange place.
Both my dogs are happy with crates, and although we dont use them in our house any more ( just the car), they are more than happy to use them when we go away. It takes away the fear that they my trash someone elses house, or be scared in a strange place.

For a Lab I would say you need the 42 inch long one which will be 30 inches high and 27 or 28 inches wide.  the next size down might suit a small Labrador bitch.

I would not use one for house training myself as I don't believe in making young pups have to hang on when they can't, but they are good for when you travel away be that to put int eh awning when camping, in hotel rooms or cottages when you pop out to eat, or when visiting relatives whose homes are less likely to be dog proof, for their own safety and to protect their home.

They are excellent for travelling if the size you need will fit the car.

You can get shaped folding ones that might be used dual purpose (see here: http://www.doghealth.co.uk/flexi.htm ), they are dearer but save having to have one for car and one for house.

Just wanted to add that the fabric crates for a do that doesn't chew or get anxious are wonderful at showa sn in hotel rooms being so light, compared to the metal ones.  theya re only suitable where the dog is beign supervised or in an escape proof area just in case.

I wouldn't be without a crate although don't even have it in my house just now.  My parents aren't as doggy daft as me and they put her in the crate if they have guests in and are looking after my dog.  It is also useful on xmas day to keep the peace and when my dog is staying over at my parents (e.g. if I am on holiday) she sleeps in it.

IME crates are excellent if used correctly and getting a pup used to one is good practice as it means you can take them to hotels etc and they may be less likely to get stressed if staying at the vets or other place where they are used.

I used mine regularly until my dog was 1 year old as she used to chew through walls and wires etc and it wasn't safe to leave her. There was no room in my house at the time that was completely dog proof so it was a necessity.

Crates are useful for travel and shows, the only time I use them. Do not like the idea of dogs being crated at home for any length of time and NEVER sell puppies to people who crate/cage.

Really Bazb?? Surely that will severely narrow down the list of people you are willing to sell to, given the growing popularity of crates?

I certainly plan to crate my new pup. I am willing to get up as many times as I need to in the night to take it to the toilet, and it will only be crated for very short periods during the day, ie while I pick the kids up from school etc  (until it can come with me :) ).... would you, in that case, consider someone planning to do similar to be unsuitable?

We have a new puppy at our house, Oban, and he will be 9 weeks old on Monday.  He is a  Black Lab.  I guess crating is the norm here in Ontario, Canada.  All the breeders we investigated recommended it.  And we did it sort of loosely with our previous Lab girl.  We do make sure he gets out regularly for bathroom breaks, even at night (and it was -20C last night so we have to wear our warm jammies :)) so for that reason I don't think it really did much in the toilet training department as we get him out when he needs to go.  It does keep him safe and out of harms way when we are cooking and there are pots and kettles of boiling water around.  And it gives the cats a chance to look him over when he is contained.  I think it does teach him to just settle down and be quiet and we ignore him when he is crated.  It sounds like you have read a lot and are pretty familiar with the ideas behind it.  Some cautions I would emphasize are:  1) no collars on when crated.  2) no bedding for chewers.  3) no blanket or towel overtop for chewers.  We leave Oban a chew toy and water.  The water has to be fixed to the side of the crate so he doesn't spill it.  The general rule of thumb for timing here is crated one hour for each month of age plus one more hour.  We do not crate for more than three hours, except at night.  He got up to four hours at one point last night.  We have a full size crate that will fit Oban when he is an adult but for now we have it divided off with a plank of wood so there is space just for him to lie down, turn around and put his water pail in.  I have to say our previous girl never got to like the crate and never went to it willingly on her own.  Once she was a year old we folded it up and put it away but I know people with pooches who do seem to treat it as their own little refuge.

Ckate, i was thinking about the school run (as my life is ruled by it :rolleyes:) and i was thinking what do you do when you get to the school gates?? cos you cant take the dog in can you?? and its not like you can carry them both :P

>i was thinking what do you do when you get to the school gates??

Cant you get the kids to come to the gate? You're not one of those mothers who gets to school an hour early so they can sit around and gasbag with the other mums? :D ;) I have never goner inside the gates to pick up my kids,they've always come out to me.

A little off thread, Ktee, these days when kids are primary school age you HAVE to go inside the gates, they don't allow kids out if their carer isn't there.

Good God, in my time that only applied for pre school, and when I was a child most of the primary school age kids walked to school certainly the Juniors.

I used to wait in the playground with the dogs but then they got banned when my youngest was in year four.  There had never been an issue with naughty dogs or afraid children.  Two of us used to walk up with oput dogs me with one and then two Elkies and a friend with a Golden retriever.  When they banned us out of hand when a new head took over I waited outside.

I did write a letter complaining about the ban especially as over the years many children had learnt a lot from the dogs presence and I had even brought a litter into school to give a talk on dog care and to explain to the children the responsibilities and why it was important that their parents should want a dog and not them as they would be the carers and the kids would maybe move on in the lifetime of the dog.

I did this on two occasions ans still get stopped by adults and former kids telling me they remembered the visit.

When I volunteered another time to give a talk  I got told they couldn't take risks having dogs into school as their Insurance wouldn't cover.

I remember having all sorts of interesting people and animals come to our school when I was a child including foxes and Owls and Ferrets.

that sounds like a wonderful thing for kids brainless! theres another thread about teaching people not to buy dogs from irresponsible breeders (read puppy farmers),, i think this kinda thing is how! and yes, we had owls, snakes etc visit from the loval wildlife center, that was in Primary school- i'm 22 now so not that long ago

bazb, how do you get your dogs used to the crates before you show them?  Is at a show the first time you use a crate and then only use it at shows?  My dog, now as an adult, would freak out if put in a confined space if she hadn't been used to it as a pup.

Dogs only go in crates when traveling and at unbenched shows, absolutely the only time. Never been a problem with a pup, they would go in with a sensible adult. I know lots of people do use crates/cages and I understand the point about in a crate so safe when popping out for a short period. But the idea of a dog spending hours in a crate where there is hardly and extra room other than to lie down on turn around is not one I like the thought of.

The first time I ever put one of mine in a crate was a at show where I had two and couldn't take them to the loo with me and there was no where to tie the dogs up so bought one on the spot.  It was very heavy walking it back to the bus stop as I had come to the show with two kids two and two dogs from Bristol to West Super mare by two buses.  There was a good 10 minute walk to the stop.

Since then I have only used a crate as an extension to a puppy pen when I have a litter and then I left it up in the kitchen as it was in the spot a bed had been.  I never ever shut my dogs in crates at home.  Would never leave them in one to go out of the house, though used one to go for meals when staying at a hotel or B&B.

Before I got my Newfie a lovely lady from the UK club recommended I buy one and to be honest before that I had never used or seen one.
I bought a huge crate that took 2 of us to carry it when delivered and when erected I thought my word!!
I found it was a wonderful item and my old boy loved it, infact I had a job to clean it as he became very protective of it.
At night as pup I would help him in and it kept him safe and I could sleep knowing that.
He used it for nearly a year and a half and then he decided he loved just to sleep in the conservatory.
When he was a pup I also used the crate if I had to pop out shopping or just had to pop out for a while and again he was nice and safe.
One little tip was the breeder gave me a towel with the mothers smell on which helped to reassure my young boy in his first week or so at home in the crate.

thats how we use ours minipeace, our boys hurt his front leg this week and being a very stoic breed combined with him not being the brightest (lovely though) he is insisting on running around on it, jumping up and down, trying to mount our inseason bitch and generally making it worse...so seditive from the vet and his own special crate to sleep in, happy as a clam

Just because people use crates there is no reason to assume they are used or hours.  You think you have a good reason to use crates...at shows. Other people may frown on that usage just as you frown on these being used for pet dogs in the family situation.

I used crates and I think I used them sensibly and they are worth their weight in gold..especially living with a family in a big old open plan house where none of the few doors we have actually can be made to close and where life can be hectic! This way the pups had quality time and when they were around they were always supervised and did not get into trouble or develop bad habits. The advantage also is for going away, fr shows , camping, for stays at the vet, for boarding kennels they are used to being caged. My first dog never had a crate and he was always free range in the whole house and even had a dog flap so he had free range to the garden but he was not relaxed confined in kennels or at the  vet and he had bad habits from too much freedom too young, although he did always have a safe crate sized  place he could go and escape from the kids in the corner of the kitchen in a space between the units . Crates are like that but work two way..the dog can choose to use them and when it is appropriate we can choose for the dog to use them.   No

No difference than a dog being in them at a show...where it is in many cases for all day and not just for a short time!

We used a crate for our boxer when he was a puppy - mainly to give him and the older dog some quiet time apart.  He was crated overnight but let out to go to the toilet and for only short periods when we were out.  After a few months the door was permanently left open and he cried when we got rid of it.  It was also incredibly useful when my parents have looked after them as he is quite happy to settle in his 'own space'.
I think that if they are used correctly then they can be invaluable, especially in a multidog household.  Sadly it appears there are many people that seem to use them instead of basic training as it is easier for them to shut a dog away than work with any issues they may have and as such I can totally understand why some people are opposed to them.

But the idea of a dog spending hours in a crate where there is hardly and extra room other than to lie down on turn around is not one I like the thought of.

We also use a crate for our ACS. Firstly it was because Jesse was so small and I couldn't risk him being out with the three big dogs without supervision. And he will now also be crated when we are out until I am sure that he will not cause any trouble with the other dogs (until he is about 18 months old).

Jesse's crate is however the biggest one available at 48", so he has his bed in there as well as quite a bit of room to stretch, turn and walk about... I would not be comfortable if he had only just room to turn around!

He is only ever crated when we go out.

Vera

Before I ever had a crate my first Elkhounds favourite resting place was under the sideboard on which the TV stood, never went under it when I moved it to the dining room, even though ti was basically the same room being through lounge.  How she didn't brain herself or cause lasting back damage I don't know as there was only about 8 inches clearance

Dogs do like den-like places, so crates are good for this, but I don not like shutting them into one unless absolutely necessary.

I have to say when we were first told about crates i had assumed it was very cruel to put a dog in a cage but we have found ours to be a godsend to prevent our boy causing damage to himself when i pop out, although i do disagree with people using them for hours during the day.

Mine love the crate, yesterday I decided to leave Pipers crate open while I popped to the shops and when I got back found both of them squashed into the one crate. Sight and a half, a rottie and a staffieX in a crate big enough for Piper.
Mary