Hi Everyone

Just something I was pondering over the weekend after something happened.

We were on the list for a SBT puppy but a while ago it all went pear shaped.
Apparantly as I wasnt expierance enough with SBT's to have one even though she said I was fine to begin with and I have one now who has never been in any trouble, the reason for it was I let my girl say hello to dogs off lead at the mo (not scarpering up but while encountering dogs on walks she wants to say hello!and she wasnt happy about it so wiped me off her list.
Harsh?? I think so!

It was strange as she never replied to my emails or questions about the litter and I think a breeder should be there for all prospective buyers when they buy a puppy and after as well as they want them to have one of theyre puppies.

Just seems that breeders now are less enthuastic about getting people to buy theyre pups but so quick to write them off for one small thing that was just down to lack of expierance, I wrote her off as well (and apart from the obvious reason) as she didnt meet my criteria of being there for me when I needed her. I mean I want to show my dog and I will need all the help I can get with showing and learning the ropes so what good is abreeder that wont reply to emails or offer any advice?
This lady was a registered breeder as well with all health checked dogs.

Any thoughts?

do you have a SBT and looking for another pup ..how did she know you let your dog run a round off lead?

I have changed my mind about new puppy owners when they tell me what I want to hear then down the line forget and let slip something I dont want to hear:rolleyes:. Thats why I like to keep in touch with prospective new owners and get to know them , if there is something I am not happy about or get vibes I wont let the puppy go to them.

SBT (not my breed) are a breed that are getting bad publicity (especially in the city I live) so I imagine the breeder is very particular over who she lets the puppies go to which I think makes for a good breeder ,its very difficult letting people down and I understand how upsetting it must be for the person who wants a pup but  a breeder has to go with the gut feeling and protect the pups they breed.

We were friends on a forum and I see she had a litter going so aksed her about it.

Then I posted asking about Pet insurance (Which was best etc) and she jumped on me and said I was irrisponsible for letting my dog off lead at all, even though I stated quite obviously it was a local park where she knows everyone!

Only going on the information you have given here, I would say that it's a tad irresponsible too.
**Edited** actually I think irresponsible is a bit strong - perhaps a bit more caution required would be how I would word it - sorry...

Pups and puppy lists and breeders aside, I think all of us Stafford owners have to be a little bit more cautious when in public with our dogs, whether they are good with other dogs or not...
I'm sure you know your dog well, but public perception can be a funny thing!

Going back to breeders and so on.. with our breed being the way it is at the mo - no offence to you personally intended at all - but I'd rather breeders were more cautious about who they let buy their pups...

Thats all fair do's! :)

I am fully aware if how people view staffords at the mo, but Mitz is the Stafford mascot of our area, everyone loves her and she is the only staffie most know, so she is a shining example of the breed, so dog friendly and people friendly people bring theyre dogs over to say hello!

With what you said why couldnt the breeder just say that to me rather then wiping me off the list?
If a puppy buyer needs some help thats what breeders should do, not just write them off without a so much as a farewell!

yep, you're right Rach, the breeder should perhaps have been more forthright with you, and maybe more helpful too. 
Did the breeder not contact you directly and say why you were no longer on the list?  I'm guessing not by your response?  Perhaps a bit more honesty was called for then....

I'm really please that Mitz is such a good ambassador for the breed, and that she is a well known dog friendly girl, but I would still say exercise a wee bit of caution.  You just never know.  :-)

I could have taken the critisism and worked upon it or even changed my whole way of walking her, but she didnt get in touch apart from an email saying ''me and my husband no longer find you suitable'' and that was it!

If I see a dog in the distance I always clip Mitz on the lead as I dont want her scarpering off far away where I cant control her, but I see no problem in when we get close and you can see a dog is friendly or even better ask the owner if they are,why shouldnt a SBT be let off lead to say hello! Its much more manic with her on the lead and if she says hello nicely Im not going to stop her saying hello!

Constructive critism is always welcome as I want one day to be a dog trainer so all advice is needed but she just forgot to offer advice and slam the door shut!

''me and my husband no longer find you suitable'' and that was it!


Also remember Rach, most breeders are absolutely flooded with perspective puppy owners, I must admit I have a saved document explaining why a potential owner is not IMO deemed suitable, very polite and friendly but I expect many breeders do not and to have to write explanations and most of the time I guess they just can not be bothered, so the quick message you got suffices.

It takes a lot of time and effort from a breeder even once suitable people come forward to whittle it down, so less effort is given to those who have said or shown not to fit their criteria.

To be honest if I were after a show dog, I think you are on the best forum, I would personally be looking at Champdogs for a breeder of proven show dogs and hope to match their criteria. :-)

If it is any consolation, a few years ago one of my puppies went to a lady who had a puppy booked and had paid her deposit even before the litter was born. She received a letter from the breeder with her cheque and a note saying that she (the breeder) felt that she couldn't live up to the new owners expectations. I asked what had she said to the breeder and she said that she had asked relevant questions like 'what are the hip scores' what are the elbow scores' and 'have the parents current eye certificates' and several other questions  ready for when she would bring her puppy home. My puppy went to this lady and has lived a happy, healthy life in a well loved home for that past 6 years.

Thats a great story Alison, Im happy for the lady who you gave a chance! :) :)
We do have another litter lined up which is just as good so hopefully we will get a happy ending!

Just out of interest was she let to go and see dogs you already know or any dog ? I think perhaps if it was both then caution is always wise as you never know what the reaction of an unknown dog is going to be. I always put my dogs on a lead unless I know the dogs and know that they all get on well .

To say that she wasn't going to let you have a pup may well be a bit harsh really but I suppose it is up to her :)

I am sure that you wil be able to find another good breeder in time and you will have your new addition soon :)

If its the park shes allowed to run over as its all enclosed and I can see if its a dog she knows.
If were on a field or wood, then I will put her on her lead till we are close and ask the person if the dog is friendly, if yes she can say hello and if not then she stays on till we are a way away and she is let off again.

I dont believe dogs shouldnt be allowed some free running and hopefully the other owners wont have dangerous dogs off lead anyway for her to encounter, but if a dog is leashed she is forbidden to run up to them, theyre on a lead for a reason! :)

It just miffed me as she is calling me a bad dog owner, which I am most defiently not!

I would just move on and look for another breeder ;)

I know

Just wanted to rant about it a little bit!! :D

Have you considered the possibility that it's not the off lead thing that put the breeder off? If you're on the same forum as her it could be other things you've said, perhaps she doesn't like dogs being caged while the owners at work. At the end of the day breeders have to trust their instincts, rightly or wrongly if you're not sure about someone you shouldn't be giving them a puppy.I do think though that a politer email perhaps outlining why they didn't think you suitable would have been better.

Good luck with your search :)

Thanks Tigger :)

Thats what my rant is about and she also continued referring to the email on the forum like it was something she had over me, after that I realised I had made a mistake in choosing her as she wasnt nice after all and she failed to meet my criteria as a breeder, which is a shame as she had gorgeous SBT's.I know she should trust instincts as I would as well, but other breeders are more then happy with me!

Mitz crated for an average of 6 - 7 hours a day, just edited to say that the puppy will not be crated for this long! We are going to train him to free roam in the kitchen...hmm...should be fun! (This breeder also crated her dogs while she worked same as me) if both me and my oh are at work at the same time which is rare as he gets days off frequently being in removals, no one to move house no job for the day!! Mitz loves it and shes getting crated less and less, were even thinking of getting a camera to set up and watch her while we train her to stay at home without the crate! Its scary!

I think you have to take being accepted or not on a breeders list soemthign like going for a job.  there may be more applicants than pups so the breeder can afford to be as choosy as they liek and not take it personally if you are unsuccesssful.

Just like with a job you will come across to some interviewers better than others or your competition is just that much more what was being looked for.

This lady was a registered breeder  what do you mean registered breeder, very few show kennels are registered breeders these days.

Have to agree, it is commercial breeders who are registered and very few good breeders come under that heading unless they are a multi generational family who have several breeds, even then I think few these days would be breeding more than four litters a year.

Some who hardly breed at all occasionally end up needing a license because the council treat them as commercial as they had one in the past under the more than two brood bitch rule, or because they have a canine related business and they count the breeding in with the business..

have to say if i had heard in a forum that one of my potential puppy buyers put their dog in a crate for 6 or 7 hours a day....they would be crossed off my list quite quickly too!!!

you say that you would not crate a pup for 6-7 hours per day.....so why are you prepared to crate and adult dog for that long? I agree with the breeder. Crating for 6-7 hours a day is unacceptable for adult dogs, and I do not blame her for not letting you have a pup. (And I work full time so I am not predjudicd against workers...I just make appropriate arrangements for my dogs. If I had to crate a dog for that long, I woudl not have it in the first place.)

Mitz crated for an average of 6 - 7 hours a day

i think it more likely this may be the reason why she has refused you a puppy..........no dog should be crated  for that long,  crates are wonderful thing, when used right,   I have always used them , but would never leave a dog in one for more than a couple of hrs (adult dogs that is)

It clearly says the breeder does it to.

That's why I mentioned it, my view on cages is well known ;)

The crating would have been a big no no for me too.  I had to turn someone down who I had become quite friendly with, lots of meetings from before the litter was even conceived, during a visit it was mentioned about securing the garden for when they aren't in, and worrying about the hair loss.  Over protective maybe ? Your damn right

Have to agree with several others I'm afraid.  I recently turned down someone who sounded suitable, until I was told the pup would only be crated for 4 hours at a time.  I live alone, so have no choice but to work full time (have to keep a roof over the heads of me and my canines.)  That's why I have a dog sitter while I'm at work.  I take my annual leave to suit the dogs - whelping, operations, dog ill etc.  The way I see it, if I really wanted to own something in a cage, then I should get a hamster.

I can't quite imagine crating a bloodhound.

Just remembered - the breeder I got my GSP off had one (hound not crate) - there was a big chewed wooden bit in one of the wooden windowsills and she hastened to explain it was the b'hound not the gsps that had been dining on it. :D

And I remember I was really worried cos I'd thought about transporting my gsp puppy back home and decided he would need restraining in the car while I was driving and bought a crate to take him home in the car. But I was worried the breeder would then say I couldn't have him if I was going to put him into a crate. :D

don't take offense but just turn it on it's head.... maybe there has been an incident relating to her line of breeding stock that makes her worry more about how they are homed and how well tyhey can be trusted in public areas off lead.   Just cos you have a sweet natured Staffie may not mean her line are so trustworthy.