I followed Lindsay's lead up the other day and ordered the little book she recommended on another thread.  I thought it looked like a children's book and may be useful for me to show my granddaughter - however it is more for the older child and a good read for an adult too.  The ladder of aggression was interesting in that quite high up on the ladder - ie nearer to snap and bite was roll over and lift a leg.  I have always read this as the dog wanting to be stroked and to gain attention from it's owner.  I know it is a tactic to appease a threat  from another dog but would not have put it high up on the list like this.   Does this mean that my dog always feels threatened when we come near and does this to ward off the threat - or has she just learnt that doing so gets a good massage now.  My thoughts are that really she still sees me as a threat - as said in my thread the other day when she snapped at me.  It is probabally all down to the fact that I forced her to be shut into a room where she had been frightened.  After everything we now let her sleep in the kitchen and peace reigns for the time being.  I do hope that one day she will stop seeing me as a threat but the roll over and lift her leg I hope will not mean she is getting ready to bite!!

Hi Ceejay,

It's interesting as Kendal Shepherd has continued the work on canine communication and followed on or added to Turid Rugaas (website here: http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ ).

You're ahead of me as I've not actually got the book, although I do have notes from my "canine aggression  understanding, handling and treating" lecture with her :)

She showed some very useful video clips including one of her grooming her dog who wasn't very happy about it (showed lots of signals and discomfort levels rising) and then showed how the problem could be addressed very simply by offering him a chewie whilst he was being groomed, which immediately showed how he moved right down the ladder. He was still showing some discomfort but far less and was much happier.

I still tend to think that some of the signals are very much calming and coming from that side, but then when you think about it, why would a dog feel the need to calm ? and so we are off up the ladder again! ;)

Lindsay
x

I have seen the calming signals page before ( although there are lots of other pages that are interesting that I haven't looked at) - we have another Turid fan on here though sorry can't remember who it was.  So the early stages on the ladder of aggression are calming signals?  Certainly not by the time the dog stares and freezes! 
My dog always lifts her back paw when we stroke her although she doesn't always roll over.  A lot of confident dogs roll over and lift there back paws too I am sure - still think it is not a high signal when it comes to humans - if it was then it would be a signal to back off because it comes before staring and freezing - it usually happens when the dog is most relaxed I would say.
However I am not quibbling because the book was so useful in making a point to my hubby - he had been winding our dog up with the kong by holding it in the air and getting her to grab it.  I told him to make her sit and wait not tease her and the consequence was that when my granddaughter lifted the kong (she was slow to throw it) Meg jumped in her face and scratched her.  There in the book was a picture of a daft man doing just the same thing.  Point made but rather belatedly.  The book is rather long winded for a child - not sure what age it is aimed at but good for older children (or those that never grow up) :-)

> we have another Turid fan on here though sorry can't remember who it was.

It was HuskyGal I suspect, but she's been offline for a bit.

What is this book? Duibh will automatically raise a back leg if he's lying on his side and you walk towards him - but I always read it as appeasement not aggression, so I think I may need to have a little read. Is it just that those sort of signs are pre-aggression stages in that the dog is feeling uncertain and if things were done that made the dog feel more anxious\ threatened they would get closer to showing actual aggression? Sorry, haven't worded my question very well, but hope you see what I mean.

I look at the whole dog to read body language. My dog raises his leg all the time - usually when he's flat out on the floor next to you and is ready for his human slave to scratch his belly :-D If the dog's ears are flattened or they look frightened then if you push them past their comfort zone you could get aggression. My puppy raises her leg or rolls on her back as you walk over but it's usually accompanied by tail wagging, then her feet start to go as she gets wiggly in anticipation of cuddles. A good book for body language is Canine Body Language A Photographic Guide by Brenda Aloff. Lots of pictures. :)

It was 'Canine Commandments' by Kendal Shepherd that Lindsay suggested for someone who was having problems with children and a dog - Akita nipping thread I think.  I thought it might be good for my granddaughter to look at.  She really likes the pictures and it does give some chance to talk about how she treats the dog but at 2 and 3/4 she does what she likes anyway!!  I have just written out a whole list of doggie books on my Christmas wish list for my family - especially doggie calming ones.  I am so aware that with my dog that she can snap being a collie.  The latest is when she is in her bed.  I posted on it last week sometime.  It has evolved rather as things do and it is definitely guarding and no ladder of aggression can help me tell whether she is going to snap or let me stroke her when approached in her basket. She had had a new cushion and it must have been high value because she gave me no warning at all - it was snap and a very curled lip.  Cushion has gone permanently.  (which of course reinforces that it was worth guarding but seeing that it was also a good chew toy and the stuffing didn't look good for her insides it had to go anyway)