Hi me again. My 9week old lab has started biting worse than when we got ehr alst week. SHe now bitesd and holds on and even jumps and bites your arm. No makes her worse as does ouch and dog noises. Im scared of frightening her with loud NO's but i have no idea how to make her stop. It is getting increasingly painful and shes starting to pierce skin. I no puppys nip and play bite, but shes getting worse not better and its getting very painful. If anyone has any ideas then i would be very grateful.

Megan and Holly

You need to persevere with the yelps I'm afraid, we've all been through it. Your puppy doesn't know what no and ouch mean, if you let out a piercing loud puppy pain yelp she'll sit back and think - these humans are really woosy and eventually she'll tailor her play to suit :) Puppy play biting is actually a really important learning tool, if we stop them play biting they'll never learn bite inhibition and may seriously bite someone one day as they won't know how soft humans are. This is a great article on the subject. Good luck, perseverence is the key :)

I am definitely not an experienced dog owner, but having a 12 week old staffy i am experienced in the nipping and biting - i have the scars to prove it! I even posted for help myself.  all i can say is perseverence really is the key.  Roxys bites seemed to get worse after the first week of having her, so my 'no's' had to get a bit louder and a bit more firmer.  It has only been the last 10 days when we have really seen a big improvement with her, she still nibbles which is fine and still bites and nips hard when she is really excited but such a big improvement.  I really was at my wits end with it - i only had my first cuddle with her, with no bites just over a week ago, now i get them all the time  

The 'yelping' and/or 'ignoring' technic didnt work for me and Roxy, the 'no' did but only after perseverence.  but I suppose different ways will suit different people and dogs.
Good Luck

Did you spend any time watching the puppies in the litter playing and also Mum interacting with them.  Your puppy speaks dog, not English and you need to use communication that she will understand. 

This means a real yelp of pain and immediately leaving her and stopping interaction and play. 

A rough pup has no Friends and no-one will play with them, and they learn to be gentler to keep their playmates.

Also you need to be careful not to overtire or over stimulate a puppy, as they then get cranky and overwrought loosing self control.

hi we used to hold mags nose and just shout no, some people prob would not agree and i guess it would not work for all dogs but it worked for us, when we first got mags at 7 weeks she was really bad at it and as soon as she done it we used to just hold her nose with a firm no and she stopped within about 2 weeks.
also people say they dont understand english but both my dogs as soon as we got them seemed to know what no ment just because of the tone of your voice.

This really is not recommended for a variety of reasons. Didn't you say your bitch was very timid now Stanyer...isn't it possible that when she was only trying to play with you and you reacted in such a violent manner that could possibly make her timid? Also she will now not have learnt bite inhibition, she will have no idea how soft human flesh is and if she should snap one day may actually hurt someone.

A very good point, Tigger. Shouting at a pup certainly won't help it gain confidence, and if it's on the shy or timid side anyway could do great damage.

Yes let's face it, we know how just ONE single incidence can turn a pup shy for the rest of its life. I was at a course at the weekend, for improving show dogs' ring performances. One dog there had been roughly handled by the judge at his very first show (he was actually told off by the judge for being a typical exuberant pup at 6 mths! VERY wellknown judge as well!) and as a result he now backs away from any stranger walking towards him.

My youngest dog, the only one who is still a pup (just!) was pretty impossible as a puppy. Really silly. She wouldn't listen to anything. In the end, rather than getting harsh with her, I just left her until she'd had her first season and had matured a bit. Afterwards like a miracle she was far more sensible and  was able to start her training and everything improved.

we do not roughly handle our dogs in any way, my dogs are prob two of the spoiltest dogs ever. however my friend had a bad expereince when her pup never stopped play biting and ended up doing it to strangers and she could not get her dog out of it. after seeing that i really did not want mags to end up the same and this is what our trainer told us to do. mags was not scared of us when we done it she just knew she was not allowed to do it.if she was scared she would not have kept trying to do it, i dont think that is what caused mags to be nervous of other dogs, i think that is a bit harsh for you to say that she is not scared of people just dogs which at first she was not to bad with other dogs but the older she gets the more nervous she gets. and also all the methods yous are suggesting never worked for my friend or for my sister and i think you really need to get your dog out of it sooner rather than later. my freinds dog can not even be around children because he still play bites.

also yous say to not be harsh on your dogs but im sorry i know hundreds of gundog trainers out there whos dogs are trained to perfection and they arevery harsh with there dogs, do you not watch dog borstal.

>do you not watch dog borstal.

What has Dog Borstal got to do with Gundog Trainers ? Professional gundog trainers have no time for passengers so if dogs can't hack the training or can't perform then out they go.

As for physically correcting dogs to stop tem paly biting as puppies sorry it cannot be justified & to say all the none physical methods just don't work, smaks of them not being used correctly & consistantly

Dog Borstal is terribly outdated. Of course a dog will learn to behave if scared enough -but is that what we want from our dogs? I certainly don't.

>also people say they dont understand english but both my dogs as soon as we got them seemed to know what no ment just because of the tone of your voice

Your dogs do not understand human words, try saying "No, you are a bad bad dog"in a happy light voice & then in a harsh voice & you will see the difference yet the words are the same

well they definitly understand words now for example we can tell our dog to stay and he wont go untill you actually use the command go, even if you say a different word in the same tone of voice as you would say the go. also i did not say anything about dog borstal being about gundog training, i just said those are two different kinds of people that are harsh on dogs. and im sorry but sometimes you have to be hard on your dog if you dont want a wild,hyper dog. my spaniel is by far the best at our training club, none of the other dogs will do the stop.even tho he is only a year and a half. thanks to the way my partner trains him.

You've trained your dog to understand to understand what you want when you make the noise that in our language is stay. He didn't understand the first time. You can train a dog to associate the word no with something negative they aren't born understanding it.

As for being harsh both my dogs are trained to a pretty high level with no harsh methods at all. They are very calm and well mannered and a pleasure to take everywhere. My puppy learned the stop in a couple days and at 10 months old is ready to take her gold good citizen test - all on reward based training.

i dont feel like i am hard on mine either tho, fair enough some might think holding her nose and saying no is harsh but at least she stopped doing it after a few times of doing it. and also i was so scared that she was going to end up like my friends dog who still is bad for biting at over  a year now, and with my first dog who is now a year and a half he never ever done it so when we got mags and she was doing it i justed wanted to stop her. mags will still play bite, but only when you are playing with her e.g sometimes at your socks or a dressing gown robe but never at the face like she used to.

>we used to hold mags nose and just shout no
>holding her nose and saying no

So did you shout 'no' or just say 'no'? There's a huge difference.

Hi,
my puppy did exactly the same and at one point I thought I had got one of those dogs that you see on on dog borstal. I was really worried and read all the books but it got worse. just the same saying no, shouting in pain and all the other stuff i was recommended made her worse.  I rang my breeder (who is amazing) and the puppy started jumping and biting me (brought blood) while i was on the phone. she told me to get a news paper (broad sheet the best) roll it up length ways and secure wrap parcel tape around the ends. she told me to whack it loudly against furniture or myself, making a big noise to startle the puppy. she said to immediatley fuss puppy, just like the bitch does if she has to discipline a pup. the puppy never did it again! we only had to do it 4 times. it was amazing and a complete cure. the breeder said the puppy was getting above her place and she was right. hope this helps

sorry just read my advice back. think my fingers were working quicker than my brain in places! some thing else the breeder said, shout no at same time as whacking news paper and eventually no will be enough. fussing pup immediatley is really important though

:rolleyes: I'm so worried about new owners reading this thread and thinking that to train pups you should shout at them and now terrify them with rolled up newspapers :(

In almost 40 years of dog ownership, 20+ years on my own and before that with family dogs I've never found the need to scare a young pup, and I've never had a dog still puppy play snapping over about 4 months of age, and usually well before that. I've got a great relationship with my dogs, they trust me implicitly to always do the best for them, if they're scared (say by fireworks) they'll always run to me. I've never had to 'show them whos boss' or any other ridiculous outdated dominance nonsense.

>you should shout at them and now terrify them with rolled up newspapers

In puppy training, the only time a rolled-up newspaper should be used in anger is when the owner hits themselves for not watching the puppy properly.

:D Finally a use for an e-collar too then :D

Absolutely! :D

tigger2 i think no matter how you treat a dog the dog will always come to the owner if they are scared. my boy comforts me all the time, he is always wanting to sit on my knee and cuddle up to me. if im having a down day he knows and always sits with me. he wont even let me walk out the room without following me. as for the firework our bitch always runs to us whenever she is scared but we were told not to comfort her.
you say that you have never had to scare your dogs well thats not what i do, by saying no to my pup she is not scared she just seems to respond to the change in voice which used to make her stop.

I thought you said your bitch had bolted home when scared Stanyer?

mags will run to me for comfort all the time.she jumps on my knee when fireworks go off, when i take her to training she will not leave my side and wants to sit on my knee. at the moment she is that scared when out for walks with it being dark she wont leave my side. normally when out for walks if off lead and she saw another dog she would come straight to me. that one time i was walking with mags when a dog ran and approached her she ran right to me, i was trying not to pet her and just ignore her the lady then stopped to talk to me and the dog started to chase mags.mags then would not come to me as the ladys other dog was sitting right beside me.why would she come back to where the dog was when she is that scared,we were on the field opposite my home so mags ran home. i honestly dont think that had anything to do with what we are on about. you dont even know me so you cant say my dogs dont love me. i dont believe you never ever have raised your voice at your dog or said anything in a different tone if they are being naughty, well thats all i have done

It's easy to forget that puppies don't automatically speak any human language, whether that's English, French, Dutch or Hindustani! "No!" is as meaningless as "mnpjyinjdi" as far as they're concerned.

If I shouted "brootistax!" at you, what would you think I meant?

That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.

i would not say shout just a firm no, i no you say they dont understand english but if you keep using the word no in quite a firm tone they soon learn no means there not allowed to do what there doing. which in the long run is that not what you are wanting them to do. i bet if your dog is naughty now you say no, so you might as well start using the word straight away.

To be honest No is not a good command to use when dog training as it is a word used far too much in our homes.

Specific commands are best for any situation that are incompatible with the behaviour you wish to stop.

All words used as commands need to be taught by the pup being shown what they mean.

Negatives like Off and Leave, can be taught by rewarding correct behaviour.  A pup about to take soemthing they shoudln't can be told to leave, and distracted by being shown a new toy or treat etc.

Commands also have to be generalised.  Just because a pup knows sit or down by yoru side it won't know the same command applies when yu are across the room, and often they will come over to you to sit or down as they have leart that it means sit or lie down by my side.

yes i no alot of people at training have difficulty with commands at a distance, we use no for everything with our dogs if he goes to get on the settee we will say no and he gets down straight away or if we want him to leave something we just say no and he leaves it, but i do no what you mean about it being used to much at home it can get confusing for the dog.

> If I shouted "brootistax!" at you, what would you think I meant?

I would call a doctor for you. :D

this seems to be causing much debate!  re hitting newpaper on furniture to startle puppy. i have a puppy who is no longer biting my children. it was stopped in a hour. surely this is better than an owner struggling with a puppy for days or weeks, leading to a frustrated owner and goodness knows what that leads to for the puppy; smacking/shouting and the animal shelter maybe. When your children and yourself have blood dripping down their legs from a puppy biting as a parent and dog owner you try to do your best for everyone, including the puppy.  I feel the advice from my extremely experienced breeder was spot on. I may be a new dog owner but i am not advocating cruelty, far from it!

Ahhh what have i started Sorry to everyone tht thinks tht getting 'physical' so to speak is a good idea but i could NEVER do that to my Holly. You wouldnt do it to your kids so im not gonna do it to a 9week old puppy. The OH stopped their Lab going upstairs with a can with coins in. When she was older everytime you said can she cowered and cried in fear. Who wants a dog like tht. Thanks Tigger and someone else who i cant remember (ill post your name underneath sorry lol) for all your helpful advice. Not tht everyone else had bad ideas, just i really have no intention of resorting to anger. She's getting far better with me but still is a bit cheeky with others.

Ill just continue with the yelps it works to a degree, unless shes insanely hyper and then she gets left by herself. If any one else has any other advice on Biting or anything else then this new Puppy Mum would be very happy

Megan & Holly

PS The other person Was Jeangenie, and everyone else but those 2 stood out, Oh and Brainless, so basically just evryone, i dnt want to offend others, just want to praise super good posts

Ian Dunbar's article Bite stop http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm will work given consistency.  He is a very Good behaviourist/trainer and anything by him is worth reading.  He also has a useful set of training videos which might be helpful.  Just Google for his name and you will get lots of info.

Our GSD puppy Zeus has tried biting us palyfully and we asked a friend of ours who is a registered animal Behaviourist what we could do to stop this... we were advised to give Zeus a chew , Treat or toy to chew on instead of humans... This has worked really well as he finds the toys , Treats and chews much more fun than chewing on us now.. he does have our  2yr old Lab Layner to play with which has also helped.
Sally