What does everyone think about banning fox hunting?? just read an article with points from both sides of the argument - but I've never heard of anybody going fox hunting except on tv!
has anyone ever been fox hunting with horses & dogs??
wondering if they are pedigree hounds that they use..

Suzi,

You are about to start world war 3.LOL

Karen

It was only a matter of time wasn't it :)

I will be keeping my eye closely on this thread, please keep it civil otherwise the "little handbag" comes out !

The thing is if they ban fox hunting it wont just stop at that. Anyone out with more than one dog will be out with 'a pack' therefore hunting and liable for prossecution. If your dog chases a cat it is hunting.
What other way are they going to control the foxes? Poisoning? Surley it is better for the fox to have a quick death by the hounds than a slow lingering painful death by poisoning.

Message for Admin ........ LOL ...... Enjoy ! See yer monday ;-)

lol it's no fun if everybody agrees ;)

Is fox hunting necessary to control the fox population though? It's not as if you see a wild fox on every street corner...

I guess there is a divide on what is humane (like putting down slug pellets and rat poison) which is legal and on knocking over a stray dog
foxes must be on the borderline as they can be a pest for farmers - but people n cities rarely see them so it seems very unfair to hunt down an animal for no reason

i dont like how dogs are used in it personally
i think if people are going to hunt it shouldnt be done as a passtime more as a pest control with employed people maybe

i dont like the idea of people watching their dogs tear apart another living thing - i would be disgusted to see my dog do something like that for fun!

Hi

This could be a fun thread!! But the subject matter is far from fun in anyones reasonable mind.

Firstly. as I understand it, one of the reasons for banning fox hunting is that they do not all get a quick, clean painless death - far from it. If being torn apart can be classed as quick and painless! They are chased sometimes for hours on end until they are exhausted. If the hounds catch them - they rip them to pieces. Many hunters will have you believe that the fox enjoys this! There are also several reported cases where the hunt has gone through someones garden putting children at risk and that the hounds have even ripped foxes apart in front of children causing considerable stress and trauma for those children. But the hunters still felt vindicated becasue they had got their kill!

As for never seeing a fox on street corners - you would be surprised just how many foxes live in cities and go totally unnoticed mainly as they come out when no one else is around. They are shy creatures who don't like humans - can't imagine why. If you have a large garden with some dense undergrowth that is left untouched - there is a good chance at some time you will have a fox in residence. They won't kill unless they are really forced - they are accomplished scavengers. I know some have had a go at domestic pets - but not that many - if they had - you would have known about them.

I live in a semi rural community surrounded by farms and it really bugs me how farmers constantly gripe about how much damage this animal or that animal does to them. Don't forget how much badgers are hated by farmers. But what about all the damage that farmers have inflicted on our landscape etc. We were once renowned for our hedgerows - and the wildlife that they supported, beautiful little wild creatures such as the dormouse, kingfishers etc have been driven to virtual extinction because of intensive farming methods.

The interesting thing for me is that hunting is a tradition that we are proud of - and I have no problem with maintaining tradition, but lets do something more humane. Poison is not an answer, but what's wrong with shooting if they are such a problem, or trapping and then lethal injection, humanely administered. There are other ways to combat problem foxes - but hunters just don't want to know.

I can understand the fun associated with tracking something and the fun over racing through fields and jumping over hedges etc, but does an animal's life have to be the reason? Drag hunting is fun and causes harm to no one - but what these people are really omitting to tell you is that they actually like killing innocent creatures and that's how they get their kicks. In reality, you don't find that many farmers that hunt - they just give the hunters freedom to cross their land. Most hunters are not farmers at all.

Near where I live, Red Kites have been re-introduced. They were a native bird of this country. To date, three have been found deliberately poisoned. Evidence suggests that it is poisoned baiting by farmers who say these beautiful birds are killing there flocks. Interestingly - the poison is taken from carrion - poisoned lamb carcassess for example - so if flocks are at risk - then the animal is usually already dead.

So thats my 2 penn'orth. I'm sure there will be those who disagree

My nan lives in Orpington and when she used to have a GSD, the foxes would come in the garden and steal all his toys. He would hear or see them and go nutty at the door 'cause he wanted to get at them. Plus, they would mess in her garden and it really stinks!

The thing is, if they ban fox hunting (which I hope they won't), it will start the ball rolling for other sports to be banned like shooting which will effect gundogs/HPR breeds.

But the one thing that concerns me the most is what will happen to the hounds and horses? Hunts won't want to keep them as pets as it will cost too much to keep them when they aren't serving a purpose. Hounds that have been living in a pack will not be easily rehomed because of being used to living in a pack and there are so many hounds belonging to just one pack rehoming centres won't be able to cope so they will get pts. As an owner of 2 hounds I know how pack orientated and dominating they can be!

There, got it all off my chest now :)

Would someone who supports fox hunting like to come to the village where I live & explain to a 90 year old lady why her two elderly cats were torn to pieces in her front garden last time the fox hunters came through the village & the hounds got away from the whipper in's AGAIN ?

When you have made the lady happy then could you please explain it to me

By the way the mistress of the hunt sent £5.00 as payment for the cats!

is it a little pink sparkly handbag?

i was suprised nobody had mentioned this b4 cos its on the news alot lol (maybe ill live to regret it tho!)

If you don't want to be sensible don't expect me to post into your little game

John

it may not be sensible but its real for anybody who is involved
i think the only way to decide whether or not fox hunting should be allowed would be if an honest person gave their reasons why they did it...
It could be a load of excuses when they say " its to keep the number of foxes down" but then again it could be true
i just dont see it as something i would want to be involved in - whether or not it was to keep the numbers down
you would have to have a strange outlook to enjoy seeing something killed

and why is it usually royals/upper class people who are involved?

Well the way I see it is that this vocal minority who support fox hunting .. and remember they are a very small minority of the population which is why is is always so disappointing that successive governments fear them so much ... like to twist arguments to suit their own needs but which bear little or no resemblance to the truth.

They claim that this sport will keep down the numbers in the wild, yet also claim that very few fox are killed in this way! They also have been caught encouraging the survival of fox in the wild just to ensure they have enough fun the following year.

They claim the fox enjoys the kill and chase .. well that needs no comment.

They claim that this would lead to the loss of jobs in the countryside, I did never hear such vocal complaints at loss of jobs in the mining industry, the steel industry, Britains manufacturing industry, etc etc etc

They claim to speak for the countryside, yet many of us who came from the countryside are every bit as appalled by this unwarranted brutality as the next person.

They claim that we should ban cars if we follow the argument to its conclusion .. somewhat misses the point that drivers don't do this for fun ... and out view is not about accidental death but deliberate torture.

Oh god I could go on and on and on

This is a serious , sad , and emotive subject ... whatever your views ... think about the animal at the end of the day. If you love your dogs, would you feel good about them being mauled by a pack of dogs bred deliberately for fighting?? I think not!

Well, Suzi, I'm neither a 'royal' nor an 'upper', yet I enjoy watching the hounds run through the fields and a day out hunting. I can't say that I have participated in any English hunts, so I cannot attest to the number of times that the fox is actually caught.

One of the main problems I see with banning fox hunting is that it will lead to a ban on all hunting by dogs, whether furred or feathered. All of the proposed hunting bans that I have seen deal with canines and none address hunting with falcons or the damage done by cats left to wander from their homes during the day because 'cats shouldn't be housebound' (personally, any cat that I or my husband have ever had were HOUSE cats and not permitted to roam at will).

Asking an emotive question such as 'why they did it' is like asking whether someone who uses falcons enjoys seeing the rabbits or birds snatched up in talons and carried away. We could go a step further and ask whether those who poison rats and other vermin are more humane than the people who use dogs or cats to keep down this vermin population. Remember that the dog and cat used to hunt vermin such as rats will often tear apart their game also, but we have to balance that out against poison which can be a painfully slow death in which the rat hemorrages to death internally, creating an unnatural thirst for water, stupor, convulsions and then death.

Why do I hunt? In the States, we seldom caught the fox (though in the South the hounds are also used to keep the coyote population down and they do that very effectively). I hunt for the same reason I enjoy bird hunting or watching greyhounds, whippets, afghans course, terriers go to ground. The wonder and beauty of an animal working and doing what it has been breed for, in some cases, centuries to do is to me equal to few things on earth. During natural coursing in the fields, dogs can and do often catch the rabbits and kill them. The tearing apart of the animal, whether it is fox or rabbit or badger or any other game, more often occurs when there is a large pack of dogs hunting and by that time the animal being hunted is usually already dead.

Me? I could just watch the dogs work for the rest of my life without ever seeing them actually catch the game. But I DO understand why the dogs do as they do and why people enjoy hunting. To assume that it is because we are sadistic, 'have a strange outlook' or otherwise demented is unwise and unfair.

To answer why the 'royals/upper class people' are normally involved, it could have to do with the high cost of maintaining kennels of dogs and horses over here in England. I can assure you that most of the people who hunt in the US are middle class or perhaps more approprirately upper middle class people. Perhaps to answer your own question, you should ask yourself how many people in the middle class range here in England have their own horses, could afford the fees to belong to a hunt club and maintain the equipment/traditional dress that is usually required.

You have my email if you wish to continue the dialogue. Otherwise, I agree with John.

Note to the Admin: Thanks for keeping an eye on this particular thread since it is one that seems to passionately divide the readership.

like most subjects that are based on personal preference there will always be differences in what people believe.
I just personally think that making a dog hunt is unnatural when it isnt hunting for the same reasons as it would do in the wild
I think that people who go hunting are doing it for their own reasons 'kicks' if you like
if the dogs were carrying out that behaviour for their own good and not because they were trained to do so i wouldnt say it was a bad thing
The fact that people interviewed about fox hunting come out with many reasons why they do it (mostly ones which are totally see through) make me very sceptical about why it needs to be done.
i dont support hunting of any kind unless its a natural thing (which would include foxes going after sheep etc)
hunting sharks is illegal and people dont hunt leopards to keep the numbers down so i dont see why foxes should be exempt from this

maybe i would enjoy going fox hunting - who knows? but i will never find out because i would feel too badly to ever try it.

also, it does seem to be a minority who agree with fox hunting yet it goes ahead - so it seems very unfair that it is allowed to go ahead because 'important people' like to do it

I'd like to correct a few things first. Hunting shark is not illegal unless that shark is protected. The 'rock salmon' in fish and chip shops is shark, dog fish to be precise. Same goes for leopard. However, red derr in Scotland need to be 'culled' to keep them under control as do many many different species all over the world so it does go on just in another guise.
To suggest that hunting for a dog is unnatural is showing a complete lack of understanding for dogs. I own Parson Russell Terriers, I don't work them although they come from working stock. Believe me their instinct is well and truely alive. They will hunt if they have the chance. It is so inbred that it will tak emany generations to breed out.
The main problem I have with banning hunting is a poorly worded bill resulting in innocent people who have no intention of hunting gettiong caught up in the law just because their dog has chased a rat in the woods. It seems that it is the dogs that are the problem rather than the hunting although when you listen to the anti hunt people its the hunt they want stopped.

i didnt mean it was unnatural for dogs to hunt just that its part of their nature to hunt for food in the wild - whereas people who hunt are using the dogs for something they dont need to be doing. I'm sure that they feed their hounds whether or not they find something...?

it's illegal to hunt for great white sharks in most waters.

the way i see fox hunting is the equavelant (cant spell that ) of a fisherman hunting dolphins and saying that he wanted to keep the numbers down cos they kept eating their salmon! - there would be a huge reaction to that because most people see dolphins as lovely creatures.

Who are we to decide whether or not foxes should be killed this way?

the foxes scavenge to eat (as far as i know) and just because we dont like the way they go about it doesnt mean we should play god with the species (unless it was absolutely necessary)
foxes dont hunt humans and any time i've seen one its been running away in parks into the bushes... so why do people make out they are such a threat? and who gave hunters the right to take it upon themselves to kill them? i wouldnt have a problem if the government found foxes to be so much of a pest & decided to humanely keep the population down. It shouldnt be a fun thing to do if u ask me...

what will happen to the dogs if hunting is banned too? do these people love their dogs enough to keep them when theyre not hunting? if they can afford to keep horses and dogs for the purpose of hunting them i would expect there not to be an outbreak of hounds going into rescue centres should that happen.

Some hunts (I think) get paid for killing foxes by land owners, so no hunting - no money - no dogs. Like I say, I THINK that is the case for SOME hunts.

John

What was not sensible in my question

As no one offered I presume no hunting supporters care when this sort of "accident"happens ?

QED

I didn't actualy post to your question Deejay. I posted to IWantAPuppy who seemed to think it a big laugh! I don't. I take the countryside very seriously. We have been down this path before and I for one can't help wondering if it's aim is to stir up trouble again. My views are well known on the board so I do not intend to post on this thread again.

John

Amen to that, John.

I live in a big city (Birmingham) and our resident foxes are a dam nuisance - keep us awake in the night howling, we even can't leave binbags out because they shred them to pieces all over the streets and gardens. I think you'd be quite supprised just how many foxes live in the city - I see them in my garden in broad daylight sometimes, foxes even live under the mobile classrooms at my local school and some of these animals don't seem that frightened of humans because they don't scat when we are around.

I do have strong views on this subject, but like John will not get involved with someone who obviously has done no research whatsoever, comments like 'wondering if they are pedigree hounds that they use' and ' I'm sure that they feed their hounds whether or not they find something...?' really are not questions asked by someone who has a serious interest in this subject.

I guess this is a youngster posting, Ingrid. It's healthy to be curious. The intricacies are many and varied on the debate; people know where I stand as well, so there's little to be gained from stirring it all up again.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

now hey!
Ive never insulted anybody with things i've said i only ever say what i think about subjects and ask what other people think - the reason i dont talk about facts is that it wouldnt leave much room for discussion!
i didnt start this because i wanted to view my 'serious interest' in the subject - i just wondered what everybody thought about it (you dont need to be knowledgable to have an opinion)
It seems to me that people commenting on how "immature" things i've said are are the people who make these kind of things heated and possibly blocked & or deleted by admin
If you cant say your own side without insulting other people on the board then maybe its wise not to post on the subject

this is a discussion board and shouldnt ever need to be censored - dont make it into an argument when its just a place to air your views

i apologise to admin for starting this thread

The problem is not everyones views are the same and if you have strong feelings and a very definite stance on a subject there is bound to be someone whos views are at the other extreme to yours .After all it isn't a discussion if everyone has the same thoughts.Gillian

theres no problem with people posting seperate messages with their own views but theres no need for people to take it so badly that they want to insult other people.
not agreeing doesnt make another person stupid - unless they dont agree with me :) (JOKE! :P)

ok to lighten the mood everyone have a look at
http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/humour5.htm
made me laugh :)

Hounds have pedigrees going back many many generations, and are carefully bred for their health and working ability.
They are pack animals, and hounds having lived this way are not going to adapt to a fireside. They will have to be PTS, a rehoming kennel would be a slow death for them. It is a fact thet hunt staff have not always been able to prevent them from killing a cat, so if an experienced person, who looks after these hounds all day every day cannot control them for that moment, how can far less experienced persons do it?
The urge to hunt in a hound, as in gundogs and working breeds such as Terriors, is in-bred. In fact many animal behaviourists will tell you that the dog needs to forrage all day for food, and us humans feeding them twice a day can upset this balance. This is how a 'buster' ball can work to relieve boredom. Of course the hounds are fed! One fox is hardly likely to fill up a pack of foxhounds!!
As to jobs, well yes a great number of jobs will be lost, and homes as well for hunt staff, the majority of whom live in tied accomadation. Not all jobs are directly attached to the hunt staff, there are sadlers,grooms, corn merchants, farriers, farmers, garages, tailors to name a few who will be directly affected by a ban. Many have wives/husbands to support, and families.
The fox is a dirty animal in that it will not clean itself when injured. So, should it be shot and wounded, and manages to flee, it will die a slow and painful death. Traps are painfull and slow, a fox will attempt to chew its leg off to get out of a trap, then die days later from its infected wounds. Poison and gassing are the most awful, dirty ways to kill anything. Poison stays around for a long time, so if your dog strays off the footpath whos to say it won't pick up poison, or catch a rabbit that has taken poison-the list is endless.
Foxes are not wormed, so carry and drop worms in your backgarden for your children to play in, they carry mange for your dogs to pick up. They will take your pet rabbit or other small animal for fun. They have been known to get into buildings and take young puppies.
The Hunts job is not to kill each and every fox, but to keep the numbers down and thin out the old and sick. There is also a lot of enviromental work done by the hunt and hunting folk.
The Hunt is supported by annual subscriptions, and by events to raise money for the hunt supporters club. Donations are made of oats, straw etc by farmers, but on the whole the collected money pays the hunt staff wages, the upkeep of the hounds and horses, the essential building maintainence, running of vehicles(horse box, fallen animal vehicle) etc.
To the Hunt Staff it is a job of work, the everyday routeen and the hunting days. These people are totally dedicated to their animals, they work in all weathers and do not have 'sicky' days! If they take a day or two off for no really good reason there is no replacement for the job. They are true animal lovers, I can tell you. As is anyone who works at the hard end of animals, be it horses, hounds, rescue kennels or the like. The pay is poor and the hours long, and overtime pay is something city folk get!
It's not a small minority that support hunting, it is a very large majority of folk. There is also a large following of folk who fear that, should this bill be passed private owned dogs are likely to fall to it. An awful lot of farmers do hunt. Where do the followers come from?
This is a debate that will continue until the end of time, or hunting is stopped, along with shooting and fishing. Even more folk on the dole, and chasing council housing that is not there now because all the housing has been sold. There is no right or wrong, because every comment made is correct (if not technically then in passion) by both sides. I support hunting, not in the same way I did when younger and followed the hunt (and, no, I'm not rich and never have been) and will be saddened to see it go, and I honestly think it is the best and kindest way to control the fox population, and it is the hunter hunted. I have seen what the Anti hunt people consider to be fair to stop hounds hunting, and I consider cruel, so ther is good and bad, and hypocracy on both sides.

So are you willing to explain why the hounds killed two geriatric cats to their very elderly owner?
After all they were in her WALLED garden asleep in the sun at the time

This goes to show the point that working foxhounds CANNOT be rehomed as is generally believed. Dogs kill cats its a sad fact but it happens. It has happened to me. It's not the dogs fault.

Agree with Bec - dogs will kill cats; it's not the prerogative of hounds.

I used to keep Kerry Blues; mine were very good tempered, but still managed to kill a cat on more than one occasion - no, not my lack of control, but just turning the corner of a building at the wrong time. The cats were ours; still upsetting, of course it was, but to be honest, I don't think the cat knew much about it.
Yes, you keep thinking, maybe if you'd taken them a different way etc etc..........

Mind you, the cats had killed a fair few of the birds we were feeding, so where does the buck stop?

As our neighbour used to say, 'It's Nature, innit?'

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

So you've had your pet cat torn to pieces in front of you in a garden surrounded by a five foot high wall! by half a dozen out of control stray dogs?
At the same time a farmer found some male hounds(sorry straying dogs) in his farmyard trying to break into his kennels to get at an in seaon bitch fortunately for him he had other dogs & the hounds(sorry straying dogs)legged it at the sight of three male BC'c & their mum
So which of you is going to tell the old lady it's just life & dogs kill cats every day & your pets don't matter because they may have killed birds in their youth(well one had been blind from being a kitten & the other had three legs after an RtA before the lady rescued it)

At last a poster, tripsox, who understands what hunting is about. To anyone who is anti hunting I would like to hear their views on how else they would deal with them. There is no "humane" way to keep them under control. Hunting is not a campaign of hate against foxes, just people trying to keep their own livestock safe from them. If foxes were as unattractive as rats I dont think there would be this looby of "antis".

To anyone who has not seen or experienced lambs stolen as they are being born, a whole barn full of chickens slaughtered because they wanted to eat one, their dogs infected with mange or distemper, I would like to say that foxes do have to be controlled in the countryside and increasingly in the towns. Hunts are financed by the followers who pay an annual or daily fee to hunt with a pack. The enjoyment gained by these followers is not to see a fox killed but the chance to ride over countryside not normally available to them, and to watch the hounds work. The lead hound kills the fox in a moment, like a good terrier killing a rat, and if it is torn apart, it is already dead. Theses albeit beautiful and clever animals are mass murderers and farmers ans smallholders have a rigt to protect thier stock. Gassing, shooting and trapping all cause untold suffering, if one agrees that foxes need to be contolled, this IS the only way that approaches "humane". they either get away clean, ( which believe me is most of the time!) maybe a bit tired but unhurt, or killed very quickly when caught. Thre are no injured half dead foxes staggering around waiting to die of starvation/shock/blood loss/infected shot sites.

The goverments estimation of how many will lose their jobs/livliehood is grossly under estimated. They , like the rest of the "townies" have no idea. Almost every riding school in the country has hunter liveries (boarders), if there are no hunter liveries (the mainstay of some yards in the winter when fewer people come for lessons) this could make the difference to staying solvent or not.The feed merchants, farriers, hay and straw suppliers, saddlers, horse transport firms etc etc and hunt employees will either lose thier jobs, or their companies severely compromised. The knock on effect will be huge. To say nothing of the hundreds of grooms and hunt servants that work in the hunt kennels. As with dogs there are many "disciplines" with horses, and it would be very hard for an individual used to working with hunt horses/hounds to transfer to working in another section of the horse industry. Who cares about the hounds? The hunt servants do. Anyone who thinks a hunting hound can be re-homed to an ordinary home is completely ignorant of them, they would live a life of total misery and make the new owners life a misery too- they WANT to hunt, they have been bred for generations to do it and are used to living in a pack, they dont WANT a fireside and human love to that degree, they just need each other. Make no mistake, many hundreds of hounds, possibly even thousands will be put to sleep if hunting is banned. How many foxes are killed by hounds each year? I bet it would take a long time to kill as many foxes as the hounds that would be shot. To a kennelman, involved in breeding a line of hounds for his whole life, to see them slaughtered, which will undoubtedly happen, would probably finish him completely, much like the farmers losing their stock to F&M. Anyone that has ever been involved with trying to improve a bloodline over many years should be able to understand this - to see your life's work go down the pan. Just because a few fluffy bunnies in Whitehall want to use a subject to get the support of the ignorant (of fox hunting)masses. Sorry about the diatribe, but I had to get this off my chest, surely if one agrees that they need controlling I cannot understand anyone wanting to use methods of control that will undoubtedly induce the possibility of suffering over many days or weeks, which WILL be the results of using methods other than hunting them with hounds.

Well said westie lover. I live in the country and have seen the results of the other methods used. Poison bait left down and taken by pet dogs who then die before getting anywhere near a vet, shot foxes dying in agony from there wounds days after being shot, culling in this way is not a quick clean kill either.
And on another note I have also seen urban foxes being released into the countryside, so have others I know, where they have little or no chance of survival as they are more used to foraging in towns and either starve to death of are killed by other means.

it was interesting to see it from another persons perspectiven which is why i started the thread, so i could see the good side of fox hunting.

the only problem is that most people either agree with one side or agree witht he other and there probably isnt much of a compromise so one lot of people will always be unhappy.

When you say that farmers or people who hunt will lose out if it is banned i think its the same as with any other hobby or job that anybody else has to deal with - not all of us are farmers and we still have problems that threaten our jobs and hobbies. people lose jobs through other things as well but theres not much you can do about it.

I dont always look kindly upon farming opinions because with my experience of farmers i've not found them to be very caring of any animals outside of their farm. And afterall dont farmers breed animals to sell for meat?(not all i know) so killing a fox because it steals sheep that may otherwise have been sold for meat seems like a contradiction in itself...so why should we be helping farmers to kill their animals by killing more animals?
We used to have a farmer nearby who would shoot at dogs/cats or even kids if they entered a field through a bush and it ran alongside a footpath which was beside at least 5 closes with at least 20 houses in each close. Obviously on occasion a young child could find his way through a thin bush! every working person has things which threaten their employment and their livelyhood but we cant all shoot whatever it is to get rid of it.

RSPCA centres take in wild injured foxes and release them when they're better - but they dont take in wild rats - if we make donations to the rspca to look after foxes then why are other people paying to hunt foxes?
surely it has to be one thing or the other. I'm not commenting on which i would prefer just that foxes need to be in one bracket or the other - not both as they are at the moment.....

ok i know its become a little heated over stating the facts so i found a very interesting fact about how fox hunting is claimed to control the population of foxes in the wild...

In 1999 the government ordered an inquiry into fox hunting and the effects it would have on the economy should a ban take place - the inquiry didnt recomment whether or not fox hunting should be banned it just researched the techniques and how it would effect communities...
check http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/huntingreport.htm if you want to read up!
The fact that i found most interesting was:-

the overall contribution of traditional foxhunting, within the overall total of control techniques involving dogs, is almost certainly insignificant in terms of the management of the fox population as a whole.

and it also says that:-

shooting, however, has a much greater capacity to reduce fox populations

these two were pulled from the Effectiveness of the different methods 5.36

Banning fox hunting would clearly have an impact on the people who do it and a number of jobs would probably be lost through it or at least effected by it in some way or another. But as it implies there are better ways of controlling the fox population.

Probably more efficient but not necessarily kinder

Shooting foxes is an art and needs to be carried out by a skilled marksman who will get the job done quickly and efficiently.

Leigh

Toptally agree Leigh. To all those who say shooting a fox is the best way, if your think it is a quick painless death then may I suggest the next tinme you have an elderley dog would you.
a. let him run through a field and hope the guy with the gun is a good aim
or
b. Have it humanely put to sleep
Most experienced shooters will tell you the cahnces of hitting a fox and killing instantly with one shot are very low. Yes maybe this would be more efficient in the numbers controlled however the process from shot to death could be over a week.

On another note, whilst I grew up in the country and have horses most of my life I never hunted myself, my choice. However I saw a 13yr old friend who kept her horse Aladdin on the same yard as me spend 8 months in hospital with severe back injuries. Her horse was blinded in one eye and suffered serious life threatening cuts to it's neck. Her pony never recovered fully and was a complete nervous wreck that only adults were able to handle him.

Why.............because she took him on a hunt and the animal loving, save the fox protestors, decided a great way to stop the horses and hounds was throw bottle, sticks with nails embedded, bricks etc....
Whose the more caring animal lover - certainly not these people.

I have been in hospital having major surgery & only came out yesterday so missed all this excitement!!!!!!
At least there seems to be a sensible person or two who has a true understanding of hunting and hounds. I won't say too much as I may burst my stitches with anger, but I would just add that I work my hands to the bone every hour I can just to pay to keep my horse so I can hunt in the winter. My 3 best friends who I go with are the house wife wife of an electrician, my vet and my neighbour who is an odd job man who sells logs and tidies gardens for a living. I'm not sure which social category we fall in but none of us have evr been to a royal garden party!!!! we all have pet dogs,cats etc we adore and we all understand the needs of animals. There were so many untruths in some of the posts I have read, but I am really not fit enough to sit at my screen & try & go through them individually, may be in a few weeks I will be.Finally, why does everyone talk of banning "fox hunting" when the suggested Bill is to cover ALL HUNTING, that includes mink, beagling & stag hunting. It also includes the squirrels your dog chases in the park!

Chill Sam, you haven't missed any Excitement at all :-)

Sorry to hear that you have been in hospital. Hope you are feeling better soon.

Leigh

No excitement, just someone reviving an argument that has been done many times before.

i didnt know champdogs existed when the 'old argument' was had so believe me i'm not reviving it :P

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Sam.
From
Mair

Sam I hope you are soon feeling better.

Take Care.

Thank you for all your get well wishes, they are much appreciated. 3 months off work will give me lots of time to post on champdogs!!!!!!:D

Hi sam, though we've "crossed swords" before, I wish you a very speedy recovery, I've had the odd op myself and know how it takes it out of you. Get well soon.

thanks westie lover.
Thought the others might like to know that the Beaufort (thats a hunt by the way!!!) raised forty thousand pounds for local charity last month. How much did the league against cruel sports raise for their local community?
( I must be feeling better already as I had made a mental note not to get dragged into this debate after my two penneth worth this morning!!!!!) ;)

lol good for you :)
3 months off work..bliss

i had a work party last night (with a work tab behind the bar) i could do with 3 months to recover... or at least today off! ;)

i'm finding out the hard way that champagne and spirits just do not like each other...eurgh

When you get your new puppy who will be in in the day to look after her if you are out at work all day?,just being nosy as they need so much attention,thats not to say you shouldnt work but when we find homes for our young rescued labs we dont like them to be left all day as usually its a recipe for trouble,hope you dont mind me asking just curious.