Please tell me there are other dogs that didn't just 'grow out of' mouthing!!

Collie/labx Salty is now 8 months old (well beyond puppy mouthing licence), I've posted here before about his mad fits :rolleyes:.  He's hit adolescence in the last few weeks (not peeing like a girl any more :) ) and I've noticed a worsening in his mouthing behaviour which I SO hoped he was going to grow out of.  He was awful as a pup, so we followed the advice in The Bite Stops Here and he improved dramatically but never quite stopped, and now he's gone down hill again.  It's mostly me and OH that he does it to but it's horrible not being quite able to trust him with people he meets, and we have to be so wary round children.  I don't really want to have to muzzle him :( as he's really not agressive, just still very boisterous.

I know (most of) the situations where he's likely to do it - e.g. frustration when I'm trying to teach him something new and he doesn't quite 'get it'. OK, so get him to do something he can do so he feels good about himself. But I can't always avoid situations where he's over excited or frustrated - he just has to learn that mouthing is NOT acceptable and having spent the last 6 months trying to teach him that, I'm at a bit of a dead end.  He's also started nibbling us, bruised arms as well as legs now :rolleyes: (We got him at 8 weeks so he was with his littermates for a reasonable time, and he's been pretty well socialised with other dogs since then, I think common reasons for being very mouthy?)  

Is it time to try and find a trainer so that I can learn how to deal with it?  I could only find 3 in my area on apdt website (Edinburgh/East Lothian), and the chances of having specific collie knowledge (which I think could be part of the 'problem', he also nips our heels sometimes) could be small. He goes to good training classes but the recommended 'ouch' really doesn't work for him, just sends him madder.

My Jozi when I had her back at 8 1/2 months was a mega mouther. 

I found I needed stronger more negative methods to stop it.

When she came at me all grabby and playing the clown, I would spray water in her face.  She would keep coming but trying to get around the water in the face and it was a bit of a battle of wills.  You must stay absolutely calm.

At other times if she just started chewing on me like a chew toy I would ball up my fist and push down into her mouth, also using thumb nail to press into her tongue, all things designed to make her gag and want to spit out that hand.  Again absolute calm and Low key praise and maybe a treat for compliance.

she literally had no self control.

She is now nearly 8 (years) and finally has calmed down, though will still grab clothes etc in the ring.  At one time I had  to have the water squirter in my pocket to threaten her with to stop her tripping me up by grabbing my legs or clothes.  Difference being I can now say enough and she stops.

I must admit that i would like to see advice about this topic in particular, because our puppy is very excitable he does this all the time aswell!:rolleyes:

You need to teach the pup self control.  This means not exciting the dog at all by being over enthusiastic. 

Encourage your dog to chill around people, if needed put a lead on and make it settle by your side and only stroke in slow calming strokes. 

Keep your voice low and speak slowly.  No quick movements around the dog or high pitched voices (children are designed to wind pups up, and that was Jozi's problem).

No eye contact or interaction as soon as signs of getting excited start.

When coming in after being away from the dog ignore her totally until all signs of excitement have dissipated and then give low key attention.

Same when getting the lead to go out, no led until the dog is perfectly calm.

Angels2, I don't know how old your pup is but if he's just a few months then I recommend this article http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm  which I got from this forum.  I think most pups do gain self control, just a few that don't!  Thanks for the ideas Brainless, will try the water spray.  It's funny, my parents came round today, Salty went mad as usual but my dad said he does actually notice he's calming down a bit.  Yay!!!  (e.g. he actually sat when asked when they arrived, even if it was a very 'wriggly' sit, squirming all over the place desperate to jump up.  He still did his Jaws act though :rolleyes: )

Well sounds lie he is trying to control himself, so lots of low key praise for that,a and you just got to get him to understand that he must not put his teeth on people.

Something that you post reminded me of is to teach your dog something incompatible with the unwanted behaviour, like you got him to sit instead of jumping up.  Some people would encourage a mouthy pup to hold something else like a toy, to redirect their behaviour and need to mouth.

Of course this then gives you a reason to praise him for getting it right instead of nagging at him for getting it wrong all the time.

Good luck.

Thanks for the link, its funny but he is actually doing it less than he used to and i noticed that today he only did it a couple of times. He doesn't actually do it to everyone only to us not visitors...

Think i am a bit of a softie though so i must be a bit firmer with him!

We are going back to training this week so i think that will help also.

hi my friend had alot of problems with her cocker with this and she still has not managed to stop him. i know you said you tryed  'ouch' but if you cry out as if you are in pain do you not get any reation from him. my dog trainer recommended a special coller and also a clicker that made a high pitched noise, you could also try that. my puppy used to do it, but after seeing how my friends cocker turned out we used to hold her nose everytime she mouthed and she soon never mouthed again.

The crying out will usually only work with very young or sensitive pups.,  A pup pig headed/thick skinned enough to still be doing this at this age is likely to ignore the cries or find them exciting and increase the behaviour.

Is he actually nipping?  You mentioned that he is part Lab.  Labs are retrievers, bred to retrieve game.  Any Lab breeder will tell you that they have or had dogs that will actually take your hand in their mouth and "lead" you.  Im just wondering if it is something like this only he does not even understand it yet himself.  Try to always keep a toy or chew handy and when he starts to mouth, put the toy or chew in his mouth instead.  When they are tiny, its cute but big puppies are not so cute.  Thankfully our lad is now past that stage.  Our last Lab that we had, right to he went to the Rainbow bridge aged 14 years, would take your hand iin his mouth to "lead" you.
Brandy

One of our dogs mouthed until about a year old - he did grow out of it eventually - try putting lemon juice on your wrists and hands - you'll be far less 'tasty' to your pup.