I have never been in this position before.  I have a dog that is doing really well anyway she won a novice class but some very sad little person has checked through all my results and she shoulnt have been in there as the cut of day was 3 days before she became overqualifed.  Hope that is clear!  I am going to ring the secretary as I had no idea to be honest.  Will that disqualify her for the best puppy she got?  She didnt just win novice she won puppy as well.

My main problem is I have also entered her for novice at Windsor and will I have to transfer her into open or can I just withdraw her from Novice but still go into puppy.  Bearing in mind she is a 8 month old puppy I obviously dont want to do that.  I might just leave her at home.

Sorry its a bit involved.

Mmmm that's a bummer isn't it.

Well I'm trying to figure it out and am not sure on the rules for the previous show - who else was in Novice - puppies too?

Re: Windsor I think - not 100% - but sure someone else knows and be nice to know if I am right - that you can withdrawal from Novice and still go in to Puppy (if you are entered in that as well) - no need to transfer to Open.

By cut off date do you mean entries closing or a week before entries closing?

As for windsor, the same applies and if she is over qualified then you will have to transer her into open.  if you withdraw her and she wins her other classes she will not be able to compete for any further awards.

Sorry I knew it was confusing the way I wrote it!  The cut of date is the day in the schedule which shows the date to which all awards were calculated!

I cannot believe somebody is so sad that they would go through our lists of wins to find out what we done.

Yikes a 8 month old puppy in open I think I am going to cry.

Do bear in mind though that if you win your puppy class, even if you are unplaced in Open, you can still challenge as an unbeaten puppy - so, I'd just take it on the chin and make a joke of it if I were you.

What a shame, such an easy mistake to make.

M.

Sorry, if you were overqualified 7 days before the closing date you will be disqualified as winner of Novice but may not be disqualified from your best puppy win, that will depend on the KC.

As to Windsor I would contact the secretary and explain what has happened and be guided by her, it may be too late to change your entry if the catalogues have been printed but never mind if you win puppy you will still be able to challenge for best puppy and you never know the judge may like you, make allowance for your being a puppy and you may be surprised at the result.

One in the eye for whoever stirred up a fuss if you get a SBN from your exhibiting in Open.

EDIT to say it will be too late to change your entry for Windsor, time flys, did not realise how close it was.

I agree and normally that is what I would do however the judge loves my champion bitch and what I dont want to do is spoil my daughters chances by being in the same class.  What I am most irritated about is if the little love had pointed it out to me at border Union I am 99% sure she would have been in the top 3 and I would have got her stud book number. 

Isnt dog showing fun.

x

Never mind sounds as if you have a flyer there anyway so he who laughs last etc.

Don't worry, there is always someone like that more than likely jealous. Fair enough you made a mistake not sure what is best to do though, but if she is wins Puppy and is then in Open you can still go in for best puppy it's s tricky one. By the way many congrat's of her Best Puppy in Breed on the weekend she is on a roll. :)

Thanks BB I know I am still in shock over the weekend.  Cant believe two best puppies in 3 days.  I wouldnt mind but I am so careful normally I moved madam up to open at Southern Counties to ensure if we did win anything nobody could complain.

Himself was stewarding for a well known beagle judge on Sunday I told him to keep his views on beagles to himself as she was judging a stakes class in the future. :)

Are you sure she is overqualified.

the rules are that the wins up to 7 days before the postal entries close for a show are copunted.

For Novice this would be any classes after winning 3 at Open or champ shows that are not puppy classes.

I think if the dog is a puppy then it stays in puppy, but the otehr class woudlb e scrapped.  Moving to Open when a mistake is made only applies if the dog is not in age classes.

Yes sadly she definately was over qualified as she had won two lots of maiden and novice at club shows in her first two weeks of showing.  The problem I had was she was a bit of a ugly bug and I usually send my entries in well in advance not expecting her to win anything and now she has gone on a roll.  Cant believe though she was overqualifed by just 3 days or 10 days before entries close!!!! 

I hope you are right as I really dont want to ruin my daughters chances in open and to be honest I dont want to leave her at home although given the choice I will leave her out of the classes. 

Just to clarify is she entered at Windsor in Puppy and Novice at the moment?

I would give the secretary at Windsor a call as suggested and see what they advise - it would be a shame if you have to transfer to open from Novice though - and not just withdrawing as not eligible?

Hope you find out regarding the other show you were not qualified to enter - you are doing really well though and obviously having lots of fun :) :)

I was going to give the secretary at Border Union a ring as I suspect the person concerned will probably do it anyway and I just feel it was a genuine mistake and also Windsor secretary.

I wish people wouldnt try to be so petty.  I dont think it has actually dawned on them that A. their bitch is two years old and still qualified for Novice and B. she prefered my bitch in the first place!!!  It should be a bit of fun not a matter of life of death. :)

But at the same time rules are rules and it isn't fair when some people do alot of winning in classes they shouldn't be in.  At least this person has told you and yes we all make mistakes but you knew your bitch was over qualified?

At the weekend my mum enterd two ogs the wrong way round putting the PG bitch in Open and the Open bitch in PG, we ended up with the 3 dogs in one class, luckily we had enough handlers!  But if you knew you had made a mistake you should have corrected it, if you didn't then hold your head high, learn from it and let those with two year old dogs in novice have their fun at a show and not constantly being beaten by those who go in all lower classes chasing JW points with the future top winners! ;)

I agree. I would have done the same if somebody was ineligible for a class.

You hardly have to go searching for results when the British dalmatian club have them openly on their website, which makes it quite clear for all to see any body's wins. 
Also when people are in the same class you tend to notice when you have been beaten by a dog a few times!

When you are in the wrong class and do not transfer you are in-eligible to go for best puppy. 
If you are in open and not beaten by another puppy you are allowed to challenge for BP. 

Rules are quite clear and it is the exhibitors responsibility to ensure they are being upheld.
We all have to sign at Every show to say this and that it will be upheld. 

If you are confident that the judge likes your dog you will have no problem going in open.  If your daughter wins they can still ask for the second dog to go back in the ring - if she is liked. 

You cannot expect the rules to be changed for you when months after being over qualified you are still entering the same classes. 
It seems to me You are in the wrong Not upholding the rules.
Why should other exhibitors suffer because of this ? 
If all dogs were meant to be judged in the same class then they would be.
All that you are doing is preventing dogs who are worthy of the judges opinions from receiving them. 

Just because people deliberately choose to enter shows months in advance does not change the fact you are in the wrong doing so.     

Rules are in place for a reason. 
I suggest if you are unclear of elligability you either ask the KC or ask the ring steward/secretary at shows !!!

I suggest you look at your own show entry procedure instead of how old other peoples dogs are in the same class !

Must admit I've almost fallen foul of this problem. 

Had my boy entered in ND and between sending the entry and the show date he won out.  I informed the show sec prior to the show and as soon as I realised he had won out.  Thankfully his win was before the date for calculating wins so we were OK.  It is something that I am now more aware of.

I had a habit of entering shows way way in advance.  I now try to hold off until the very last date so I can be sure I'm entering the correct classes.

Cheers

Vicky

> Thankfully his win was before the date for calculating wins so we were OK.

I think you mean after the date for calculating wins otherwise he would not have been eligible ;-)

Meow !!!!

>When you are in the wrong class and do not transfer you are in-eligible to go for best puppy

I do suggest that you read the KC F regs that govern conformation shows F(1)30(b)

A dog shall be disqualified by the General Committee from any awards gained whether as objection has been lodged or not if entered in a class for which it is not eligible & not withdrawn from competition or transferred in accordance with the provisions of RegulationF(1)9.k & the exhibitor may be fined at the discretion of the General committee

The award that is disqualified is not the puppy class win nor the best puppy but the class for which the dog is not eligible for.

There is no need to transfer the dog to another class if he/she is entered in another class in the breed that it is eligible for. The dog can simply be withdrawn from the class it is not eligible for.F(1)20.a & F(1)9.k(1)

It is easy to make mistakes-what is the saying ?"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

> I think if the dog is a puppy then it stays in puppy, but the otehr class woudlb e scrapped.  Moving to Open when a mistake is made only applies if the dog is not in age classes.

You are perfectly correct Barbara

Moonmaiden - apologies for deviating a bit but you seem a good person to ask!

I have a breed without CC's, does that mean we can't 'win out'?  Our usual breed classes are Puppy, Junior, PG and Open.

There are two open shows coming up with classes I've not encountered before:
AV class for special beginners - this is for dog and handler who have never won a CC.  Can I enter this?  Would we always be able to go in this class if we cannot win a CC anyway?
Novice - this is one where the wins do count so presumably I shouldn't enter til after the wins calculation date?

Thanks

Thanks for pointed that out - yes I meant after the date - was early when I posted - lol

Just a quick ??? - if you withdraw from a breed class (ie. injury, wrong class entered etc..) can you then go forward at the same show for further competition (BPIS, AV etc...) or by withdrawing from that breed class are you withdrawing from the whole show?

I know you can withdraw from AV classes but I didn't realise you could withdraw from breed classes and then compete further

Not Moonmaiden but yes as the rules for beginners  are   the dog and handler have never won a CC.
Then you are correct in thinking that breeds that are not awarded CC's will never win out.
Edited to add unless the handler goes on to take a CC with a different breed LOL

You can only withdraw from a breed class if the dog is over age, over qualified-not injured(obviously you wouldn't have to take the dog in if it was injured)

I do recommend newbies(& oldies)investing £1.50 & buying the F Regs booklet from the KC it covers all the rules & regs that refer to breed showing I'm lucky I get the full Regs every year as a Show Sec

> Novice - this is one where the wins do count so presumably I shouldn't enter til after the wins calculation date?

You can enter before the qualifing date if you don't have any other shows before the qualifying date or the classes your dog is entered in don't count towards winning out(AV class wins only count against AV classes & Minor Puppy & Puppy classes don't count towards Novice)hope that makes sense