So, basically the title, if i have paid for the entry, submitted the forms... But near the day my bitch come in season, would i have to leave the show, and attended a different show when she came out of season?

You can show her although if it's an open show with a mixed sex class, i would strongly recommend you don't show her.   If it's a championship show, I would keep her well out of the way until her class is on.

It depends on if you feel it is moral right, there is nothing against showing an in season bitch but it will upset the other dogs and bitches and may make you very unpopular.

IMO you may be risking infection taking a bitch to a show as her womb is open and she could pick up almost anything from the benching or the grass, better tucked up at home and next time you may be able to only enter shows when she is not in season.

You can, but I personally wouldn't.  I and many others with males find it really annoying if there's someone showing a bitch in season.

It upsets bitches too so not something which will make you popular amongst your fellow exhibitors.

I think it's totally unfair to show an in season bitch.  It makes all the dogs (both sexes) sniff the floor.  Makes dogs not move in the way that they normally would etc.  At Birmingham National my SWD wouldn't move in the ring, I'm sure that there'd been an in season bitch in the ring before us.

I had a same problem at the National, we were the last day and there were several bitches in my breed alone I saw in season my boy was a nightmare to show. I don't show my bitch when she is in season, just don't think it's fair wouldn't be happy leaving her on a bench either.

Said it before and will say it again - there will ALWAYS be bitches in season at shows. There may be a lot less if refunds were made, but there will still be exhibitors who show them. If mine is in season and I have paid my money for a champ show, I will still go. Its down to personal choice.

>I don't show my bitch when she is in season, just don't think it's fair wouldn't be happy leaving her on a bench either.

I never did either. I think it's really unsporting and inconsiderate. Yes, it's a pain to lose the entry fee, but hey! You've saved on the petrol money! No piece of card or ribbon is worth causing that much unpleasantness.

I'gve never seen unpleasantness over a bitch in season at a show - theres much more over the "wrong" exhibit getting the ticket!

I only have dogs but I dont have an issue with people showing bitches in season at champ shows where the classes are split, as long as they are considerate and dont wave their bitch in my boys face !!  It must be a nightmare having bitches, they have seasons, then they drop their coats, they are out for months if they have a litter - owners would lose out on so much if they didnt show them when in season.

I agree Fillis, ive never heard anyone complain about a bitch in season.

There is also a problem for the bitch owner when your bitch is not in season but about to come in (as at Birmingham national a neighbouring boy was very keen, and she came in next day (early by at least 3 weeks) and now I am debating whether to take her to Southern counties as she has just finished, but may still be attractive to males.

Between seasons and lost coats it is very hard to get bitches in the ring looking their best, especially with having to make entries so far ahead.

In my breed if you mate a bitch from her season to when she is showable again will take 8 months.

Its kind of selfish as well, kinda like asking your wife to go and do something hard duty when shes feeling ill, I know what I would say if my OH asked me to do anything when I was feeling off!

The bitches in season ive seen at shows have been loving it - its a big chance to flirt, although I suppose it depends which day they are on.

I guess it depends on your bitch, mine is a sensitive wee girl I guess some wouldn't mind been at a show, her welfare comes first. I have one dog who I don't show goes crazy for a bitch in season (no idea why as he had never been used and won't ever be). He's that kind of temperment I guess can get quite wound up about things and a bit over the top.

Having shown dogs, I agree that it can be a pain when someone has had an in season bitch in the ring  before you, exhibiting when your dogs nose is superglued to the ground doesn't give the best impression :-D . However, knowing when your bitch is coming into season isn't an exact science and given the cost of a championship show entry and the fact that entries have to be made so far in advance I do think that shows should make some allowance for this eg by returning half the entry fee when a bitch is withdrawn due to being in season (on production of a note from a vet or whatever) or allowing the entry to be passed forward to the next show.
Given that this is unlikely to happen its no surprise that people do take in season bitches along - however annoying or inappropriate others may find it!

Also disgusting for the judges to go over them in my opinion!

>I do think that shows should make some allowance for this eg by returning half the entry fee when a bitch is withdrawn due to being in season (on production of a note from a vet or whatever) or allowing the entry to be passed forward to the next show.

Great Idea this

Show entry fee - @ £21   if half refunded - £10.50

Vet visit and note £30+  (definitely more as they will charge for writing the note ;) )

Out of pocket for bitch in season £40 min

If they forward the entry to the next show, the likelyhood is that the bitch would be in season then too! - sod's law ;)

I have taken a bitch to a Ch Show while in-season, but wouldn't if she was 'ready'.  With careful precautions the dogs paid LESS attention to her than if she hadn't been in season!  Even the dog who normally goes mental for her completely ignored her and was calm all day!

Of course, for your own breed the dogs are in before the bitches but what about the breeds that are to follow you that day and maybe the following days. One of my dogs can't be benched because someone benched an in season bitch next to him when he was a junior, he tried to get to her and pulled the metal partition down on himself, it terrified him and I have never got him back on a bench since.

I have actually had to ask a steward to wipe amber blood of the floor at an open show, how can a rosette be that important.

Great Idea this

Well you would need to prove in some way the bitch was in season or anyone who didn't fancy travelling for whatever reason could then withdraw their entry and reclaim their money :-D . They could always forward the entry money to be used for any dog entered by the exhibitor. It is an unfair system for those who show bitches but while everyone complains about those who show in season bitches, no one actually tries to make it easier for them to withdraw than to go along anyway. So people either have to accept that there is no regulation against in season bitches being shown and stop moaning (and dare I say bitching :-D :-D )about it or they have to ban it and give a refund IMHO.
I have no axe to grind either way as I don't show any dogs now but I can understand why some exhibitors would want to attend if their bitch was in season and they had paid a fortune to enter!

It would only need a simple rule change to go along with the one about not showing a dog who's been in contact with infectious disease less than 21 days prior to the show. You lose you entry fee if you obey that rule - why should being in season be any different, especially now that it's easier to show a spayed bitch?

Fillis, you wouldn't believe the names I've heard people being called when it's noticed their bitch is in season! And not just by dog owners - other bitch owners don't like being given a bad name. It's not necessarily to ther face, but it causes an extremely unpleasant atmosphere.

Thanks alot to everyone that replied. It's really helped me further understand and see other points of view.

>Fillis, you wouldn't believe the names I've heard people being called when it's noticed their bitch is in season! 

must be a breed thing, it seems to be accepted in our breed.

> I agree Fillis, ive never heard anyone complain about a bitch in season.

Should've come to LMC championship show 2005 when I showed my bitch in Open B in season, although I didn't bring her out of my car until LB was on.   I think it was more sour grapes on behalf of a clique as my bitch did go on to win the RCC & RBIS!   ;-)

I,ve left my girls at home several times due to them being in season even missing Crufts that was a big dissapointment to me but I wouldn,t have it any other way.
I,ve struggled with dogs when bitches have been in season and its no joke .
Also how do we know how the bitch is feeling if they are like us they could feel snappy and grumpy and not want judges going over them and lets face it some judges do give them a good mauling especially some of the ones who have heavily coated breeds.
So I can honestly say I never have and never will knowingly show a bitch who is in season.
Sharon

I would never take a bitch in season to a show.  I also handle males and know how hard it can be to control them when someone has a bitch in season, it upsets other dogs, doesn't make you popular and also it is a risk to the bitch's health.

But some people are only interested in the rossett, like a friend who was stood in a group at a champshow with her boy constanty harrassing the bitch behind him who was "not long out of season and 3 weeks in whelp"  That poor bitch had a long day with breed classses and a group in that state... :(

I have a dog too who's entire so I can sit on both sides of the fence.

I did it for our club championship show but then that was one breed show on one day and we were almost the last class on that day but sitting ringside at a general champ show - is a no-no.

>must be a breed thing, it seems to be accepted in our breed.

It must certainly be a breed thing. My breed's Code of Conduct says in the section about showing: "There are some who should not be at a show at all, most particularly bitches in whelp or those in season."

I'd have to say no to bitches in season.. probably because I have entire males who's characters can change dramatically if they get the slightest hint there's a bitch in season nearby.. they become crazed love machines! And really really hard to get any sort of attention from them, so would definately not show well - not forgetting owners of dogs have paid their entry fee too.

I find it hard to read some of the comments. This is supposed to be a SPORTING Hobby, when I first started showing nearly 30yrs ago it was seriously frowned upon to show a bitch in season.A) It was considered to be both ethically and morally wrong. B) It was also considered to be unfair on the bitch as her hormones would be doing back flips.
Yes it is difficult when showing a bitch, but how many hand on heart are not intending to breed from their bitch EVER? Not always for the improvement of the breed either, sadly some only for the revenue!
I am not in my dotage yet, but there is an old saying "Do as you would be done by" perhaps some of the more ambitious would do well to practise that.
I have always defended the honesty and integrity of the majority of exhibitors, and still believe it to be so. In very extreme cases there might be a time when it was just about acceptable to show a bitch in season, having taken every care that her scent was disguised as much as possible as you hopefully would when exercising her.
What sort of example are we giving the newer exhibitors? I will now go and put on my armour ready for the backlash

We took our ten month old bitch to a breed champ show, so separate dog and bitch rings and unbenched. I was a bit concerned about taking her but as the day went on I noticed that there were quite a few others also in season, she was only in her first week, wouldn't do it later.

I only have bitches to show and they will often bring each other into season, depending who is in the show team at the time, they may not be in season, but will have lived with those currently in. I also come from a breed where their are judges you wish the opinion of and those you don't.  This is also my hobby and one I enjoy and wish to take part in.

I also train my girls - to show - when we get in the ring, or even at a show, they know what is expected of them.

I wish I could say the same for the exhibitors (not in my breed) and already on here in their posts :-D who do not train their males, but continually blame everyone else for their lack of ability to handle their dogs in the ring and get their dogs to show properly.  And I would ask, is a card so important to them that they bring their ill mannered dogs out, towing them everywhere, weeing up everything, facing up to others, and all excused by the fact their was possibly a bitch in season somewhere in the county ;-)  Training ladies, control and training :-)

LOL at Sarah -as you have only bitches presumably you have never tried doing anything with an entire male dog when an in season bitch is near?? Instinct takes over.

Doesn't make me laugh.  I have an extremely strong male and instinct works in him too whether the bitches are a week, two weeks down the line.

Sorry to me a ticket etc. is not that important that I need to spoil it for others, but there again I'm also a person who couldn't care less whether I win or lose as I just simply enjoy the day out.  So I have in all the years that I've shown, which is many never taken an in season bitch to a show.

> I wish I could say the same for the exhibitors (not in my breed) and already on here in their posts  who do not train their males, but continually blame everyone else for their lack of ability to handle their dogs in the ring and get their dogs to show properly.

My boys ARE trained, and always behave impeccably and show great BUT as Marianne said instinct does take over completely, the urge to reproduce is very very strong, and I think the majority of entire males tend to forget all their training if an in season bitch is nearby.

I agree with you marion, and I'm sure many others here do too.

I'm always amazed that people show bitches in season (I would hazard a guess that many of these people are the very same people who will exercise their in season bitch in areas where the know for a fact there will be males off lead). It is 100 times worse than the people who throw bait all over the floor, or who squeak a toy non-stop - I'm sure most people here would be peeved if someone was doing just that and consider it very bad manners. A bitch in season is far worse imo.

>> I wish I could say the same for the exhibitors (not in my breed) and already on here in their posts  who do not train their males, but continually blame everyone else for their lack of ability to handle their dogs in the ring and get their dogs to show properly.

>My boys ARE trained, and always behave impeccably and show great BUT as Marianne said instinct does take over completely, the urge to reproduce is very very strong, and I think the majority of entire males tend to forget all their training if an in season bitch is nearby.

Nope, you have just proved my post, thanks :-D

>who do not train their males, but continually blame everyone else for their lack of ability to handle their dogs in the ring and get their dogs to show properly.

Sarah, has it not occurred to you that these dogs are used as stud dogs? If they don't react to a bitch in season it spells disaster for the breed!

Thing is people will show their bitches in season, they will come away with the excuses:
'She's just come in today' (Amazing that!)
'She's just finished'
'Another dog she kennels with is in season'

So you either like it or lump it!  At least I'm honest enough to say I've done it albeit at a single breed championship show and kept the bitch away until her class, it's the excuses when you know your male dog is telling you there's a bitch in season around but the owner denies it totally, just be honest, then we can all treat you like a leper!  ;-)

My dog got his older sister when he was a pup and he knows where the bitches are in season at a show but I've never had a problem showing him in the ring, he knows when to concentrate on me.

>'She's just come in today' (Amazing that!)

That I can believe, because my bitch did exactly that! She was fine when we set off, and was dripping when we arrived at the showground 3 hours later! We went straight home again (it was a Ch show too, so a sizeable entry fee to lose).

A few points ;-)

If 'all' dogs were affected there would be chaos and bedlam at shows, not all dogs are affected, so I consider it all comes down to control and training!

Christine shows a HPR breed that air scents, she can control her dog - he has also been used at stud - doesn't stop her controlling him

Both the breed record holders in my breed were unaffected in the ring, experienced stud dogs too.

As you walk around a show you see see rings full of dogs behaving, you then come across one or two people with a gripe, start asking yourselves, are you one of these people with a gripe?  In your breed is it always the same person/people with the gripe? Does everyones dog get affected in your breed or only yours/the same peoples every time? Bet you soon recognise it is a few people only, and often with all their dogs.  Funny that.

And Jeanjeanie, your answer just defies logic, are you suggesting that a stud should be encouraged at all opportunities to misbehave in case he loses his ability to mate - surely that would just lead to an unlivable with dog! Good studs also need behavioural training.

And out of interest, if your dogs are so affected why are you putting them through the stress of showing if a card means nothing?  Oh that's right, it's only the bitch owners that should miss out lol

Sarah, I used to show bitches, and hope to again, and I still think that it's wrong and unsporting to take a bitch in season to a show. It's no better than waving bitsof steak at other people's dogs in the ring to put them off!

>not all dogs are affected

Not all dogs are good stud dogs.

>In your breed is it always the same person/people with the gripe? Bet you soon recognise it is a few people only, and often with all their dogs.

No. Even if people are only spectating and not showing at all they disapprove, because they recognise that it's unsporting behaviour. Perhaps that's the difference between my breed and yours?

>Both the breed record holders in my breed were unaffected in the ring, experienced stud dogs too.

Not all dogs are experienced enough to know when a bitch is at the right time for mating. Inexperienced ones can become very upset, and this can naturally also cause squabbles in the ring between the dogs.

>are you suggesting that a stud should be encouraged at all opportunities to misbehave in case he loses his ability to mate

Mating isn't 'misbehaving' - it's a dog doing its job. Only a fool would want to discourage a dog from reacting to a bitch. Yes, they can be controlled, but they will always be aware of the distraction and won't be at their best. Perhaps that's why some bitch owners do it - they think it's a way to nobble the opposition for BoB?

My pup personally has problems with bitches in season, he is very inexperienced and sometimes even the smell of any bitch is too much for him to take..
My only gripe is mainly with open shows and your all in the ring together and on grass, had this recently and boy was he difficult to move and also his nose was stuck to the ground and it took a lot for him to stand and have any focus on me, he did do it eventually and at 12 months old ended up VHC in a Post Grad class of 12. So it can still be done and i think that any decent judge should look beyond those who bring bitches in season and how it affects the dogs and make allowances for the dogs. It is in their nature to be interested in the bitch.

He's only been to one champ show and we were first in the ring on the day so no issues there.
Its each to their own, but i have less of an issue at Champ shows if there was a choice, open shows are worse, tend to be on grass and then all in the ring together, and what really will your bitch achieve by winning, there are no CC's, so for a rosette, not worth it really..

If i had a bitch she wouldn't be attending a show in season, it is in my opinion very unsporting and we are doing this for fun right?? It is sometimes just as upsetting for the bitch with dogs trying to get to her as it is teasing the dogs with the scent..

There will always will be those who bring their bitches in season to shows unless the KC puts a total ban on it, which i doubt they will. Either way someone is going to loose out if you have a bitch, to bring or not to bring...

We were at a champ show recently & there had been an in-season bitch in the ring in the breed before us. Even with 15 mins break every dog in our breed still went round the ring with his nose to the ground. I show my dog stacked, whilst kneeling on the ground. Even 3 hours later a couple of the dogs were still VERY interested in my leg so could still smell it then.

Think this may be a breed difference, there are those who are trained to stand like a stuffed toy and move like toy soldiers, no offence meant can't think of any other way to explain. Then there are those who are positively encouraged to show in a natural way, I can see if your breed is like the first then perhaps it would make not too much difference if a bitch was flaunting herself in their vicinity, but then again if she was of the same breed perhaps she would not flaunt. However the natural breeds will inevitably behave naturally.

That's a very good point, Jackie. My breed are always shown free-standing; they're never stacked, and they're shown on a loose lead, not strung up. If a breed is shown stacked and virtually in a death-grip by the handler then unwanted movement by the dog is more easily controlled.

You and me both JG, in fact if you control the dogs the judge asks you to let it be, so there is nothing you can do if your dear little teenage lad decides the highly scented bitch two rings away is more interesting than the liver in your pocket.

> If a breed is shown stacked and virtually in a death-grip by the handler

Yep, cos it's really easy to string up a 32kg Large Munsterlander!!!!!!  A dog will stack if it wants to, if it doesn't then the terms 'rocking horse' & 'bucking bronco' come into play - it's not as easy as you think!!!  If a dog doesn't want to show, it won't show.

I'd still like to know Sarah -so HAVE you shown entire males with in season bitches nearby, or are you just assuming you could do it? I show both bitches and dogs and it is a world of difference.