Hi

I'm a little confused and wondered if someone could please help.

At many open shows we attend there is no breed classes for ESS so we enter one of the AV Gundog classes.  If judged on the group system and we win Best AV Gundog does this allow us to go in for the group?  If not on the group system does this allow us to go in for BIS?

Sometimes there appears to be no AVNSC Gundog only the AV. 

I really can't get my head around the difference - HELP!!!!

Thanks
Vicky

As not previously having to go into these classes as my other breed usually has breed classes I've never had to worry about this, but next year I'll have to.  I don't understand it either  It seems rather unfair that you can't go into BIS if there's not AVNS classes.

If there is AV Gundog classes and if the show IS judged on the Group system, you can't go in for BIS.  If the show ISN'T judged on the Group system then it's all unbeaten dogs in for BIS.  Most shows judged on the Group system will have AVNSC Gundog but some have only AVNSC (all unclassified breeds from all groups in together) from which you must win Best AVNSC to go into your relevant Group.

Clear as mud :d

Debs

If the show is based on the group system there must be an AVNSC class scheduled - however, there doesn't need to be one for each group, just a general one will do.  The winner of that will go into the relevant group.  At a group show only best of breed and best NSC winners can go through to the groups.  If you only enter an AV class at a group show you can't go through as you've not been in breed/nsc. 

If it's not on the group system then any unbeaten dog can go into the group - this will enable anyone entering AV classes and winning them to go through to the bun fight.  Non group shows don't have to schedule an NSC class at all.

Hope that makes sense, but probably not!

Kate

That seems unfair as in theory you could have the potential winners of all 7 groups in that AVNSC class but only oen with the chance to compete.  Surely if it is on the group system they must ahve AVNSC for each group?  Have only seen mixed AVNSC at non group shows.

sadly no, and it happens at champshows too - off the top of my head Border Union schedule one lot of AVNSC for the groups on the day, as do Driffield.

So they do, most unfair.

If it is on the group system then they have to put on an AVNSC for each group, and only the winners of these can go through to the group.  At non group shows it is any unbeaten dog, so you can get the inners in AV classes where there is no beed class, or where they do not have to enter breed such as with Veterans, champions or puppies when no breed puppy class is scheduled.

I am not absolutely sure but I think winning puppies at group shows where there was no breed or AVNSC puppy class can also go through, but not sure.

Thanks so much for all your help it's very much appreciated.

I think I get it now!!

If no breed class on group system enter AVNSC to go through to group, if not on group enter AV Gundog or/and AVNSC.  Thankfully we're almost out of puppy so the confusion regarding that is now irrelevant until we add to the family of course

It's terrible but sometimes I dread a 1st placing because I don't know what to do next!

We're at Ashbourne tomorrow our fourth open show so the nerves are starting to settle a little.  Hope everyone out this weekend has a good time.

Cheers
Vicky x

Correction There has to be an AVNSC, at group shows, but so it seems they don't have to give one for each group :(

So it seems that AVNSC really does stand for Any Variety Not Seriously Considered.  Just realised AVNSc should not really be that, it should be ABNSC  Any BREED Not Seperately classified.