Just curious to how these are accquired really.

I own a small munsterlander, and was talking to one of the owners from the 1st litter who informed me that our breeder (the only one in uk) gave the owners of the 'A' litter stud book numbers of 1-12. The breed was not recognised until april of this year by the kc and there are currently only 15 dogs registered with them - parents and the 'B' litter. Im guessing that you have to apply to the kennel club for stud book numbers and those given to the first litter (who are not kc registered) by the breeder are not real/recognised numbers.

As i say, im just curious.

Sue

A stud book number is given to a dog that has won certain classes at shows, so not sure what the breeder means by "stud number". 

I didn't know that the Small Munsterlander had been accepted by the KC, maybe someone can correct me on this?

The KC will at some point register dogs, as they did when we brought our Spanish in 13 years ago before making an interim standard.

Maybe this was a number that she gave to the "A" litter so that she could advise the KC when the breed is accepted and they know that these were the first dogs originally born over here.

I'm sure someone will be able to advise you more.

Small Munsterlanders cannot - at present - gain Stud book numbers.   I don't know if they are even on the KC's import register yet?  The only way a breed like this could gain a KCSBNo. would be through a win at a Field Trial like a Certificate of Merit, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.   I think some confusion may surround the words stud book number & registration number.

There are various wins at Championship shows (& open shows) that can gain the dog it's Stud book number too but you don't apply to the KC for it, they will send you the appropriate certificate if you 'win' the relevant award.

I believe the Small Munsterlander has been accepted by the KC - just had a quick look on the site and it is on the gundog list - but it has not yet got a breed description on the site.

A KC stud book number is awarded if a is placed in certain classes at Championship shows or wins a CC(s) in breed ring, agility, working trials, obedience, field trials etc or the relevant qualification in each of those disciplines.  The KC yearbook has a section specifically on this.

I think you are confusing Stud book numbers with KC registration numbers, two entirely different things.

Thanks for the info.
I know there is a difference between studbook and registration numbers. I just thought it was odd that the first litter had studbook numbers as they have never been registered with the kennel club. The breeder must have given them some random numbering system for some reason.

Sue

I beleive I read in one of the dog papers a few weeks ago that the breed had either been given interim registration or accepted onto the Import register.  wehn pups are KC registered they do get consecutive numbers.

You have to WIN a stud book number, the breeder cannot give their puppies one. You gain one by winning a CC a RCC, a Junior warrent or a show certificate of merit.

The sire or dam of a successful dog will also be awarded a stud book number, if it hasn't won one in its own right.

Can you elaborate there as I had never heard of that.  How successful would the progeny need to be?

If the progeny has been awarded a stud book number, the dam/sire also has one. I suppose it's for continuity - if a dog wins a Stud book number, but the parents don't have them, there's no way of tracing back through the pedigree without it (I may be wrong). The number looks different from a normal stud book number though - think it begins with an 'X' or something, so you can tell if the dog has won it themselves or through its progeny.

I never knew that, thanks, I shall peruse my stud book with interest.

Well I have never been sent one for my Tula whose daughter has her stud book number and a son has two CCs? 

Been thinking about this - maby it's a result of my fevered imagination ( I'm pleading ill-health here, being full of cold). Maybe it's not a stud book number, but something to do with an extended pedigree? It gives the sire & dam with an X number where the sire & dam don't have stud book numbers.
Oh dear, wish I'd never started this :D Think I'll crawl back to bed. .........

I think you are right, ie it is the x for the extended pedigree where the sire/dam do not have pedigrees, if I remember correctly.......

A stud book number qualifies a dog for Crufts for life, so parents of successful dogs will not be given one, or Crufts would be at least a hundred times more crowded than it is now

I don't know what the DDB's did because of course there were hundreds of them bred before they became accepted over here, but I think some of them before they were accepted were then eventually registered.

As I said in my first post I presume that it is something thtat the breeder has set up so that if and when they are accepted these dogs can be registered too????

I own one the the small munsterlanders from the A litter, born December 2003.  As far as I can gather, the studbook numbers given by the breeder to the existing 2 litters of munsties in the UK, actually reflect a list of his pups in the order they were born.  So if you have number 004, you pup was the fourth of that litter and I would imaging that the second litter's numbering runs from 013-025. 

Like i said before, the breeder cannot give the litter stud book numbers! Your dog has to WIN one, its the only way. Nothing to do with the sire, dam, breeders ect ect... Your dog has to win a CC, a RCC, a Show certificate of merit or a junior warrant at championship shows to gain a stud book number. Maybe you are gettin confused with the dog's registration number? This is given by the kennel club when your dog is registered with them.  But that doesnt have anything to do with what order the puppies were born. The breeder just writes down the puppies names on the form and which ever puppy happened to be first gets the first number. Its really doesn't matter what the numbers is as it only a registration number so they know who your dog is.

Sarah xxxxx

The registration numbers might just work out in the order of birth if that is the order the breeder lists them on the litter registraion appliction form.  Pups always have registraion numbers that start the smae but end 01, 02, 03 and so on for the number of whelps.

yeah thats what i meant, didnt word it very well lol ;)

sarah xxxx

We've got one, yippee, yippee! (sorry, might never get another dog with one!) :-D

>We've got one, yippee, yippee! (sorry, might never get another dog with one!) :D

LOL me too!!!! I couldnt believe it, he came from puppy and i have only been handling 5 months. Anyway fingers crossed for you that it wont be your last!!!!! :D :D :D Oooo i think we should have a board just for outrageous braggin!! :D cause then we could both talk on that! lol :D Well done!!!

sarah xxxx

The 'Studbook' number in question is from the only Small Munsterlander breeder in the UK and is not on any officially recognised document, merely a self-designed pedigree certificate from his kennel that is similar to the (official) German document he has for his sire and dam who presumably had to earn their studbook numbers in Germany. 

As the owner of the only breeding pair of Small Munsterlanders in the UK the breeder is trying to control the development of the breed, and as such this is only a record of Small Munsterlanders in the UK, not a Kennel Club document.  As such it has no real recognition.