My sister's dog has come to stay for a few days ,and he's on his last legs. He's a 13 yr old miniture schnauzar and has been going downhill for the last couple of months. He can't stand up or move about on his bed, but when he's up he's able to walk about, all be it unsteadily. He doesn't take much interest in what's going on around him, and hasn't got much of an appetite- I got him to eat 3 frolic pieces earlier and it was a miracle!- but is drinking lots when I take him to the water bowl. He really is a sorry state, all skin and bone. When he does walk about he falls over occasionally, but doesn't seem to be in any pain. My sister has been scared of taking him to the vets- she's scared of the inevitable I guess, but this afternoon I was trying to get him to eat- force feeding in a way- and he didn't want the food. I felt desperate and so upset. I think if it was my girls I'd want them to go to sleep, to be PUT to sleep perhaps. He just lays there and doesn't lift his head, isn't interested in anything. What can I do? I take him outside and steady him while he wees or poos , I'm trying to keep him comfortable . They aren't home until Friday. I've broached the subject of dying and cremation/ burial and they've said if he dies keep the body til they get back, but WHERE?

Sorry, I keep crying,and don't know what to do.I just wish he'd go to sleep and not wake up. It's no life.

You're right, it is no life. :( I always remember one thing my vet said to me years ago about one of my dogs:"He will have good days and bad days, and as long as the good days outnumber the bad, he's okay. But once the bad days outnumber the good, it is time to say goodbye." Seems to me this little dog ONLY has bad days. :( I think another thing that is important to keep in mind is that when it is a case of an elderly dog like this, clearly seriously unwell, having him put to sleep can never hurt him, so in that sense it can never be TOO soon for the DOG -the dog won't suffer, only the humans will. The dog will however suffer if he is left too long.

If I was you, I would take him to the vet -it really is the ONLY thing to do. The vet will then no doubt tell you exactly what is what, and I would be surprised if there was any other outcome than that he needs to have his suffering ended -but you never KNOW.  You absolutely definitely DO need a vet, and TOMORROW at the latest.

Then if he has to be put to sleep the slight problem is the legal one -would you be in your right to sign the consent form? If not, the only option might be to have the vet keep him in  and keep him more comfortable than you can do at home -he may need a drip for instance. Really your sister should have taken him to the vet long before now -SOMETHING might have been possible, who knows -maybe he needed heart medication or something and he could have been saved..........

The vet will also have the facility to keep the body for a few days should it be necessary.

My heart does go out to you. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

Can you ring them and tell them the way he is??????
I looked after 3 dogs a few months ago but only for a 4 days  and there was one I thought had died in his sleep a few times. I text her and asked her and she said he did do that, but the rest of the time he was running around the kennel and run perfectly fine. He is 15. Spoke to my friend the other day and she is considering saying goodbye to him :( (I looked after him and his litter mates for a weekend when he was 3 days old) But know if i had rang her amd said he had gone downhill she would have told me to take him to the vets. It may be he is worse now than he was with them and they would either come back or tell you to take him to the vet what ever the outcome.
And maybe your sister needs someone to tell her he is suffering alot to get her to face up to reality????
Difficult what ever you choose to do :(
Lea

I think perhaps you're right. I've spoken to my sister daily about his condition, but have to admit I was shocked when she dropped him off yesterday. She has gone with her family to my Mum's in Spain- hopefully she'll ring me later and I can explain how he is. He might not be any worse today than he has been at home for the last week, but I can't see him taking any interest in anything, not me or my dogs. I suppose when they're your own you just will them to be well and don't necessarily notice the deterioration. Maybe it's just a case of transferring the responsibility, I don't know.She did take him to the vets a couple of months ago and got some medicine for his joints,they said then just to keep him comfy, .

Would it be considered a white lie to exaggerate slightly and say he's definitely suffering and whimpering or something. Poor little thing, I haven't had to do that yet and it must be the hardest thing to say goodbye, even if you know it's for the best. :-(

My vet told me "Better a week too soon than a day too late." I've stuck by that. My dogs never let me down, so I won't let them down either.

My old dog Benji was 16 when the vet made the decision. He had had cancer of the scrotum for over a year, it never bothered him but then he became incontinent and it wasn't nice knowing he would get up of a morning from a damp bed. He also lost a lot of weight. Other than that he was fine in himself not in any pain but hubby took him to the vet for advice and came back without him :( It was a shock as we weren't expecting that but it had progressed, the cancer, and there was nothing they could do. To be honest I don't think I could have watched him go downhill, like JG said, better a week too soon than a day too late
:(

Dee

If he's not suffering in any way at all then I would just let nature takes him as god intended, and I would cuddle him and tell him that it is ok to go. Maybe he's waiting for his family to come back and is holding on for their return to say his goodbyes.

Taz went off his food but still drank some, he would eat treats I gave him and the odd human food. By day 5 I bought some canned food and I think he just ate it to make me happy. Other then that he was fine in himself except seemed a lil depressed and wanted us around all the time. I was going to make him a vet appt.on saturday if he didn't eat but I think everything was shutting down and he knew it was time and just wanted us with him. If I knew he was going to be passing that day oct 29th 3:04am  I would have taken friday off of work just to spend the whole day with him, but I think he held on till that night to make sure we were going to be home as he wanted us by his side when he said his good byes.... Iam sure if I took him to the vet she would have told me that his kidneys ect were shutting down, even with that I still would have let him pass naturally unless he was in pain... Iam glad we were able to love him and say our goodbyes and he passed away at home with his family by his side... Sadly missed Taz

Hoping this lil ones passing can be in comfort and not pain, and Iam sure you will do what you feel is right.

Hi Bunty,

Just seen this and I'm so sorry for you and the little dog - it's a truly horrendous position for you to be in :(

I totally agree with Marianne - at the very least he has to see a vet immediately and when you explain the position to the vet take a decision from there whether it be to have him released from suffering now or kept comfortably under medical supervision until his owner returns.

I'm the world's biggest softy and couldn't even begin to imagine how much more heart wrenching it would be if one of my beloved dogs went to the Bridge without me but I'd never forgive myself if I had caused one to suffer longer than necessary just to wait for my being around.

As JG and others have said, better too early than too late and for this little chap it sounds perilously close to being too late already.  They deserve to retain their dignity and IMO it is our privilege and obligation that we are able to do that for them.

I sincerely hope when you visit the vet that he/she can give you a more positive outlook and that perhaps the little soul is uncomfortable just now and can be given some form of medication which will relieve that discomfort/pain and therefore improve his health and general demeanour at least until his owner returns to take responsibility.  Dogs tend to go quiet, lethargic and depressed when in the most pain - he needs help for sure :(

But so do you - for moral support or personal / mental strength right now.  You've got a good crowd on here who will be a lot of support and back-up whatever the outcome.

Bless you.  You and that sweet little guy will be in my prayers tonight.
{{{hugs}}}  Teri x

What an awful situation for you to be in but I personally would take him to a vet asap as from what you have described he is not having any sort of quality of life and IMHO the kindest thing would be to have him PTS.

Your sister will be very upset but at the end of the day I would rather put an animal out of it's suffering rather than save somebodies feelings :) Sorry that sounds harsh but the dog doesn't have the choice in this but we as humans can show the dog out last act of kindness.

I am sure your sister will understand and I hope you find strength to make the right choice

Take Care

Lucy
xx

Bunty - from what you've written there is no doubt that this little dog is suffering.
It's a big responsibility but you must do what needs to be done. Deal with your sister afterwards - if she loves him she'll want what is best for him.
Please don't prolong his suffering.

Bunty....I was in the same position earlier this year with my daughters Min Schnauzer.  He was 15, very unstable, walked round in circles, head held to one side, he looked so sad.  He had always been a very proud dog and I couldnt bare to see him like this. 
There is only one option Bunty......I had to do it......a very hard decision to make I know.  Perhaps your sister has left him with you for this reason because she cannot do it herself.  We can all offer advice but at the end of the day......
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

just read this post and tend to agree with everyone that a visit to the vets is vital.

We had the terrible decision in August to have  our boy Kyle a rough collie PTS he was 15 and half years old he was bad on his legs and started doing little piddles occasionally around the house he wasnt happy and we knew it was his time .
We didnt want to leave him to deteriorate and suffer as he had been a lovely boy all his life and a good friend we had to do what was right for him.

It is very difficult to face upto and it seems strange that your sister would leave him in this condition to have a holiday (not wanting to sound offensive ) I havent had a holiday for  a few years cause my  boy was getting on and I would never have forgiven myself if he had gone while I was away.
Maybe ...this is why she has gone away....a terrible thought I know ...but sometimes some people just can't face it.

Roni

Bunty, this is the one thing I'm dreading with my old boy.  He's been on deaths door three or four time but each time has pulled through and he's realy going strong at the moment, eating well, walking well and enjoying life.  I'm sure he'll tell us when he's had enough.  My only advice would be is take him to your vet and ask his opinion.  I don't envy you at all having to make this decision. Give little doggy a big hug from me.

Bunty,

It is terrible to see a dog (or anyone) suffer when you know there is no hope. 

As expected when I saw the heading of this post - I am now in tears over a dog I put to sleep 2-1/2 years ago.  I've got two lovely dogs now, but my Moxie was a once-in-a-lifetime dog.  Putting her to sleep was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life - but seeing her suffer longer than she needed to in her last weeks was the only thing that I regret.

Stacey

Bunty, I cry just reading about this.  I know (with hindsight) that I left my little dog too long and I regretted it for a long time afterwards.  (This was 3 years ago.)  He also kept falling over and then couldn't get up and I had to pick him up and steady him.  Forget that it's your sister's dog.  He's a dog and he's with you.  You care about him.  Take him to the vet and be guided by him.  Quite possibly your sister is hoping you will do what she isn't brave enough to do herself.  It's the hardest decision in any pet-owners life but, as everyone says, you have to think of the dog not yourself (or your sister).
Best of luck and let us all know what happens. 

Bunty, your sister probably doesn't realize how bad her little dog is. I've seen this many times - you spend so much time with them you don't see them slowly going downhill and it sometimes takes somebody else to see how bad they really are.

I've been in your position and had to take a friend's dog to be PTS while they were away. It's a huge responsibility on your shoulders, but it sounds like your sister is prepared if she's talking of keeping the body till she gets back. If he's not eating and he's drinking so much, I'd definitely take him to the vet's and let them make the decision - if they think it's the kindest thing to euthanize him, then go with it and explain this to your sister. And if not, at least your mind will be put at ease that he's not suffering.

Bunty, I am crying reading this.......... I feel for you, I really do.
I was in a similar position but with my own dog in May. She had got a heart tumour and went gradually downhill before my eyes....... I was waking up every two hours to carry her downstairs to let her out for a wee and then syringe feeding her whatever I could get down her. I cried every day for six weeks but she would still wag her tail so I put off making the decision. I came home one day to find her in a pool of bile and she didn't have the strength to lift her head up, and I knew enough was enough. I knew what the outcome was going to be, but I prayed so hard that if she was going to go, could it please be in her sleep........
In the end, my vet took the decision out of my hands........ she knew I would never be able to tell her to put Emma to sleep, so she told me that she had started to suffer and that she knew she was my ''baby'' and that I wouldn't have wanted that....... I am glad in a way, that the vet helped me make that decision, because I know I would never have been strong enough to make it on my own. Perhaps that is how your sister is........
We have them for such a short time, but they make such a big impact on our lives........
Thinking of you,
((((Hugs))))
Gabrielle xxxxxx

Thankyou for all your replies. The little pooch is still with us, doesn't seem any worse, but I know it's only a matter of time. I keep cuddling him and picking him up- he doesn't appear to be in any pain, no whimpering or anything, but I guess that's the worst thing- he doesn't, he can't, do anything. All I've managed to get down him today is 1/2 a jaffa cake- God love him! He's still drinking lots and weeing ok, but can only do both with assistance. It's heavy snow here today and not car driving weather...I'll leave the vets until tomorrow,hopefully it'll be better weather. I know I'm kidding myself, and I'm being feeble and using the snow as an excuse.Please bear with me.. and all the CD's input is supporting me enormously, thanks.  

I'll keep this little dog in my thoughts. xx

How can anyone go away on holiday knowing their dog is in that state? Ppl never fail to amaze me. Thank goodness this little chap has you Bunty. Hopefully you will find the strength to cope. I would take him to the vets too. Just because he is not wimpering doesn't mean he's not suffering. Poor little lad, abandoned by his family when he needs them most... :(

Shocking as this may sound; some people prefer to leave their dog- once they get to this stage- with someone else so that they don`t have to make that decision!
I ran boarding kennels for a long time and remember at least 2 occasions where the dog had to be put to sleep - on vets advise - and all the owners could say on their return was; we didn`t expect him/her to be here when we got back.
I always cried for these poor dogs that had to spend the last weeks of their life in kennels, and eventhough I did my upmost to make them as comfortable as possible there was no way I could replace their home/owners.
Still feel sad thinking about this part!

Ofcourse if it was obvious that a dog was on it`s last legs I advised the owners against going on their hols and refused to take in their dog. IMHO a long loved pet deserve much better!

Like someone else said on here though, if it's a very slow decline the owners may not have realised how bad he's got or may even be in denial that the kindest thing is to PTS. It can't be easy to have to cater to his every need such as toileting and hand feeding but to them this might be their way of showing just how much they care and love him.  Lets face it, as far as constant on hand caring is concerned it would be easier if he was PTS.  I don't doubt they love him to bits and this has clouded their judgement.  I wouldn't be at all surprised that they might be relieved that someone else has taken the responsibility for what is a very difficult decision. 

Bunty, I really feel for you. I once left my dogs with a close friend, one of them was old & had a heart condition. She had good days & bad, but before we went they were mostly good days. My friend was willing to take the decision, should it become necessary, we talked about it beforehand. Once I came home & saw her "with fresh eyes" as it were, I realised straight away I'd left it too long & made an appointment the very next day. I vowed I'd never make the same mistake again & I haven't, but as Chez _Swa says, if it's a slow decline it's easy not realise how bad it is. I'm glad I had the chance to take Polly myself but, if I'm honest, I would have been relieved if my friend had made the decision for me - even if I know that's the coward's way out.
Thinking of you X

Well the little chap is still here.He seems a bit more perky today, but lets face it,I do only mean looking around more and trying to move around his bed. He's not exactly racing around the garden..I think what you said Anwen hits the nail on the head. I think he has been having good and bad days, and I think my sister has kept getting renewed hope whenever it's been a good day and I think because he's been slowly deteriorating she's almost forgotten how he used to be. Today he appears quite comfortable, I've washed his face and tried to spruce him up a bit, but I'm going to be brave. My plan is to take my two girls out for a romp in the snow, then I'm going to be making a phonecall and going to be telling them how it is. I'm sure it is a denial thing, and I'm not helping by going along with it. It's no life for him and I need to tell her that. He hasn't eaten anything today, and I can't force him. He's drinking well and weeing and pooing, but big wow! It's not fair and it's not right.

Good luck Bunty.
Lea.

Anyone know whats happening?

Hi everyone,
well the situation is this.I spoke to my sister last night - she rang late last night. I explained everything to her, but she still insists that I try to force him to eat something and try to get him to last until the w/e!! When I said 'what's the point?' and that it was cruel she just kept saying 'try to get him to eat something'.It was like talking to a brick wall! Whilst we were on the phone, my brother-in-law rang my husband and said she doesn't want him to go to the vets, she just wants him to die naturally..She's completely in denial, and I know that can be quite common, I just wish it was her looking after him.This morning he'd pooed on the bed so needing bottom half bathing. Poor little thing, I thought he was gonna croak it there and then.He's had nothing to eat, I refuse to force feed him. I don't mind trying to coax him, but that's all I'll do. I'd really like to take him to the vets, but, oh god I don't know. I wanted her to tell me to take him. I think it's really unfair on the poor dog and me and my husb. I'm not bothered about cleaning him up as I'm sure you'll appreciate, he's such a small little thing.I just wish he'd go to sleep and not wake up.  

The thing is Bunty, if you force feed him you're keeping him alive in the state he is...he might last for weeks. Please take him to the vet and ask their opinion.

I really feel for you. You are in a no win situation.  At least he is with someone that is really taking care of him.  Seems that is all you can do for now.  I don't know, but it sounds to me like he's fading now anyway.

Can you not take him to the vets and have him PTS and just tell your sister that he died of natural causes?  :(   If she doesn't use your vet she would never know.

I have thought about doing that..could do with someone taking MY responsibility off ME

Bunty if you go to the vet and explain I am sure the vet will tell you what decision is best, and that way you won't have to make it. Remember what Jeangenie said the other day: rather a week too soon than a day too late. Personally I worry about this dog suffering for too long after your sister is back home again. It is actually quite rare for dogs to die in their sleep. HUGS to you.

I have a friend who did it with her mothers dog because she couldn't bare to see it suffer any longer, her mother wanted the dog to die naturally as I would imagine most pet owners would,  I have been in a similar situation to you but didn't think it was really my responsibility to have the dogs PTS so i cared for them as much as i could until owners returned home, I did also have letters authorising me to PTS any animals if necessary.I feel for you, its very sad.

Hi Bunty,

I really feel for you on this one and if you lived near me I would take the responsibility off you if it helped :(  Perhaps if you take the dog to the vet (or get your OH to do it for you) and make your mind(s) up beforehand that what the vet says is best is what you'll go ahead with, it may ease the burden of responsibility a little.

Like you, I pray this little guy goes quickly in his sleep but unfortunately that doesn't seem to happen as rapidly as we'd prefer when we know a dear friend is ready to go.

I feel so sad for you.  Teri x

Bunty, if it were me I'd take him to the vet (you could tell your sister the poor soul started vomiting or something), explain the situation, have the vet examine him and give his unbiased professional opinion. Let the vet decide.

I second JG's suggestion. I wouldn't wait.It is not fair on the poor dog or your Bunty :)

Lucy
xx

The only person who can really do that is the vet.  You are looking after the little dog, your sister is in no position to judge what is best as she is not here.  To be honest, it is totally unfair to leave you in the situation of caring for him and then deciding at a distance what she wants and does not want.  I can well appreciate that you do not want to fall out with your sister and that you want to follow her wishes but you can't be condemned for taking him to the vet for his professional advice.  The vet may turn around and say that the dog is not suffering at all and is just weak and tired in which case you will not feel you are hurting him by keeping him alive.  On the other hand the vet might say he is suffering and no one, not even you sister, could blame you for allowing the vet to PTS.

A few years ago I visited my ex and saw that his dog was suffering from I could only say was senile dementia. She hid under the kitchen table and was SO terrified of anything that moved that I forced him to phone the vet. I actually picked up the phone, dialled the vets and handed him the phone! He made an appointment and I took the dog down and had it PTS. There was no other thing that I could do. She was suffering, was 'toileting' everywhere (both ends ) and you could see the 'look' in her eyes. I have never forgiven him for letting her go on that long. He knew he had to do it, but couldn't bring himself to do it.

At the end of the day you have to think of the poor dog. If I was close by I would pick him up for you and take him myself. It's never easy, but you really have to do what's right for the DOG, not for your sister. IMHO she is being very selfish, and not very caring.

I agree with everyone, and from what you say your sister's husband will be on your side too. If necessary fib to your sister and say he went naturally, but for his sake and yours it's time to make that phone call. :-(

I feel for you and understand your predicament.
But...if a animal appears to be ill not eating etc then are we not obliged by law  to take that said pet to a vet.
He is also probably fretting for your sister especially leaving him while he is so weak and frail.
this must be a nighmare for you Bunty ....

Roni

Just a quick warning - a vet cannot PTS a dog without the owners permission in writing, if the dog is staying with someone else.

Would that apply if the vet believed the dog to be suffering?

All I know is that I had to have a neighbours pony PTS - the pony was in pain and it was overdue - I had to get written permission beforehand...

I reckon they will always like someones signature on the consent to absolve themselves of any responsibility if someone else popped up and kicked off about it :) but I really think if push came to shove they couldn't let an animal suffer.

Hi Bunty. I'm not sure if your vets would do it but my vet will make a house call.He will even go out to the home to end the suffering of an animal.Maybe you could contact your vet and ask if they make house calls. That way you are still carrying out your sisters wishes by not taking the dog to the vets but you are also helping the poor dog.My heart goes out to you in this terrible time.

Jade xxxx

I think your sister is being totally unreasonable and cruel. You do what you think is best for the poor little mite - it's funny how she doesn't mind him dying of starvation as it's 'natural', but she's loath for him to be given an injection to end his suffering. If she has anything to say about it, I'd point out to her that she b*ggered off on holiday when she knew full well what state the poor dog was in and quite gladly dumped him on you for the duration. She may be a few hundred miles away on holiday, but it is still she who is failing the dog when he needs her the most. I really hope she's having a nice holiday.

This makes me really angry as I'm in a situation where I'm probably going to have to put my oldest dog to sleep and she's in no way as bad a state as your sister's dog. I want to let her enjoy her life for as long as possible, but not leave her till she's in that kind of state. I keep hoping she will die in her sleep, but I know deep down this isn't going to happen.

I do feel for you, Bunty. You are in an almost impossible position and it seems so unjust that it is because you care so much for the poor dog's welfare that you've been put in this position. I must admit that I'd be inclined to go for the "emergency visit" to the vet option too.

I know that I had to witness a similar situation with the dog who shared his time between my OH's ex and us when we had the children to stay. A lovely old boy in every way, he got to the age of 17 and it was clear to me, over the last few weeks, that his quality of life was diminishing at a fearful rate of knots. I'd raised the issue of how much longer it was fair to watch him deteriorate but didn't feel I had the right to make the decision. Fortunately, he came over one Saturday night, nodded off to sleep in his basket and slipped peacefully away to the bridge.

I just wish that a similar release could come to your sister's dog.

Bunty, I think it's quite unusual for anyone to actually die in their sleep.  My mother, aged 95,  desperately wanted to die in her sleep.  Like your sister's little dog, she didn't eat, couldn't get herself out of bed without assistance and could do nothing but sit or lie around all day.  She had no quality of life and was also in pain from arthritis.  But we're not allowed to help humans!  She lingered on for over year before finally falling, breaking her hip, and dying in hospital.  I loved my mother but I'm glad she's gone.  She had suffered longer than I would have wished.  Don't put this poor little dog through all that.  Dogs don't show pain the way people do and he can't tell you in words if he's had enough.  As several people have suggested, let the vet make the decision and lie to your sister if you have to.  Your sister is being very, very selfish!

I didn't realise that it was unusal for dogs to die in their sleep. Mine did. I saw him suffer for a couple of weeks and it was after all the tests were done that I had to make the decision to put him to sleep as it was the kindest thing, but my boy took that decision away from me and died on his own. It was a matter of hours between being told the diagnosis and him dying. I never want to go through that again.

You have to do what is right for this poor dog and if a vet says that he is suffering, then you have to do the kindest thing for him. I feel so sad for you having been thrown into this position, but as someone said, you sister is having a holiday while her dog is so ill and thrown the responsibility on you.

My thoughts are with you.