Hi I am new here and have been browsing and saw about feeding chicken wings frozen. I take it this is ok, now my 17wk old pup tends to gulp her wings and wondered if they were frozen, would she more likely to chew it?

I always give my pups frozen wings, it helps soothe their gums whilst teething and it does take them longer to eat it :)

Thanks for that, I will try the frozen approach. The other question I would like to ask is that they have been on raw for 9-10days now and eating ok apart from not chewing, but Hermione my 17wk old I have noticed has been passing whole bones. Should I be alarmed at this?

Fagan did this for a while when he was first on BARF as a pup, no harm came to him :)

If she gulps have you tried carcasses? I feed them frozen and because they're bigger they have to chew them more. Just go into your butcher and ask for chicken stock carcasses
Archer

Hi Archer,

I have read that you should never give dogs bones, in case they choke, and then other times read that they are very good for helping with teething.

Is this just another personal preference thing?

Thanks

Natalie

Cooked bones are a no no.

A lot of us do not feed any commercial food and feed raw meat and bones, the latter is a natural source of calcium.

My 13 week old puppy has been eating chicken wings since weaning and been totally raw fed from 7 weeks.

Thanks Tohme, can they have any bones as long as they are raw then? Also if you are giving them frozen, do you leave them with the dog until he has eaten them, or (try to) get the wings off him when defrosted? I am just thinking about the dog getting food poisioning, if the wings aren't cooked.

There are two types of bones:

RMB (Raw Meaty Bones) that are designed to be consumed which consists of practically anything and everthing of any animal bar a woolly mammoth.

Recreational Bones - these are boredom busters, teeth cleaners etc and are designed to be stripped of marrow, cartilage and NOT consumed as they would be considered possible tooth breakers ie large shin bones of large animals such as cows.

The whole point of giving the dog the wing is for the dog to eat it, frozen or defrosted.

Dogs rarely get food poisoning as they are designed to be scavengers and cope with putrid meat.  They have a much higher stomach acidity than our own and usually only succumb to salmonella, campylobacter, e-coli etc etc if they are already immuno compromised and in fact are far more likely to contract these from drinking from uncertain water supplies or consuming various animal droppings.

Remember we are talking about animals that lick their own bottoms and that of others, not to mention excrement etc, hardly likely that  a piece of raw meat is going to pose any particular problems! :D

Very good points there Tohme, maybe I should start thinking a little bit more! LOL

Thanks for your replies

Natalie

Dogs do not chew, they do not have flat bed molars with which to carry out this activity.

they rip, tear, crush and swallow.

My 13 week old puppy practically swallows his whole.........

This concept still makes me nervous, incase a bone gets lodged in the throat. But I think I might bite the bullet, nip to Tesco and get some chicken wings.

Never had a problem in 4 years, of course that is not to say it never happens but hey, nothing in life is risk free, dogs have choked on kibble............

Im gonna go for it.

Can you give raw liver aswell?

Raw:

liver, lungs, kidneys, heart, fish, eggs, rabbit, chicken, venison, lamb, pork, beef, duck, turkey............................

Im very interested in a partial raw diet, are there any books I could read? Or is it generally anything raw?

Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy Schulze is probably the easiest and most accessible book, easily available here.

It lists what a dog needs and where it can be found and has diet plan to help you start off.

I reckon it costs me a £1 per day to feed my dogs raw. 

I worked out it would cost me about £2 a day each to feed mine raw. :(

Blinking 'eck JG ...what on earth were you feeding them?? It costs me £12 per month to feed my two Malamutes raw.

Mind you, if you don't have a friendly butcher nearby it could get expensive :(

No, our nearby butchers aren't that friendly. Human grade meat - human grade prices. :( (And that's Tesco Value). Each would need at least a pound of meat a day, and the cheapest I can get that (pet shop frozen) is 45p/lb. Buying the veg to pulp - human prices again. No carcasses, free or otherwise (I've asked). You have to remember dals can be prone to stones, so can't have loads of offal etc. No, there's no way I could afford to feed them raw.

I am lucky enough to get lights, trotters, ribs, chicken carcasses and offcuts for free and then I buy the frozen packs of meat once a month. Veggies I get anything that is on the offer counter at Tesco ;) :D

Oh and I managed to pick up 4 packs of fresh mackeral AND some chicken wings from Tesco for pennies the other week, chucked them in the freezer too

(Stephen complains about my freezer...it is 6' tall and has 6 drawers ....2 of which are filled with our food and the rest full of dog food :D :D )

You're very lucky indeed. Our Tesco don't even have an offer counter for veg! :( The local greengrocers aren't any help either. Believe me, I've been all over the show asking around, but no go. It's pay full price or go without.

So what do Tesco do with their coming up to out of date stuff?? Thats the only way I get cheapy veggies

The out of date veg goes into their skip - and no, they won't let me intercept (I've asked) ...

Out of date veg have practically no vitamins, there are lost at a alarming rate from the day they are picked.  Allright for their roughage value but supplements would have to be used to replace the vits.

That's why they say frozen veg is much better for humans that the 'fresh' veg in the greengrocer.
:)

Yes they would perhaps be a good bet for raw feeders as the freezing process has started to break down the cells too.

>>Out of date veg have practically no vitamins, there are lost at a alarming rate from the day they are picked.  Allright for their roughage value but supplements would have to be used to replace the vits

(Which is why I said 'Coming UP to out of date ;) ) I whizz them in my whizzy machine and freeze them ;)

Mmmmmm my understanding is even coming up to date the levels are pretty dire, certainly I always try and buy stuff with a very good date on them, fresh from the garden is best of all :)

Well Isabel, at the end of the day, the Mals look good on it even if it is crappy :D

Always a good guide is that :D

So how much (I haven't attempted it through fear of what I might learn!) veg would be needed to pulp down to produce two cups (that's about half a pint, isn't it?) of puree? I'm guessing at 4 carrots, two apples, a couple of bananas, half a cucumber, several sticks of celery and a quarter of a cabbage. How far out am I?

Ian Billinghurst's suggested diet for a dal would be:
Morning: one egg, half a cup of ricotta cheese ( ) Half a cup of pureed fruit (he suggests apples, peaches and melons) and two or three chicken wings/necks.
Evening: Half a cup of ground chicken, half a cup of rice/potato, a cup of pureed vegetables and masses of supplements (cold pressed oils, vitamin B50, vitamin E, kelp, cod liver oil and 2 fish oil capsules).

It takes a heck of a lot of fruit and veg to puree into 1½ cups - and then multiply all the above by 4 ...

:o Were you thinking of feeding them Tesco's finest :p It's approx £1 per day to feed my two Mals (£30 for the month) - I had them on Naturediet for a while and the cheapest I could buy it for was £8 per box which worked out at approx £70 per month.

hi  if it costs £ to feed your dogs raw everyday were do you get the food from ?if i  go to the butchers do i say that its for a dog or is it all the same ,its because ive just been to tescos and bought some frozen chicken wing and they cost nearly  £2 for 7 thanks dawn

They saw you coming ;) I pay £1.27 for about 10 chicken wings at tescos :)

They saw you both coming ;) Ask your butcher for bulk, I pay £22 for 350 wings and carcasses :D Although I do need 2 extra freezers just for the dogs ;)

do you tell them that its for a dog or is it all the same

Tesco sell Value bags of frozen chicken wings that are much cheaper.

It is human quality, I have eaten them   The carcassess are the stock carcassess used in hospital and school kitchens for making soup, stock etc. But because of the quantities I can purchase them in I get them very nearly cost price.  I do buy all my butchermeat from him though, not just the dogs.  And he knows it for my dogs, he has quite a soft spot for them :D  I have the added advantage of living just outside a small market town, butchers is right next to cattle market and slaughterhouse. ;) ;) ;) . He does all his own butchery, as opposed to larger city butchers, where everything is bought in already butchered

My butcher is a bit naff when it comes to parts of animals, to be honest I dont think they do much butchering because they rarely have any spare parts :(  occasionally they sell chicken wings £4.99 for about 40 or 50 and rabbits for £2 but that is about it.

Just what I've been looking for.  My first attempt at barf was a disaster and left me with a fat wee cocker!!!!  I'm on burns at the moment but want to change back.  It really was great and so inexpensive.  It's interesting to hear about frozen chicken wings.  I would not have fed the dogs that because of a fear of food poisoning but it all makes sense.  I think we do try to humanise our dogs!!!!  I'm going to get this book. 

I roughly worked out that i have fed around 10,000lbs of raw meat and bones to my dogs over a 6 year period :)
I have NEVER had a problem in that time other than one of my dogs choking on a turkey neck once,which i managed to dislodge without any major probs,but other than that it has been plain sailing :)

LOL Frodo, did you work out how much it cost as well. Only kidding I am seriously thinking about a raw diet for our pup as well!

It's worth chatting up any farm shop owners who sell their own meat/chickens etc. I have a very friendly Organic farmer who I am now friends with & I get all my meat for my dogs(I don't eat any animal products but my dogs are not natural vegetarians so they need meat), as they sell chicken breast & leg portions they have a goodly amount of chicken left & also as they do not sell any meat frozen they have a reasonable suppy for very little(same with the fruit & veg they produce)

My dalmatian dog has

a large tablespoon of cottage cheese or, once a week, tinned sardines or pilchards for breakfast

200gms of  AMP minced meat or tripe and three or four chicken wings for dinner, Sometimes I add
a desertspoon of veg/friut put through the food processor.

and he is certainly not thin.

I think my lot would go on strike if all they got for breakfast was a tablespoon of cottage cheese!

Your boy eats roughly what mine do (apart from the table scraps and complete food they have on top) but I'd still like to not be able to see the boys' ribs.

I was just putting in my order for my raw meat today and was looking in the catalogue for treats and came across 'medium beef woofers' described as 'dried lengths of unmentionable beef muscle, very chewy'.
Is this what I think it is? And has anybody tried these for their dogs?

:D

Hi all,
I feed my bullies on carcasses and wings too they love it and look good so it suits me. I get mine from a local chicken factory where I pay £1.50 per bag of backs or carcasses which have around 20 in and £3.50 for my wings per bag which have 125 medium sized wings. It all works out that for all of my seven dogs around £1.50 per day.

lol @ leomad :P