Im going to be collecting my new westie pup in a week - very excited! Im just a bit nervous about the food I should give her. The breeder has said that she is feeding on chicken, mince, ribs etc and these foods should be alternated as she is fussy.  Im a vegetarian and obviously dont buy meat unless I have visitors.  I intend to incorporate bits of nature diet (Im hoping this is a good choice of pup food) in her food as soon as she is home (is this ok?) and eventually make this her complete food, with extra titbits etc.  My problem is, it could work out very expensive buying this meat as a packet just for my dog.  Can anyone provide some advice as to how I get around this.  Ive bought everything from toys to crates and have read loads of books on training so feel quite happy and secure about everything except the food.  Ive read on here that milk is a bit of a no no, but have heard that ambrosia rice is quite good for their teeth and bones, would this be ok?

Thanks

Congratulations on the imminent new arrival

I too am a vegetarian(well vegan actually)& I buy my dogs organic meat as they are by nature mainly carnivores & meat is a natural form of food for them, so buying organic food does mean the food animals get treated ethically.

I don't know what is in Nature Diet.& I'm sure others will come all who know about this food

If I were you & your puppy is not being fed a raw diet at present I would get a selection of meat & bag it up as I do into enough for two days & freeze it. It is up to you if you cook the meat before freezing It may be wise to do this at first

Small puppies like Westies do not eat huge amounts so bear this in mind when planning the amount of food you need for a couple of days

No, ambrosia rice has enormous quantities of sugar (it's unpleasantly sweet even for most humans!), and sugar is a well-known laxative apart from being of no nutritional benefit. Please don't feed your new dog primarily on 'human' food - they're a different species with different requirements. Your pup's breeder is feeding the pup on a very good food for an animal which is naturally mainly carnivorous, and you should really do the same if you want a happy, healthy pet. If you don't want to feed fresh meat, then naturediet is a good compromise, and there are several good quality complete dry dog foods on the market. But please, not rice pudding!
:)

OOps I should have noticed the Ambrosia CR as I'm a diabetic & it's a big nono for both me & the dogs

Thanks for the advice on the ambrosia, I was actually told this from the breeder so I assumed all would be ok with this. I wont feed her this after your comment.  I certainly dont intend to withdraw any meat from her diet, I was just trying to ask for suggestions as to how I make her diet less costly as I am sure a lot of puppy/dog owners just take some meat out for the dog before making their own dinners.  I think I will go with Moonmaidens suggestions and just buy a small bulk every couple of days and freeze it after cooking it.

Thanks for your advice

There's always the option of feeding it raw, but I appreciate you may have problems with that. I buy packs of frozen mince from the pet shop at about 43p per pound and thaw them for my dogs to be fed with a plain terrier meal.

Remember never, ever to feed cooked bones of any description.
:)

It sounds as iff the breeder is feeding RAW already?? Mince,ribs etc. Well the ribs HAVE to be raw :)

This fussiness your breeder said your dog was is a little worrying. We are the ones who make our dogs fussy and we are the ones who can stop it!
My last dog was very,very fussy,she wouldnt eat the same food twice in a row,would not eat dry food of any description,it was a nightmare from beginning to end :(
Please dont pander to your dog when you get him,pick what you want him to eat and leave it at that,do not chop and change or replace one food with another if he refuses to eat it etc. etc.

Please keep us updated and let us know how he's eating when you get him.If he is picky you need to nip it in the bud,i lived with a picky pooch for alot of years and i wouldnt wish it upon anyone!!

I feed a raw diet...... and its NOT costly, and it encourages, imo, dogs to be less fussy!

All of my dogs will eat whatever is put in front of them, and one of them is a tatty old saluki x, definately the queen of fussy should she choose to be!

IF you buy your meat from the most expensive butcher in town, then it oculd be expensive. If you shop around, find the butchers who will give away bags of bones, find the market stall that does 2lb of chicken wings for 80p, buy your veg in bulk and freeze things, its really very very manageable, and is comparable to the cost of feeding a mid priced quality dog food.

Em

Yes I agree that a dog should not be so fussy.  I have had westies before from about a year old so havent had to go thru' the transition of homemade food to dog food and so have been used to the dog always eating what I have put in front of them.  I think that I will buy some meat as Moonmaiden suggested and freeze every couple of days and gradually incorporate puppy dog food over a two week period.

I am interested in the 'no to rice pudding' comment.

I have a 9 week old Golden Retriever, the feeding instructions from the registered KC breeder includes one half tin of basic rice pudding for one of his four meals. he loves the stuff.
Why is there an adamant 'no' to this idea, am I doing him harm?

Keith

Hello Newgirl,  Before I brought home my Weimaraner I was bombarded by all the different feeding regimes available.  I was going to feed him on Barf, which is pure meat, bones etc.  But for convenience sake (I am sure I will upset a few people after saying this)  I contacted Naturediet after reading their information on the web and was amazed with the help and advice I was given.  I decided to feed Naturediet because It is absolutely pure.  It contains meat, vegetables, brown rice etc without any harmful chemicals, additives or emulsifiers.  You should go to their web site or even give  them a call they are amazingly helpful.  I have fed my 4 month old Weimaraner on Naturediet since bringing him home at the age of 8 weeks, my vet thinks he is a very fine example and his body shape is perfect. 

There is nothing "harmful" permited in UK animal feeds, everything is below the permitted levels which in themselves as many times below the safe levels determined by research.  There are many ways of preserving foods they are all safe it's just a matter of personal choice :)

I feed raw but I used to have a couple of packs of naturediet in the cupboard in case of emergencies!!  Beware - the last time I was on the naturediet website there was a section that was very critical/anti raw feeding which I found a little unfortunate, as a result I turned to prize choice (AMP) as a back up - they do a good frozen range which I now have on standby instead of the naturediet (what I mean by 'emergency' is when the hound is staying with friends for instance :D)
Isabel - When people mention additives, artificial colours etc etc you are usually very quick to respond :)  While I agree with your statement about 'harmful' additives not permitted in UK animal feeds I personally, as I'm sure do other raw feeders, find the thought of artificial additives, salts, sweeteners, colours etc undesireable in their dog's diet and would probably prefer more control over what they are feeding their dog's - certainly ONE of the reasons I went raw :)  But as you say...Personal choice ;)
Sarah

I'm definately for personal choice :) The only thing I have issue with is when people say things like "harmful". 
I think I take a little issue too :) with suggesting this sort of feeding lacks "control" it's not like people don't know they are there and in another sense they provide a great deal of "control" over what exactly is being fed, their whole purpose after all is to provide essential vitamins and minerals and preserve their integrity.  If you prefer to deal with all the necessaries yourself thats great but I think people could be a little more careful of the sort of language that implies choosing to allow a manufacturer to formulate your dogs food is a lesser choice :).

In human foods it is generally accepted that certain food types should be fed in moderation or indeed avoided such as salts and sugars for instance - as a result I read labels when I shop for my own foods so as to avoid products that have these added.  Same goes for E numbers and certain preservatives - despite the fact that they are 'permitted' in certain foods I still see some of them as undesireable (especially after growing up with a hyper active brother who was sensitive to a certain E number in particular, found in orange squash I think :D.)  Birds eye currently have an advertising campaign on the go - promoting the fact that their products do not contain artificial flavours, additives etc etc.  My personal opinion is that I dont know if some of these additives are going to be harmful or not and as a result I choose my own food and indeed my dogs food with caution.  I dont understand why a dog food (take bakers for instance) should contain bright colourful pieces and 'various sugars' and EC permitted colourants, antioxidants and preservatives.  Yes permitted, but to be honest could be harmful?  I certainly wouldn't want to eat it!  I think it is quite understandable for someone to be concerned about feeding their dogs such ingredients.
Sarah :)

I think colouring dog food is silly too, they are colourblind :D  But that is not the same as harmful.  As you point out some children react badly to certain E numbers in which case it makes sense to avoid them but that is true of all sorts of other foods as well.  The vast majority of additives are, infact, the actual chemicals that occur in nature, to prevent fruit rotting as soon as they leave the tree for instance.  I am told that if an orange fell under EC ruling it would have to carry several E numbers, some fruits make me feel "jumpy" by the way :).
You are right some things should not be given in excess, well infact nothing should be given in excess! but that is not to say they are at all harmful at the correct levels.  Salt, in fact, is an essential part of our diets and we would suffer if we avoided it totally. 
The fact that Birdseye, and indeed any other company, chooses to capitalise on peoples fears about these things is no real indication as to how harmful they might be either :)

>Yes permitted, but to be honest could be harmful?

Not according to the lashings of research into human food stuffs over many, many years that our animals are benefiting from.

OK originally I wasn't gonna reply to this cos I'm thinking you have your ideas I have mine - BUT after recently watching a programme called supersize me :D...Come on Isabel you have to admit just because its permitted doesn't mean it isn't harmful (see supersize me and Jamie's school dinners and tell me the same concept doesn't apply to my dog's food)
Sarah :)
PS general discussion not a dig ;)

There is no question in my mind that preservatives do absolutely NO good,there are natural ways of preserving dog foods but these cheap manufactures have no need to use them!!

Isabel i think you have to take your rose,green,purple coloured glasses off :D j/k.

Mygirl have you got your pup yet? How is she eating? What food did you decide on? :)

>there are natural ways of preserving dog foods

Yes, the most natural preservative (and one that's been used for thousands of years) is salt ...

No i was thinking more VitC,VitE etc. :)

I was once told there is no 'food standard agency' for dog food like there are for human food. You know, like the ones who say how much of this, that and the other should be allowed in certain foods. Has anyone else heard this?

LOL JG :o

Yes colliesrus,there is no way that pet food is as strictly controlled as human food,but there are some people who refuse to believe it :(

I guess what they dont (want to)  know wont hurt them :)

You may have been told this but it is untrue.

Although not a fan of commercial food it is strictly controlled.  The following site may help you and others allay any fears.

http://www.pfma.com/public/index.htm

If vitamin C's a good preservative, why do lemons go bad? ;)

Maybe it's not their fault, I blame the lemon's parents. ;-)

ROFL! Or the teachers ... :D :D

(I'm reliably informed that the vitamin C in lemons doesn't go bad if you add enough gin ... )

And if it does, you can blame the alcohols influence. lol :p  Ah it wasn't the wee lemons fault, ya should have met the parents...and I hear it was drinking heavily too...

Frodo, vitamins have disappointingly short lives to not preserve them by one method or another would be foolish so why not use a method tested over very many years through the human food industry.

Rozzer, MacDonalds et al bear no relation to complete dog foods, they are convenience foods that should not be eaten other than as treats.  The school food debate shows what can happen when people over step the advise.  I have never really understood the premis of Super Size Me, in fact I saw one discussion programme on it when at the end of the programme they issued a disclaimer that they understood that MacDonalds do not recommend anyone eat their meals exclusively.
Permitted in terms of additives means it is within the permitted limits regulated by the Food Agencies and those limits are set sometimes tens of times below the safe limits determined by years of research.

You see I think it does bear a relation - I see cooked, processed food with unecessary additives (fast food, cheap processed school dinners, pot noodles etc) like I see some of these rubbish dried dog foods IMHO!  EC Permitted additives - YES, live on it - YES, but unfortunately full of uneccesary rubbish.  I do not believe that a dry food thats appearance doesn't change over a period of years, with added salts and sugars and colourings and cereal fillers can be better for my dog than a fresh meat and bone diet.  Yes, I do believe, and I think its perfectly reasonable for others to believe that such diets can have potentially harmful effects on our dog's.
Sarah :)

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick human convenience foods are bad, if eaten in excess, because they are high in fat, salt and sugar and tend to be low in fibre but then they are not intended as complete diets.  Apart from some children showing a tendency to hyperactivity when given certain additives or an individual's intolerance to a particular chemical (as there may be to any ingredient of any food) I have never heard of any illness, cancer or whatever being attributed to permitted levels of preservatives or colourings.  Similarly commercial foods have been fed to dogs since the 1930's with complete processed foods being around for 30 years through countless generations and yet dogs life expectancy and general health has improved during that time so, for me, it is hard to see that it is reasonable to believe that such diets are harmful :)

Its highly processed food that causes the problem in humans & dog foods are also.... processed :D
No matter what the *permitted levels* of colourants/preservatives/chemicals are, what can happen is the toxins accumulate in the body over time.
Scientifically it`s known that vitamins need each other to work efficiently, also the chemical version of them do not possess the *whole* as it is contained in fresh foodstuffs.

Christine, Spain.

Sorry Christine I don't agree, highly processed foods are not recommended in any quantity for humans because they also tend to be the low fibre, high fat type of convenience food intended for very moderate use.  I have never heard of any instance of humans suffering ill health from accumulated preservatives/colourings but then presumably if they were taking them in large regular amounts they would not be getting sufficient fibre, too much fat etc for the reasons above, so their health would not be good anyway.  With dog food completes the general nutritional content is very good and, apart from individuals who may be intolerant of an ingredient, the fear of accumulated toxins does not seem to be born out by the fact that the vast majority of dogs are now fed this way and yet the general population live long and healthy lives.
I think you only have to look at the two different types of food to see how very different they are in formulation but then they are intended for completely different reasons.
Our Government Health Department issue various pieces of advise about diet, levels of fat, salt etc but I have never seen them advise against permitted levels of preservatives or colouring.