Been lurking for awhile and thought I'd ask a question -why not?

Now I realise you do not know her.

I live in England with my mother and brother. I have two JRT's and would like a Papillon to show/agility. I do agility and will start to compete next year with y JRT's.

I don't need to know where to find responsible breeders, or any research as I've already done all of that. We went to Crufts this year and talked to breeders there. My mother seems open to the idea but its annoying as I think I will get a puppy sometime, however I don't know when. She has asked me since Crufts that if I could choose any breed what would it be and I said Papillon. Yesterday she was talking about holidays and I said there's better things to spend money on and she said "like a dog?" And I said "Yes. I would get more enjoyment from a dog than I would a holiday." I've never been the the traveling type.

I've boiled down to this breed about six months ago. We went to a champ show last year to see another breed but my mum didn't like them up close. She knows I have always liked the Papillon. After Crufts she said that she didn't like that when you pick up our dogs you feel meat but with Paps you feel bones. She didn't seem too concerned wih that though and I think she would get used to that with the puppy/dog.

We've also been talking about names, genders and even on her own she looked at the KC page for Papillons.

We have a big garden, enough money and I have enough time for all three dogs. I wouldn't be moving out or leaving for personal reasons.

I would like to see if you can give me some insight into my mother's mind.

I solely look after the JRT's. I feed, train and walk them. I work from home and also do dog walking/sitting and am seen as the local dog expert. I agree with you -prefer dogs to men!

Feel free to ask me any questions.

Thanks!

When ever you are getting a new dog everyone has to be happy with the plans as well as the breed, if you were to get ill others would have to muck in and care for the new dog as well as the existing ones.

Any breeder worth their salt will want to meet the whole family and be sure you are all in agreement and act appropriately with her dogs.

Are you so young that when your Mum plans a holiday you have to go and can't simply stay at home?

You need to sit your Mum down and find out what she is thinking and is this new breed going to happen.

A worry I would have is how are your terriers going to take to a tiny frail fluffy dog in their home?

Like Rhodach said, it's important that the entire family likes the breed. Maybe both you and your mother need to spend some more time with Papillons. Also, have you met them in people's homes, and not just at shows? Papillon is my own breed (well one of two breeds I have) and I hand on heart I have to say they can be VERY noisy and barky and they are also very hard to housetrain. When we have a winter like this one with plenty of rain, they come in muddy after every single toilet break or walk, and baths are needed every week. That's the minus points. On the plus side, they are such capable little dogs, easy to train to do most things, take as much or as little exercise as you are able to give them, and they are excellent for agility and similar. One I bred a couple of years ago is competing in flyball. The size of them can vary a lot as the breed standard allows for anything between 1 to 5 kgs, or 8 to 11 inches in height.

Thanks for the reply :)

I think she meant more for us to go away together. But I do not enjoy holidays and scenery as much as her so . This was the first she'd said about a holiday and it was just a passing comment. So I said I'd enjoy having a dog more.

I do have dogs round and my dogs are fine with them. In may I am having a Chi overnight so can see how they react with that. Though they love dogs smaller than them more than bigger dogs. One of the reasons I chose the breed I did.

I have been researching furiously on fragility recently but feel that with a 10 or 11 inch there would be no issue. With a smaller puppy I would only let one of my dogs in the same room at a time until 18 months, certainly. I could train the puppy seperate but still in view of the older dogs and also have the puppy in his crate able to see the older dogs training.

I have plenty of research on introducing wih older dogs and have no worries about territory.

We met lots of good breeders at Crufts and I have some as friends on Facebook. My mum really made a new friend with a breeder there too.

There is a little CKC who is about the size of a Pap and my dogs get on lovely with him.

Thanks again :)

EDIT; Hi Goldmali thanks for replying.

My mum does like the breed its just that small issue which I think is more of a non-issue.

My dogs are noisy sometimes too and they are littermates and hard to housetrain too, so no problem there :)

We've only seen them at shows, and they did sit on my lap and my mum's. Of course would meet some at home when picking a breeder :)

Just today mine got muddy and I have no problem with bathing :)

Yesterday she was talking about holidays and I said there's better things to spend money on and she said "like a dog?" And I said "Yes. I would get more enjoyment from a dog than I would a holiday." I've never been the the traveling type.

It's obvious that dogs are the world to you and you are more than happy to give anything up to own and work with your dogs, that is great and I wish you all the luck in the world, but I have a niggle here..........

I don't understand the choice of holiday or dog? If you work from home surely you can save up for a Papillion yourself, your mum may be concerned that she will be tied to yet another dog as you are apparently staying at home, this would not be a problem if you had your own place you could do whatever you wanted with your life, but everything you bring into the home impacts on your mum and brother too and becomes a tie for them still, even though you do all the work.

I just think if your mum (and brother) want a holiday she/they should have one, people need a break and more to their life, you share a home with them and your dogs, the dogs are your dream interest/hobby I would not wish to take anything away from my mum especially a break if she wants one this cannot be all about you and your dreams.

Maybe it is not the breed of dog which is the problem but your mother realising what may be lying ahead in the future, with showing and good results (if lucky enough) there often then comes along breeding, possibly more dogs, it is a lot to ask when not in your own home as it will need to become part of our mum's and brothers lives too, she may love you enough to allow all of this and may love dogs as much as you, but I think you need to think of them too is this the life that your mum really wants?

Rather than asking the question I would like to see if you can give me some insight into my mother's mind. maybe you should be asking if she is terrified of what is going on in yours?

Hi, thanks for replying.

I think you guys got the wrong end of the stick about the holiday and maybe that's my fault. She meant a holiday with the dogs and just Cornwall or somewhere. It really was quite a throw-a-way thing. She is welcome to go on holiday if she wants. If she really wanted to go and this conversation where along with looking at hotels or the like, I wouldn't make a remark like that.

Like I say she bred a litter of Golden Retrievers but like I say, I wouldn't want the puppy to be a bitch. I would want a dog.

I didn't mention my brother's opinion anywhere because he doesn't have a vote. He does his own thing. He would be fine either way. He wouldn't be included in the holiday.

As for my mum being scared by my mind, in a roundabout way she used to be. That has nothing to do with dogs though.

I think the last point is the first you made. They wouldn't be tied to anything. The only thing they do is let them in/out. They won't even feed them in the morning.

Our current dogs are meant to be family pets but I got lumped with doing everything for them, even when I worked full time. I don't mind but they were meant to be family pets. I would accept that I am fully responsible for the Papillon and really would have no problem with this.

Hope that clears things up and if not please reply again :)

Hi Carolcries,

So it seems the only problem here in your mind is just that your mum is not as interested in the Papillion as you are? She seems to be worried by their build, understandably after having GR's and the full charge and feistiness of your JR's. But then she is giving mixed messages in reading about the breed (very good) and the two of you deciding on names, genders, etc.......

So it seems to me that as you will be caring for the dog, training/showing/grooming him etc, your mum will fall in line with your choice of breed, so I wouldn't be too worried, I'm sure you will soon enough have your Papillion. :-)

They are delicate little dogs and my main worry as already mentioned by others (apart from what I've already said) would be how your JR's would be with him, (this may be your mum's worry too) they sound well socialised, and you are going to take introductions and care with the two breeds by all accounts so that is good at least you are aware. Are your JR's mature dogs now?........... If not I would also wait a little longer.

You're doing your homework with the breed and I think the Papillion is a lovely little dog for you to begin showing with I can see why you like them, we often think we don't like a breed but then when we live with them they win us over with their personalities, let's be honest after two JR littermates a little Papillion boy will be like a holiday. :-D

But, it's not us you have to convince............. but from what you have said, I think your mum is half way there.

Thanks very much for the reply.

Only question I can see is if my dogs are adults. They are four years old now.

Thanks again :)

Thought I'd update you as I dislike when topics like these aren't updated.

So, I now have a Papillon puppy from a very well respected breeder.

His father is Rozamie Moulin Rogue and his mother is a champion also. He has a very good lineage.

We've had

It did happen quickly and if I was reading this topic authored by someone else then I may be suspicious.

The breeders are in the breed club committee and judge another breed at Crufts.

So, probably the week after the topic, I emailed a breeder on the off chance. I recieved a reply that they had a puppy they weren't sure they'd sell. She asked if I was interested in showing so I told her all about myself.

Next email I recieved had a picture of said puppy. There were three in the litter. One was too tall so went to a pet home. The breeder was keeping his brother and they'd had offers from abroad and pet homes from UK.

They said they'd been holding out to see if they could get a show home closer to them. She said my situation sounded ideal.

Emails back and forth for a few days then she asked if I wanted to come see the puppies at their home. This was Thursday, she suggested Saturday. I asked my mum (they are an hour away and I don't drive) and left it wih her. Later that evening, my mum said to tell the breeder that we would be happy to

So we drove in the snow on the 23rd March and went to their house. Lovely people and lovely dogs. They showed us their other Papillons and their other breeds while we sat with the puppies and their mum.

After three hours, the question came up as to if I wanted his puppy.

What I haven't told you is that the breeder said the puppy was very excited and happy. He sat on my lap then laid down and actually went to sleep! I guess he chose me too as the breeder said that's very unusual.

So yes, I liked the puppy. The breeder said they'd bring the puppy to our house (home visit) on the first of April. So they did and then we signed all the paperwork after a few hours. They left the puppy wih us!

We brought an Adaptil plugin and has worked wonderfully. The JRT's get on lovely with him. I was really expecting a lot of hard work in introducing but have had to put none in. It really couldn't have gone better. They go for walks and have been offlead together. One of them plays with him and they are very gentle with him.

The puppy has been to a few Puppy Agility classes.

He's doing Puppy Obiedence.

He's now six months old and has been to a Club Show. He does Ringcraft and at his first match night he went in the final for Best Puppy. He got beaten by someone who has been breeding and showing for years.

He has a few shows lined up and my mum says she is very happy we got him.

Feel free to ask me anything :)

Great news - I love a happy ending! :-)

Thanks Lucy and whoever merged it!