I'm looking for some advice. I got a phonecall from a kennel in Dunstable saying they have had a Dobe come in as a stray. His microchip is registered to me (I microchipped the litter before they left) but I obviously don't legally own him. I know the address and phone number of the people he went to and have tried to make contact with them, to no avail (I haven't passed this info on to the kennels). A friend who lives in the area has been round to the address and has spoken to the neighbour. To cut a long story short it appears the parents have left the house and the (adult) children are "in charge" and are a complete nightmare. The dogs bark all the time and are never walked and are forever getting into the neighbours garden. All he gets is a mouthful of abuse when he speaks to them about it. Anyway the Dobe has obviously got out of the insecure garden and has been picked up as a stray. I'd rather rehome him myself (he's nearly 8) than leave it to the kennel at the end of the 8 day period they allow for the owner to come forward. Sorry for the essay, but just wonder if I have any claim to this dog and am I obliged to give the kennel the information I have regarding the owners? I won't do anything today as I'm waiting to see if the owners do come back to me. I know if one of my dogs went missing I'd be frantic! To add to the problem I recently moved out of the area so am a good 2-3 hours away and have a litter atm which I can't really leave....

I don't think you have a legal claim to the dog as you have sold him. I assume that you have a contract with the new owners that the dogs need to come back to you if they can't keep them for any reason. Although this would not stand up in court, the kennels might take notice of it and comply especially as your details are still on the microchip. Either way, I would keep in touch with the kennel, they might well consider you having the dog back as after all you are a responsible breeder and don't want to see your dog homeless.

Alternatively, you could pass on any contacts that you have that are interested in adopting a dobe so he would go to a home that you approve of.

To be honest I would just have said "Yes that is my dog, I will be there in 3 hours to collect him, thank you"........

> To be honest I would just have said "Yes that is my dog, I will be there in 3 hours to collect him, thank you"........

Yep, I would have said the same. The owners can always contact you if they want him back.

What proof might they have if the microship is in your name the dog is theirs, and are they likely to bother going for him?  You have tried to trace the owners and can't (the parents you sodl him to)  Don't see how they can ask for more

I have had no reason to believe he wasn't in a good home so when the kennel phoned me I said I'd get in touch with his owners as he may well have been genuinely lost. It's only since trying to contact them and having no joy (and the info provided by my friend who kindly went on my behalf to investigate) that things started to smell a bit fishy. I checked on the KC site and he isn't registered in my name anymore, so they obviously changed the owner details when they got him.

Perhaps you now phone them and say you believe they have your dog etc etc.

I do know of someone who had a similar situation although it was the second time the dog had ended up there. I think she just paid the dogs release fee (after a lot of communication).

Like I said though you have tried to trace the owners and can't.  I would be off to collect him with some id if necessary.  If the parents want him back they can trace you the same way as the rescue did - via the microchip company (they get in touch with them and the company writes to you on their behalf I think)

I agree with Barbara and Goldmali, I'd just say 'yes, he's mine, I bred him too' and go and pick him up.  He's sitting in a kennel which another dog could be in, and you don't really want a dog bred by you to end up in rescue.  If his owners do want him back, then you can negotiate that with them directly and without the rescue in the way.

Whether you can now do this, if you've told the rescue that he's not yours, I'm not sure.  It depends what you said to them!  You could tell them that you bred him and want him back, but you'd probably have to wait the 8 days.

> You could tell them that you bred him and want him back, but you'd probably have to wait the 8 days.

By far the more honest thing to do :)

> I agree with Barbara and Goldmali, I'd just say 'yes, he's mine, I bred him too' and go and pick him up.

But I've already told them I'm not the owner. Yes I bred him, but I am not his legal owner. I'll speak to the Kennel again and let them know that I'll take him back and go from there.

Then I would just tell them you bred him, you have not been able to contact the original owner you sold him to (not a lie as it's only their children you have located) and you will take him back yourself. Then you can find him another nice home. :-)

They've only spoken to you on the phone...

Id call from another number and say he's yours, you found out via his breeder he is there and  you will be there to pick him up asap.

> Id call from another number and say he's yours, you found out via his breeder he is there and  you will be there to pick him up asap.

Erm - and when the OP is asked to give some sort of identification (I'm assuming that they won't just hand over the lead and she walks out), the details will be the same as the ID chip ......

I'm amazed at how brazenly dishonest people can be (or encourage others to be) :(

You have done as you said you would, you have tried to contact the owners and have not been able to, tell the kennels you have been unable to get hold of the owners but will take the dog. You may have to wait the 8 days and you may have to pay the fee but that is about the best you can do, if, in the mean time the owner comes forward then there is not a lot you can do except contact them and say you are happy to have him back.

If the dog is in stray kennels it has 7 days, then it is sold or put down if not claimed. Claiming a stray is not cheap so puts lots of people off. Its usually a fine of around £100 plus a kennelling fee per day. Surely saving the life of a dog you have bred is what counts here.

> But I've already told them I'm not the owner.

An 8 year old Dobermann?  I think they will be more than happy to let you take him off their hands once the 8 days are up no matter who you are.

> I'm amazed at how brazenly dishonest people can be (or encourage others to be)

I know :( 
If the OP turned up and pretended to be the owner, followed by the real owner they could find themselves a criminal.  Quite apart from the moral aspect surely not worth a criminal record.

I do agree to some extent, but blatantly lying after I've already spoken to the kennel is not something I'm prepared to do.

One of the daughters has just got back to me with her Mother's mobile number so I'll speak to her and let you know what happens. If he's not being cared for I will suggest to her that he's signed back to me. The kennel say he's not neglected/thin but the whole situation is not ideal and not something I'd want for one of my pups...

You never know might turn out that you are doing them a favour!

Also as a slight side note, from someone who has a secure garden (4' minimum fence) the beagle has recently decided she would rather toilet elsewhere, if she needs to go in the day time she will hop our fence, go through a gap in next doors fence and go there.  It is embarassing to say the least but as I can't afford to replace the fence I am a bit stuck.  Also, I am not home all day, if I was I would walk at least 3 times a day.  My house mate is but while she is happy to let them out she is not much of a walker (she has her own dog too).  There is no guarantee the beagle will go on a walk and even if you stay in the garden with her she will just refuse to go.  I live in fear of the phone call from the dog warden.

I know it's a bad situation, but the OP cannot just pretend that the dog is still theirs, they sold it!

Contact the kennels, tell them you want the dog if/ when its legal owners have had their "claim" period, and be first in line to get the dog.

The OP doesn't necessarily know the full story, just what a neighbour has told them too.

Pedlee, firstly please do not take everything a 'neighbour' says into account as being the absolute truth..... I think many people here have their own stories of how others view dogs and make assumptions about their care. Heresay is never a good basis for any decisions, you hear things from the horses mouth only and view a situation with your own eyes, not others......

You're in touch with the kennel and in touch with the 'owner' soon now too, hear from them and only them. Mistakes are often made when others care for the dogs, a lot of teenagers are not going to have the common sense with dogs that the parents would have, it doesn't mean that they do not love the dogs, we don't know that, human error can have happened here, not necessarily lack of care. Have the parents moved out, or are they on holiday, caring for a sick relative etc?

Do not go down the dishonest route, you are the breeder and there if a dog ever wants re-homing, if the parents have moved out and left the dogs with the teenagers and they are not that interested or unable the give the dogs good care, then you put your case forward that you would like to re-home the dog for them as you are responsible as the breeder that your dogs are well cared for.

If they do not wish to re-home, and they refute the neighbours opinion you will have to step back but nicely make sure they always have your details.

If the dog is not claimed then I would ask the rescue to allow me to have the dog back being the breeder, then you can decide to keep or re-home afterwards. But, then again that will be up to the rescue.... they may wish to vet and home themselves.

This is at the worst time possible with you having pups, but in a way it is also the best as you have already vetted so may have someone on your list.

It's awful when things like this happen, but alas you have no rights other than being a responsible breeder who will offer her home, heart and a possible new home if you do not have one.

But....... the dog may well already have a good home and people who love this dog very much, you won't know that until you talk to them. :-)

Have spoken to the owner who passed the dog on to someone else when her marriage ended and it was from him that he went missing. I wish they'd let me know he'd been re-homed as I have always said I'd take him back or help with re-homing. They've had all my details etc. over the years and I've kept in touch with birthday cards and Xmas cards every year without fail. What more can you do?

Long story short, they are happy for me to take him back and re-home him. So I'll phone the kennel in the morning and explain, and have found someone who will collect him on my behalf and will foster him until a permanent home can be found as I just can't at the moment. I'll obviously pay the release fee and his upkeep costs while in foster care.

And the pups I have are a different breed so no help with anyone on my list unfortunately.

Thank goodness you have the proper details now! And can take control of the situation. :-)

Well done, you're doing everything you can, so pleased you have got everything sorted - that was quick!!!!

Now you can relax and concentrate on your pups and their new owners, thank goodness that you chipped prior leaving you, (tattoo's for me.) :-) Sometimes luck does come back to us. Phew!

My last litter were chipped AND tattooed! :)

I think I must be missing something here...

The person you sold the dog to has 'passed' him onto someone else.  That someone else is now the legal owner of the dog.  It doesn't matter what the person you sold the dog to says, nor what you say - since neither of you currently own the dog.

I don't see how the rescue kennel, knowing all these facts, can release the dog to you before the 8 days are up - he may still be claimed by his legal owner - who should also be contacted, since presumably the person you sold the dog to has their contact details, having passed the dog onto them...?

I think the legal owner has been contacted.
It will do no harm if the OP contacts the pound where the dog is currently held and agrees to take it on, paying all outstandjng fees, if the legal owner does not do so within the 7 day period. This is not a rescue, this is a local authority stray dog pound, and many have a strict destruction policy for unclaimed strays.

> The person you sold the dog to has 'passed' him onto someone else.  That someone else is now the legal owner of the dog.  It doesn't matter what the person you sold the dog to says, nor what you say - since neither of you currently own the dog.

Just to clarify, the 1st owner has spoken to the 2nd owner who is happy for the dog to be re-homed. No papers were exchanged and no monies changed hands, so in theory the 1st owner still has all the documentation. Both are happy for me to take the dog back and are happy for the kennel to contact them if necessary.

Don't assume anything until you actually have the dog in your possession.
Many rescue facilities consider 'breeders' as the spawn of Satan and the cause of most of their problems.

At a talk I attended by various agencies a speaker told the audience that the breeder is " last person we return to".

> At a talk I attended by various agencies a speaker told the audience that the breeder is " last person we return to".

Yes ahve coem across that attitude.  The stud dog owner is considered even worse. 

When a friend tried to help a dog out of her boy, who ended up in Blue Cross (the breeders had emigrated) they spurned her as unsuitable, as she owned multiple dogs, and worked (she's self employed), duh.

Yep our breed rescue tried this help with 3 in kennels and wwas told we would be the last people they'd contact.

Fingers crossed the kennel release him to you.  If it were me I'd get a letter from the owner (whichever of those parties you feel that is) giving you or your friend the authority to collect the dog on their behalf.  Take as much paperwork as you can.

The subsequent transfer of ownership isn't really relevant to the kennels and is simply a private arrangement between you and the owner.

Good on you for taking him back and good luck with your rehoming :)

Many rescue facilities consider 'breeders' as the spawn of Satan and the cause of most of their problems.

Yes but this isn't a rescue, it's council stray kennels. Totally different.

The kennels are releasing him to me as my details are on his microchip. So, fine paid (£79.50) and the foster carer is going to collect him this morning. Then we've just got to find him a new home, but at least he's out of the kennels. :)

Well done. Good outcome for the boy

Great :)

Great news

Phew, excellent news. :-)

Well he's spent a restless night at the foster carers (although is finally sleeping now) and as he isn't in the best condition (a bit thin, very dry, thinning, scurfy coat and odd white flecks of hair around his face - possibly thyroid ?) I've spoken to my old vet in Hitchin who is going to take a look at him and maybe run some bloods. I thought this would be the best plan as they are familiar with his mum and sister.

excellent news I am so pleased you have him back :)

Have you taken photographs (or his fosterer) of his current condition? Might be worth doing so.

The flecks of hair may just be scars from minor injuries - even just puppy play with another dog.  Remy has a few on his face from his idiocy regarding my oldie when he was a pup (persisting in ignoring her growls and getting chomped for it), and Linc has numerous white hairs dotted about his face and neck where play has just gotten OTT in the early days while he was still finding the boundaries with the other dogs (mainly River, who can be a grumpy little sh1te when it comes to play :-P).

An injury was my initial thought. I've seen photo's but it looks more like something has been thrown at him and splattered. I'm not sure if this photo is accessible to all? http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=501945423177114&set=a.370931659611825.80934.250592144979111&type=1&theater

Although the fosterer is happy to keep him for the moment, there is a problem at the weekend so I've been phoning around to see if I can find anyone to have him this weekend. This is turning into an absolute logistical nightmare...

I wish she'd have let me know the weekend situation before she agreed to take him! :(

Looking at how the pigmentation is as well looks as you say as though something may have been thrown on him.  He looks gorgeous!

Do Dobes ever suffer from Vitiligo?

Yes they do, looks like it here

After a fair amount of detective work I have tracked down his previous vet so they may be able to shed some light on it. But it is very strange...

He does look a lovely boy I hope you get to the bottom of the problem and you sort a new home out for him.

Back to square one! I'm tearing my hair out here. The initial foster carer has handed him over to a 2nd foster carer with a view to giving him a permanent home. Great, I thought! WRONG. Got a call last night to say he'd had a pop at one of her 5 cats and couldn't stay. 1st carer won't have him back and I'm struggling to find anyone to help. Any suggestions as to any organisations I can try to give me some help here? I've tried the Dobe Rescue Facebook group, various Dobe re-homing organisations etc., my contacts in the Dobe world with no joy......for various reasons I can't have him back here. I contacted my new vet to see if there are any foster carers in the Norfolk area with no joy. Any ideas?