Just seen these....unbelievable....I can just imagin what my Berns would make of it!!! I would think they cause a huge ammount of stress.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/chinaroad/gallery.htm
Aileen

I've seen these abominations around for some time now. You've got to be pretty desperate to resort to these.
The most natural thing on earth is a dog standing on it's own four feet - hardly rocket science - why would anyone need these things?

I've heard of those things - used a lot in the US I believe. *roll eyes*

Must make the dog very anxious.....

I have heard of a very well known Rottie/shiba exhibitor who uses these - all it shows to me is someone who does not put their dogs welfare first.

I thought shows were about enjoying your day out with your dog!!

These are widely use in the US with people in my breed, not a fan myself.

all it shows to me is someone who does not put their dogs welfare first.

and is rubbish at training as well! A wellmade dog will naturally stand correctly so all you need to do is get a cue in for that stand!

Someone at my ringcraft was raving about these and said they'd had some sent over so she could train her puppy, but the first time I've actually seen what they are is on that link.  I imagined them a lot nearer the ground, and even then it didn't sound appealing.   

Wow.. Not actually seen them before.
I know of someone who has raved about them and used them on their dogs, must admit their dogs stand perfectly, whether this is to do with these blocks or not i have no idea.

I thought it would be so much different, can you imagine as said before, a Bern or Newf standing on those??? It just wouldn't plain happen..

I know of a kennel  that uses these all the time, but they used to train there dogs on a barrel , ie put the barrel on it's side and if the dog moves it falls off, so it learns not to move , same as these show stackers i suppose.

I think i prefer my way old fashioned training !!

Peanuts

although they're not my cup of tea, I think it's unfair to mention someone who does not frequent forums and so can put their point of view across, and also incinuate that the 'very well known Rottie/shiba exhibitor' does not put their dogs welfare first. JMO

I wouldn't be inclined to use these one bit. I do think a bit of encouragement, praise and commands, all in the right places gets the same results that these things do, and TBH probably better ones aswell.

and training the old fashioned way as Peanuts says, is also more fun for the handler too!

Unfair or not I was only stating a fact I did not mention any names.

I will still say I think they are unnecessary and I certainly wouldn't be standing my Rott's, Akita or Leo on any!

I agree with you, I also think they are unncecessary, I also know you didn't mention any names, like I said, it was just my opinion (JMO)

how on earth would i get my Newf to stand on those!!!!!
the mind boggles.

> I've seen these abominations around for some time now

What exactly do they do?  I don't really understand them.  Presumably they require the human one in the team to position the stand things in the right place:  then what?

Is the dog supposed to be convinced that this is where it's paws go?  If you used them for a puppy I imagine you'd need to keep adjusting it.

I really didn't think I was dim but I obviously can't see this one at all ...

Teetering up on blocks - A 'high wire' effect - where the negative reinforcement of falling off (thus being reprimanded I presume) plus the acceptence of being in a static position, gets the desired pose.

Funnily enough I've just said 'stand' to mine for 30 years and they seem to 'get it' pretty well  :-)

> Bern or Newf standing on those??? It just wouldn't plain happen..

there is either a bully or a mastiff on a set on the site...

I see that, but how on earth would you get them up on them in the first place. If i tried that with my adult Bern it would be one foot on by me and as i tried to place another foot on he would take the other back off again. And there is noway i could lift an adult Bern onto those..
Maybe starting with a pup, but thats a very unerving way to train, you want the pup to enjoy standing and the show experience..
The command 'stand' works for me too.

Interesting that the website refers to them as a 'positive' form of training ;)

> see that, but how on earth would you get them up on them in the first place

no idea, i'm not saying you should i'm marveling at how they could... a dainty dog maybe but a mastiff??

My friends in the US use those on the puppy I sold them, they are called 'happy legs'. I must admit I'm not keen, but I've seen him on them with my own eyes and he will stand there happily wagging his tail, clearly not bothered about them. I can't see the point though, you might as well just teach the dog to stand properly to begin with.

I have seen these in use and though i wouldnt want to use them i have seen puppies just climb on them as a game. If it is done when the puppy is young, and treated as a game the puppy treats it as such. The puppy thinks it is a clever trick they ahve learnt. I saw them in use in USA and Canada. I think it would be more difficult with an older dog and correcting an existing fault.

I have to say that some of the free stacking methods that i have seen here in the UK are not much better. I have seen several exhibitors training their dogs to place their feet in the right position by steping on their toes. This causes them to move their feet and if they happen to put it down in the right place then they get rewarded. If not then they have the foot stepped on again. Once the dog has the idea all it needs is for the handler to put its foot against the dogs and it will move it. This seems to be a perfectly acceptable practice and I think this is as bad.

About the show-stackers, I can't find the words.......

In response to mishules: Stepping on a dogs toes, or even using your foot to correct a misplaced paw, is definitely looked down upon. I teach ringcraft, and would never let anyone at my classes get away with that. It looks "sloppy".
Karen

> I have seen several exhibitors training their dogs to place their feet in the right position by steping on their toes.

Really?  Gosh, I must lead a sheltered life, I admit to never seeing that happen at a show?

I've taught both my dogs to free stand and to stack with positive/treat based rewards.  One is very good at it, and will stand all statuesque and look adorable, but that's I assume is because I started to teach him from a younger age than the other.
If EITHER of them didn't like to stand / stack then I wouldn't bother doing it or showing.

Those show stacker contraptions just look appalling!  I just wouldn't ever have assumed them to be necessary if the right training is given.....

I've always taught my dogs to free stand, even the Beardies & GSDs. It does take more time, but I think the result is better. I have a friend who successfully shows her Large Munsterlander free standing & she looks far better than all the others having their heads held up & tails pulled out. The lady who bred my first Beardies also has Goldens & she showed them free standing making up a number of Sh Ch.

You don't need this "Happy Feet"method to do it.