> You arn't trying to say show people take all their dogs to shows with them are you?

Some do, some don't.  Same as "pet owners" go out doing what they do with or without their dogs as they see fit.  You would hope they all make appropriate arrangements if that is for extended periods but the point is there is no difference they all love and care for their animals to the same degree across the board.  Some "pet owners" dogs live in kennels too and if the dog is content, which many are, I have no problem with either.

Dogs a babe.
You said
( Are you suggesting that people who show keep their dogs in kennels and that pet homes always offer better care? )

No I am not suggesting that.
I know a lot of people who show dogs and they are pets.
Just because someone has pets doesn't mean they are not show dogs.
Lots of people buy dogs as pets then start showing them.

Your original comment was

> If I breed which I don't I would prefer my pups to go to pet homes than being stuck in a kennel.

I asked

> ( Are you suggesting that people who show keep their dogs in kennels and that pet homes always offer better care? )

You said

> No I am not suggesting that.
>  I know a lot of people who show dogs and they are pets.
> Just because someone has pets doesn't mean they are not show dogs.
> Lots of people buy dogs as pets then start showing them.

Was your original issue about where people house their dogs (ie in their homes not in kennels)?
In your scenario are you making a distinction between pet and show dogs?

To me there are no distinction between pets and show dogs.
I am not getting into an argument with you.

> To me there are no distinction between pets and show dogs.
>

Well that is good to know :-) but that was the impression you gave a few of us. 

Not replying to anyone in specific, just clicked on someones post, so I could add a comment (although a lot of posters, have made interesting points)

Firstly, the show (which I just saw thanks to YouTube) was interesting.  Now, what does interesting mean?  Good or bad???  Well, anyone can tell that it was all one sided.  But thats part in parcel, with not allowing many breeders to be on the programme.  Most breeders on the programme, only got a one liner in, and of course its not the best one liners.

So anyways, to look at the programme, I want to break down some facts stated in the programme.

In part one of 6 (as far as the Youtube videos) someone states "About 3/4 of the dog population in the UK is purebreed/pedigree dogs."  Wow nice number.  Ok, we move on a couple frames.  It then gives the shocking statistic about " 10 million pounds per week are spent on vet bills for pedigree dogs".  See something misleading about this statement?  IF 3/4 of the dog population are pedigree dogs, then OF COURSE more money is going to be spent on vet costs for pedigree dogs then mongrels.  But they wanted to shock people!  Also, the statement comes after the brain disease, in CKCS is mentioned, and so many people will think the figures are based on ONLY defects in dogs.  But what about shots, normal injuries, upset tummies, etc.  Also more is going to be spent on pedigree dogs in ways of health testing too, which does cost a lot more than a regular vet bill depending on the test. 

Lets move on.  Pups from mongrels are not likely to have health tested parents.  It happens, sometimes, that people will health test, but lets face it, very little do.  So people are breeding from dogs that they have no idea what is underneath this "cute pup" so these dogs are passing on genetic defaults, they just dont care.  They say that people who bred pure bred dogs, that according to results from these tests, a lot of dogs have conditions.  Well, if we as breeders didnt test them, no one would know about these illnesses in lines and such.   Also, these reports about sick, unhealthy tested dogs, are only because we as breeders are wanting to breed from the best stock we have.  So these tests are of record, but only because WE choose to do them.  To better the breed. 

The lady who took best in show at the CKCS show, how horrible.  To lie about the dog, ARG.  Cant stand that.  But people know now, that she lied, and its gonna kick her in the bottom!

It also shocks me, that there are only two breeds that HAVE to have health testing done.  WOW.  The Irish and Irish Red and White Setters.  Thats it?  Oh my.  Things need to be done, to make tests manditory, I do agree with that. 

Here, a lot of people DONT health test.  At least in my breed anyways.  We have a "Healthy Breed" according to breeders, but to me, its like, how do I know?  Health testing, should have to be carried out, or yes, some breeds will be in danger.  Wonder what the response would be like, if someone bred (for example - I dont know much about a lot of breeds, so I am gonna use one illness I do know about - even though it wasnt mentioned on the show) a VWD affected dog, to another VWD affected dog???  Not to popular I guess.  But people are breeding Clears to affected, and Clears to carriers, since the most that can happen is a carrier pup, but now we are having a hard time finding Clear dogs.  Whats gonna happen when clears die off? 

I know if I was looking for a pup, I wouldnt go to the lady that said she REFUSES to scan her CKCS!!!!!!  Thats just silly!!!!! 

The programme was shocking, and on a whole, it wasnt a good programme, but it did have a couple points I agreed with (Mainly the health testing of dogs). 

This is just my two cents!

really good post crespin. i think we should make testing mandatory, as well as ever evolving in light of new research. i think the kc needs a complete overhaul of its proceedure and would like to see them given more powers to interveen in certain matters. having dogs is a privelege and we should all be required to work to take them on and prove ourselves worthy of having them and of producing more by doing the very best for their health. there is no excuse not to health test etc now

re the statement below
the bbc actually interviewed a lady with red and whites who is in charge of the health aspect of the breed
very knowlegable and respected in breed.
the bbc decided not to show it, why???
was it ,s aim only to show the bad side of breeding,
i guess it was

It also shocks me, that there are only two breeds that HAVE to have health testing done.  WOW.  The Irish and Irish Red and White Setters.  Thats it?  Oh my.  Things need to be done, to make tests manditory, I do agree with that.

The GSD breed council has being requesting compulsory health testing for over 20 years-however there are clubs that have lobbied against this & the Kennel Club wants all the clubs in favour. The BC has also lobbied for non standard colours being recorded as just that & not champagne, black & white, blue etc etc etc Result they are still waiting the reply !

It runs at a loss Alison

Maybe so, but I would put money on the fact that that is because an awful lot of good breeders feel that they are already doing as much as is possible to breed with the health and welfare of our dogs in mind and do not feel the need to have to pay for the 'privilege' of joining a scheme which is flawed mainly because as long as you pay your money you can join and not based on proving yourself to be a good breeder. I know that not only do I join in with all the health schemes that are (or should be) required for my breed but I do all the peripherals that have been mentioned for our breed (like litter screening etc)  I do not need a little lilac star next to my name to prove that I am doing everything that I can to hopefully breed quality, sound puppies. Yet others, who to date have not bred a litter or proved themselves in the showring can go higher up the puppy list when they do breed.
This programme has highlighted a few breeds that if what they say is true, should have the Kennel Club looking very seriously to see what they can do to help the breed and instigate the tests as being compulsory for the reasons that they claim that they are interested in the Health and Welfare of dogs.

> but I would put money on the fact that that is because an awful lot of good breeders feel that they are already doing as much as is possible to breed

It is not from lack of support that they make a loss.  The fees are very low just £15 to join and £10 annually and they go no where near covering the cost of administration.  The more breeders that join the more the Kennel Club will be paying out to support it.

> I do not need a little lilac star next to my name to prove that I am doing everything that I can to hopefully breed quality, sound puppies.

No you don't but we do all want others to breed to that standard too don't we?  If you read the KC comments on this particular point here, I think they explain it better than I can.  For £10 a year you won't be doing anything more for your self but for dog breeding in general.

Kennel Club hits back at BBC Dog Documentary

read the above on kc site- their reacion to the prog- makes lame reading, it sounds like they are unable to change anything in the dog world

I have already posted a link to that although I appreciate there have been a very great many posts :-)  Our perceptions are obviously different.  I think it give a rational explanation as to what the KC has done and what it is in the process of doing and what is simply outwith their control.

A lot of the customers at my grooming salon have been talking about this programme and saying how shocking it was,I have always tried to advise people who ask where they can buy a puppy to contact the relevant breed club and get breeders details from there,especially in the case of the popular breeds such as Westies and Cavaliers,and to always check that the parents are health tested.Now after the programme all puppy buyers will care about if whether the pups are "inbred" or "interbred" whatever that means.There's now lots of Cavalier adverts on one website advertising "puppies free from heart murmurs","no interbreeding","puppies health checked by vet" and even "because they're crossed with another breed they'll be free from genetic problems such as heart defects".So of course puppy buyers are going to believe these adverts.I think this programme has done a huge disservice to caring,knowledgeable breeders who do carry out health tests,the puppy farmers must be loving it.

Isabel.
I will never post again on this forrum and I sugest you go get a life instead of jumping in all the time with your so called expertise.
If I could spend as much time as you do posting I would not have any time to spend with my dogs.
Goodbye.

> I will never post again on this forrum and I sugest you go get a life instead of jumping in all the time with your so called expertise.
> If I could spend as much time as you do posting I would not have any time to spend with my dogs.
> Goodbye.

Participating in the debate is not obligatory :-)  "So called" expertise?  "Who called" expertise? :-D
I have no idea why you have taken offence to my posting but please don't worry about my dog she is here with me now and, being nearly 14, she doesn't ask for much more these days.

re. post above about red and white breeder (not got hang of linking to posts yet!)
the same can be said about ridgies. the bbc interviewed other people too but obviously didn't like the answers and kept going until they got the right one for them.