Oh whoops, don't usually manage to mistake a man lol..................... sorry to press the point, but the breeder hasnt really offered much, has she? I mean, its only been 4 days, both made mistakes, both should take financial responsibility. In advertising, board and keep, the £500 could be gone in a week, figures are easy to adjust. My friend has said she would have dashed over there, scooped the pup up, dropped the money on the table and ran off with the pup, no worries not that it would have got there anyway lol.....Ok, over a hundred miles is a bit far for spot checks, but my friend always has a cuppa with the new to be owners before they come to see her, just to make sure all is well. And she will travel any miles to do this. She feels if they can be bothered to make the journey twice to see her and the girls, then she has a duty to at least make sure in her own mind the home the pups are going to is right. And she delivers, wont have anyone take her puppy without her to help settle it in.

Not having staff, I couldn't leave the rest of the litter for hours while I did homechecks and deliveries. :)

Me neither, anf not being able to drive doesn't help. 

That is why I hate having an unsold ready to go puppy, and why I like to sort out who definately wants a pup from my waiting list as soon after birth as possible.  this gies yu so much longer to get to know the prospective owners, several chats on the phone, visits before and after litter born, then again at a couple of weeks of age, and then pick up.

I have had some new owners vistit wvery fortnight from birth.

I did once return a deposit and explain why I thought a puppy would not be a good idea to a family where it became clear they ahd very unrealistic expectaions of what multiple dog ownership would be like.

On another occasion I had to tell a freind that the lady who had booked with her was unsuitable, after things that were said and what I had witnessed in her approach to her child and my dogs.  Shwe expected a pup to be a sensible playmate to a very spoilt hyper 3 year old, and thought it quite appropriate for this young child to hold the pup on a long car journey home, and had some other very rose tinted disney ideas about the practicalities of dogs.

Despite the best attempts at vetting, some homes do not work out, the ones that surprised me most were experienced previous owners of my breed on two occasions, they had underestimated that they had aged and forgotten what hard work a pup was.

She visits the homes before they are born, and hubby, her sister, her son or daughter will look after the dogs, its no longer time out and away than you would spend at a dog show. Don't people travel miles for them? Then out the people come to see puppies at 4 weeks and between 6 and 7 weeks when they chose, then at eight-nine weeks, and after first vaccination, she delivers them.

I don't go to dogshows when I have a litter - too much risk of bringing infection home.

I don't breed dogs so I am looking at this outside looking in so to speak.

The finer points of how a breeder checks prospective homes and the OPs home details are pretty irrelevant here.  Irrelevant because we don't know what the details are.  We have one person's side of the story and no way of checking any details.  We don't know that the breeder didn't ask questions and get satisfactory answers do we?

Question is puppy was viewed and sale transaction took place.  Buyer changes mind on wanting the puppy, the only relevant points here are that the rejection of the puppy is not the puppy's or breeders fault.  Should the buyer be entitled to a refund? 

Personally I think the  breeder is being fair taking pup and taking out expenses of keep while she re-sells.  It's a pity that the OP is hanging onto the puppy and threatening to pass it on while haggling over money. This is a living creature who doesn't appear to be being looked after ideally and all the time the puppy is in this unsatisfactory environment its experiences will be shaping its behaviour.

ChervIS......agree with you there, as the dog is after all in the eyes of the law, property.(Although you have a 15 day money back refund from Argos if its not personal goods lol)  and what you say is quite right related to property. But this is a living thing, and in the dog breeding world breeders are more caring about their animals than to regard them as property, there is a moral responsibility, this is where the grey area comes in. i don't think the breeder took their moral responsibility far enough in ensuring the pup was going to the correct home, because it quite clearly hasn't, and as the money received for puppies is not a main issue for people that breed dogs, then at least half (but in my opinion all) the purchase price should be refunded. The breeder should share responsibility for this having gone wrong in this case, and after all it is only 4 days since sale (or it was then lol)

Yes, we only have one persons side. Thats life, in most things between two people we never see all the ins and outs. But, to come on here and say what he has, and to continue despite being shot down, makes me think he's either being honest, or a total wind up artist! I prefere to believe the former, and write as if thats the case. (no offence to you OP)

What we have is a 7 mth old dog, which was only out for 4 days! Hardly time for any adverts to have ended! we have no idea of the life it had before sale--how it was reared, if it was socialised before it left the breeder as it should have been, what was said beteen the breeder and purchaser, how the purchaser found the breeders details, etc etc.As you all so often say, a responsible breeder makes sure the home for the puppy is right,but obviously in this case its not. Unless the breeder is in it for the money, its hardly any hardship to then returning some or all of the money at the time they take the puppy back. Then the matter is over and done with. if the breeder is not as honest as they could be, whats to stop them running the pup on a couple of weeks, the £500 (on paper) will soon disapear, and how does the OP know when the dog is actually sold? They could take it back, sell it almost straight away, but tell the OP they still have it 5 weeks later and therefore the money has run out. I think the breder is putting money before the pup as well, actually. if i was the breeder, and was told what was going on, i couldn't leave my pup there, i'd get it straight away, the money wouldn't have any part of it, they'd have it back no probs.

i think its best all round to have things cut and dried, at the time the puppy is returned, but thats my opinion.

What we have is a 7 mth old dog,

Just to say no, it was 17 weeks so just 4 months, not 7.

> i don't think the breeder took their moral responsibility far enough in ensuring the pup was going to the correct home.

Firstly it is not the place of members of a public forum to criticise the morals of anyone, let alone those we don't even know.  Besides there is no way of knowing what checks the breeder did or didn't do.  She must have sold the pup in good faith because I doubt very much indeed that breeders relish the situation that this breeder now finds herself in.

If the breeder has fulfilled the criteria required to raise a 'good' litter i.e. health checks, hours of research, careful stud selection, looked after the pups until they went to their new homes then why should she be out of pocket because someone hasn't thought through what ownership entails.  If the breeder isn't so great then that is another point that the buyer should take as lesson learned.  Check out breeder properly.

>What we have is a 7 mth old dog, which was only out for 4 days! Hardly time for any adverts to have ended!

If everyone thought that they could take a pup back after 4 days and get a full refund there would be no need for anyone to seriously consider dog ownership would there?  "Oh children don't like the colour, seen something else advertised we might like better, I'll have a full refund thank you"

No, your argument just convinces me more that OP should not expect a full refund.  The breeder's suggestion seems perfectly reasonable to me and I can't see what's wrong with it.  It would be different if there was something wrong with the puppy but there isn't.  However, all the time it is settling into a new home and the uprooted to be pushed off somewhere else is doing it no good at all.

OK OK got the weeks mixed up lol, 17 weeks not 7 mths.....short term memory again........However, i do think anyone that breeds ANY animal has a moral responsibility to the young it produces even after sale. Do none of you feel that?And as you rightly say, we don't know if this breeder has done any health checks on the breeding stock, or if in fact she was one of the 'backyard' breeders you talk about. The OP could clarify if he saw and had any copies of health records, as in hip scores etc, so over to OP for that one.......thats if you would believe him anyway. if this person is such a good breeder, why is there no waiting list, I would have thought after deciding he/she didnt want to keep him, there would have been the pick of already waiting homes to put the puppy with, not the first person that came along.

I find it odd that all you all think about is the money aspect here. you all say you don't breed for money but for the good of the breed, yet when it comes to someone making a mistake (and I think both parties here have) which has been an expensive one, you put the money before the puppy, rather than looking at the fact that this puppy is in a home that is unsuitable. I know he has been made an 'after resale' offer, but how long is it likely to take to sell a puppy with a problem? That may even be the real reason the pup remains unsold in the first place, as you say we don't know the full story. Are you really happy with any home that has a puppy, which for whatever reason no longer wants it, to run the risk of it going somewhere unsuitable simply because there is a conflict about money? i know i wouldn't be.

What would any of you do if you had a situation with one of your pups, where the owner insists on their money back or they will sell it on?

>The OP could clarify if he saw and had any copies of health records, as in hip scores etc, so over to OP for that one.......thats if you would believe him anyway.

It's irrelevant in regards to the OP. What are you getting at? Are you hell bent in finding someway to discredit the breeder so that the owner can be vindicated?

>if this person is such a good breeder, why is there no waiting list, I would have thought after deciding he/she didnt want to keep him, there would have been the pick of already waiting homes to put the puppy with, not the first person that came along.

The breeder ran this pup on deliberately didn't she?  As far as I understand it this is common in breeding.  The breeder picks a pup to run on but then the pup does not necessarily meet the requirements that the breeder is looking for and the reasons are many.  So there wouldn't be a list would there because the littermates would have been sold weeks before.  Besides as JG says older pups take longer to home.

>I find it odd that all you all think about is the money aspect here. you all say you don't breed for money but for the good of the breed

The money is the crux of the OP.

I don't breed or show dogs.  I am looking at this purely as an owner who thought long and hard before buying a pup.  The family was consulted many time, the costs of keeping a dog was thoroughly looked into etc etc.  I took buying a puppy to be a very serious responsibility and once I handed over my money that was it as far as I was concerned. I wouldn't have expected to get my money back if I decided I didn't want her afterall. 

In response to your post ChervIs, an answer to your query and hopefully clarifying my comments....ERm... you said 'if the breeder has done all the health checks' in your previous post. if what he says is to be believed, then only the OP could clarify if he had in fact SEEN copies of the results of these.
Not getting at anything, nor attempting to discredit anyone. But even if he said he had, or not, would you believe him? As has been said, one does not know if the total truth is being told.

As to the breeder 'running it on', once again, one only has the word of the OP and what he said the breeder said to him, which was that the breeder rejected the puppy for his/her own use because of the bit that failed to drop. Was it run on, or did it simply not sell? One will never know.

I would say money is the crux of it all here, on one hand the owner is requestiong all of it back (although he will now accept half) the breeder will not refund until the returned puppy is sold (that is if there is any money left)....(that is if all we have been told is accurate.) On the other hand, if the owner was refunded an amount, he would be happy as would puppy, if the owner gave the puppy back with no refund, or a promise of whatever may be left post sale (if any) then the breeder would be happy..as would the puppy.

If only every person who purchased an animal had your personal views and loyality to the animals they owned, there would be very little need for any rescue except in dire need.

cant we all club together, give the OP his money on the understanding he gives the puppy back to the breeder, or failing that, breed rescue so they can?

>if this person is such a good breeder, why is there no waiting list

As I said, the majority of people want a baby puppy - not a four-month one. Also, in my experience, most people also want bitches - the demand for dog puppies tends to be much less.

>I find it odd that all you all think about is the money aspect here.

I assume that's aimed at the OP? Because most others here seems to reckon that should be ignored - after all, a refund (minus costs resulting from the return) has been offered!

>how long is it likely to take to sell a puppy with a problem?

The only real problem this puppy has is its age.

Think of it like buying a car - you pay full price, and drive it home. For some reason you change your mind (car not faulty, but the wrong colour, won't fit in the garage etc) and you take it back - you won't get a full refund because the car is now legally second-hand.

jeangenie..........I'm sorry, i thought everyone who showed and bred their dogs only did so when they had a list of people waiting, and that there would always be someone in the wings so to speak waiting. I guess the 'assume' bit has crept in there .......lol!
I would have thought that anyone interested in this puppy would be put off not just by its age, but also by the fact that at some stage it may have to have an operation? With respect, i can't see many peole wanting to buy a puppy these days that may have to face an operation at some stage. Thats why i thought this would cause a problem, even with a price fixed to cover the potential cost of the op.

>i thought everyone who showed and bred their dogs only did so when they had a list of people waiting, and that there would always be someone in the wings so to speak waiting.

Ideally, yes - but in a breed where large litters of 10+ are common it would take many months to get so many people on a waiting list, by which time many will get fed up and buy a puppy elsewhere. Then of course there's the problem of gender or colour. I had 6 people on my waiting-list for my last litter (including me) all wanting bitches; the bitch had a litter of five, but two were dogs. Guess what I had to keep? Yes, the two dogs, because I don't have the time, space or money to run on three puppies - I had to sell the bitch I'd earmarked for myself. I didn't get an enquiry for a dog for several months later, and then that was for a different colour, and they weren't interested in an older pup :( . 6½ years down the line they're still here. Of course some people would have dumped them on rescue, but that's not my style ...

>i can't see many peole wanting to buy a puppy these days that may have to face an operation at some stage.

Don't most people plan from the outset to have their puppies neutered?

jeangenie.....i did wonder what happened to pups that didn't sell, so if the breeder is not like you, rescue has them. :rolleyes:I can see why you havn't bred a litter for so long then. i guess, with reading the posts about always having people ready on a long list, and reading peoples websites that say when they are planning a litter, or say they have puppies occasionally, and invite people on their waiting lists, i thought it was sort of cut and dry that the puppies would be easy to home. I thought there was always someone around, or that another person in your breed would pass details on, thereby helping each other. it looks so easy looking from the outside in.

take your point re getting them neutered. what i meant by my comment was that most people don't like to buy something that has a potential problem that could have to have an operation at a later date, something that has to be done, rather than an elected one by them. if the required bit didn't drop, then an op would have to be done just in case its there, regardless of if they want to neuter or not. For some reason, people (or is it just men lol) don't like to neuter males. people like things to be 'perfect' today, which is why I thought it would affect the saleability of the dog. especially if dogs are that hard to home anyway.

A lot can depend on luck with sexes and numbers in a breed like my own.

for example just after Christmas there were still pups over 8 weeks old unsold when there were 3 litters (one unusually large) born at the same time, and sit took until 12 weeks or more for them all to find the right homes, yet at the same time there were people on waiting lists for bitches.

At the moment the club has ahd quite a few enquiries, yet there is only one male pup available in the ocuntry, so all the enquireers ahve to decide to go onto a waiting list or not have a pup.

I don't like to take more than 3 bookings for each sex, as after that the chances get higher of having to disappoint someone.

Unfortunately also my last two attempts have failed to produce pups so have to try again, so these peopel then have to go on someone elses list, on the other hand I coudl ahve had a litter of 8 dog pups and not had a home for 6 of them.

>What we have is a 7 mth old dog,

No, it's a 17-week old puppy. ;) (Probably 18 weeks by now.) Not an easy age to rehome because most people usually want either a baby puppy or an adult.

its no longer time out and away than you would spend at a dog show. Don't people travel miles for them?

Well there are plenty of dog shows and I personally tend to not go to any that take further to get to than 3 hours  (still leaves enough shows to show every week if I should so wish) -now it would take a lot longer than that to drive to Devon/Cornwall from Yorkshire. Around 8 hours minimum in fact.

to goldmali.......yes, where you travel is your choice, and if you travel to see the new homes thats your choice too. But my friend prefers to see everyones home, and she is prepared to travel anywhere in this country, staying overnight if necessary, to make sure the homes for her pups are ideal. as to the dogs at home, they are well looked after, she dosn't actually have to be there 24/7, the dogs are happy in the familys company She stays at home when the pups are there though, in fact i do most of her shopping trips then, ( her hubby is not so good at shopping) but I get rewarded with little bodies crawling all over me!

Whenever did the OP say the split from his child's mother was RECENTLY? Kids get over it in time!

really

Some do but some do take longer due to the parents trying to play the children off to score points which makes the childs life very difficult :)

i dont thinkits necessary to talk about this persons child, its about the puppy and ownership. im sure the poster wouldnt like us talking about his child.

>if the testical remains retained, and a vet has to operate, will insurance cover a puppy that is purchased with the problem there at the point of sale? I thought it didnt cover for conditions already apparent at the time of insuring? So, this would have to be paid for by the purchaser. Was this pointed out at the time of sale? was this condition and its implications pointed out at the time of sale?

I claimed on my insurance for my boy to have his removed (which wasnt ever there in the first place )

well done, wondered if the insurance would pay, knowing what some companies can be like did you have a refund from your vet for removing one that wasnt there, a sort of buy one get the invisable one removed for free........

LOL it cost me a fortune (well the insurance company ;) ), the vet had him open for 45 minutes looking for it   I didnt have the descended one removed though, I prefer my males entire - even it they do only have one

Calmstorm i thing your friend sounds like a wonderful caring breeder.If all breeders were like her we wouldnt see half the mismatched dogs turfed out in rescue homes due to unsuitable new owners!

New owners can say whatever the breeder wants to hear! I nearly got swindled when i had a litter years ago,the potential new owners were dreams,they lived on a large property with a pond,even showed me pictures,the mum was was home all day,and the father also worked from home. I rang them during the day on many occasions,someone was always home!
Long story short,i found out from another breeder these people had gone to that what they told me was not further from the truth! They lived in a tiny shack with a shed out the back all ready and waiting for my baby to live in,it also would have doubled as a kennel when she came in to season and had a litter Apparantly the guy was a truckdriver and the woman worked somewhere out of the home.These people seemed like the perfect owners for my pup,but were also very good actors,i am sure the prospect of all the money they would have made from their breeding machine would have spurred them on!
I know this has nothing much to do with this thread,its just reading about calmstorms friend brought back this terrible ordeal and how i almost worried myself into the grave about the other people who had booked my pups,I ended up going out and visiting every single potential owner and all was well thank god!If i ever breed another litter again,i will do home checks first,i never ever want to go through that worry again! :(

oh sara, that must have been an awful experience for you! things nightmares are made off, to be honest! This is why my friend goes out to the homes first, to make sure as well as she can, that this is where the dog will live and its living conditions. Also, having such a large breed the feeding bill is huge, and she wants to try and judge if the new owners look as if they can afford to feed it. Hope that didnt come across as snobby lol... The other thing she does, sneaky i know, is to go to their loo, and while there she uses her mobile (number with held) to call the landline number of the people she is with, to see if their fone rings, therby making sure the house and fone number match. And she always delivers to make sure the pup has a good first journey.

Deleted - wrong post :rolleyes:

I would take the pup back and give full refund....Whats 4 days, it's not 4 weeks and it was her, the breder that hung onto him or so long in the hope of using him for show and stud I guess. When the fruit didn't ripen as they say, then that was her loss. The breeder may have to keep him but that's the gamble she took in the first place. At leaste you were honest.

One thing that nobody seems to have thougt of. It could also very well be that the breeder does not at this precise moment in time HAVE the £500 for a full refund. Not everyone has that amount laying about at all times, he or she could just have paid a huge vet's bill or whatever, not thinking she'd need the money 4 days later.I say this because it happened to a friend of mine; sold a litter, used the money to pay her bills, no profit made, and a week later somebody wanted to return and get their money back, she was desperate to do it but simply did not HAVE the full amount to return, so she said I'll do a refund as soon as I've re-sold.

can I ask, what happened to the money from the rest of the litter, or was it a very small one? I'm diceing with death here, but........much as I know from my friend, it costs a fortune to breed without monitary return, if one was that broke, how would one have managed if the bitch needed a C section, or the puppies had been slow selling? With regard to food and furthur advertising etc...Would it not have been best to pop a price of a puppy away in a tin until all the pups had settled, and what would have happened if a puppy had a medical problem and had to return that way?

The situation is that the puppy is in an unhappy home and getting older. I gather the older he gets the less saleable he becomes.

The owner does not want the puppy, and wants the breeder to buy it back, but will only accept a full refund to hand it over. The breeder has made financial offers that he/she feels are reasonable, but the owner has rejected this.. if the refund is not forthcoming, the owner will sell the puppy on.

The reins are in the hands of the owner. He may have the breeder over a barrel, and this may not seem fair, but he does.

So, to ensure the puppy you bred, bought into this world, nurtured until 17 weeks;  goes to the right home, what can you do? I can only see that the money be refunded simply to have your puppy home safe. Or, if you feel you really cannot agree to this, then accept that the owner will sell the puppy on.

OP, you said to us you would accept £250, i would calmly put that in writing to the breeder, send it recorded delivery, and await her response. If none is forthcoming, after say 10 days, then you have to do what you think is best, and if you feel this puppy cannot be returned under the offers previously made by the breeder, then you will need to sort the matter out yourself, and re-sell the puppy or keep it, which ever is best for your situation. You will definatly not get anywhere near your £500 back this way, as advertising is so expensive, and you wil have to take calls and have people coming to your house to see the puppy. You will also experience the 'timewasters', those that book to see you but never turn up, those that come and say they want him but can you wait till payday...and never return....and just maybe the one that buys him, dosn't bother with insurance, and when his vet tells him the pup WILL need an op, they are knocking at your door wanting you to take the pup back because they don't want to pay for the op...also expecting their cash back. Believe me, it happens, and as you sold it, you will be seen as having the responsibility for taking it back. Its no good saying go to the breeder, they will look to you because you sold it them. What if it bites their, or someone elses child, and they want you to take it back because of this? of course, you could simply tell them to go away, but do you really want this hassel? Honestly, there is more problems with selling than you may be aware, and as you don't have the contacts this breeder may have, it will be a harder job for you. I bet there are a lot on here that could tell some stories about this very subject.........

Before you write the letter making the offer (if you decide on that) sit and think a while, phone up the papers you want to advertise the puppy in, find out the costs of advertising. multiply by at least 4 weeks. (yes, you could get lucky in the first week) add at least 15 kg more food to that. Add the £50 or so vaccination charge (it will be expected that the pup is vaccinated) and remember you have to declare the so far retained testicle. The age and the problem will immediatly make the puppy less saleable. as someone has said, male puppies are generally harder to sell. It could well be that unless you drop your price lower you may not have any replies. All these problems will be taken by the breeder if he/she takes it back.

If the breeder accepts the lower refund offer, i would have the pup on her doorstep in minutes. If not, you really need to think out how you are going to dispose of the puppy.

Very sad case all round for the innocent party in all of this, the puppy.

Is it me, or is everyone directing posts to the OP, who hasnt posted in a few days....

Em...........your right, wonder where OP is now.....and the poor puppy bless it

Just read the whole of this thread. I feel so sorry for the puppy. I understand that the OP bought this puppy to re-place one that his daughter had lost, possibly not thinking it through enough and thought that  the little girl would bond with it.
2nd mistake was thinking that a young puppy would be OK on its own while he is out at work all day.
Even though all of this might have been done with the best intentions, its the poor puppy that is going to suffer.
I am just hoping that either his brother has taken the puppy and does not work all day, or has a wife that is at home. There again this little girl is surely going to visit the brother as well and will still be afraid.
The OP has not returned to let us know what has gone on and where the puppy is at the moment. I hope that he has taken the puppy back to the breeder, and not just sold it on(if his brother has not got it)
I work for Rescue and see this situation all of the time, and it is so very sad  I have had dogs in Rescue because of situations the same as this one, and the dog  has had 4 different homes, because the poor thing could not settle.
In fact I have a rescue dog at the moment that can not be re-homed as he has been abused too much, and has no trust in people at all.
However he is getting better little by little, but with me he now has his "forever home"
I would hate to see this happening with this poor puppy.
Babs

can I ask, what happened to the money from the rest of the litter, or was it a very small one? I'm diceing with death here, but........much as I know from my friend, it costs a fortune to breed without monitary return, if one was that broke, how would one have managed if the bitch needed a C section, or the puppies had been slow selling? With regard to food and furthur advertising etc...Would it not have been best to pop a price of a puppy away in a tin until all the pups had settled, and what would have happened if a puppy had a medical problem and had to return that way?

Just 3! One kept, 2 sold, so you can see there was not any money made. Likewise in this case, if this dog was run on until 17 weeks it may well be that the others were sold 10 weeks earlier and the money long gone -so in essence only one sold in that time period.

Obviously the point here with my friend's experience ISN'T not having had money enough for the actual litter and potential vet fees, but having come through it all AND sold and then felt safe enough that all was now dealt with and so the money  was used to pay bills. I agree it would have been better to wait in case something happened, indeed that is what I myself do, but not eveyrone will think like that, and so this happened. (And lesson learned no doubt.)

This is very true Goldmali, and i see what you mean. Bills have to be paid, and when you think its safe to go ahead, suddenly having to find, say £500, is a big find in most households, i know it would be in mine! At least with a reasonable owner, and a reasonable breeder, the puppy didnt suffer. Which is what its all about at the end of the day. :)

The original Poster Nrob 324 first posted on 24/12/05 wanting a Dogue de Bordeaux aged 6months - 2years, then on 16/01/06 said he wanted a Male Doberman aged 6months - 18months.
Then he's bought an entirely different breed of dog, doesn't seem as though he can make his mind up what he wants, and now he doesn't want the poor puppy anyway.
After all the advice he's been given on here, he could at least have the good manners and tell everyone what has happened to this dog.   That is if he is for real, as at times it does make you wonder.
He lives on his own, works full time, the child doesn't live with him, yet he's only had the pup for 4 days and wishes to get rid of him.  He's hardly given the situation a chance, but if he's kept changing his mind about which breed of dog he wants.....................?
People do make mistakes, but I just hope for the pups sake, he's taken him back to the breeder, and put the situation down to experience and worry about getting ANY money back later.
Regards, Sue, Sasha & Heidi

As I said yesterday....The reasons outlined leave lots of questions still unaswered ;)

Margot

Hi

sorry but ive been busy with my son and puppy this weekend after taking ur advice i thought id give it ago and see how they got on

Thanks to most on here im happy to report my son has  two 7 inch scratchs down his leg where the puppy decided to jump on him

I think the trouble is he was run on with a bitch that was his playmate and i think he thinks my boys his playmate too and wont leave him alone

Ok i made a mistake i admit that

we learn from r mistakes

But i wont be giving the breeder back the puppy so they can sell it on again for more money

Funny that they have kennels

>Thanks to most on here im happy to report my son has  two 7 inch scratchs down his leg where the puppy decided to jump on him

Yes, that's what puppies do - they jump and run and play. When I've had puppies I've been running with blood from scratches and nips - that goes with the territory. Kittens and even rabbits can give very nasty scratches. You and your son are meant to be the puppy's playmates - after all, he's got nobody else. It's your task (as a responsible adult) to supervise the play and make sure neither the pup nor your son get over-hyped and wind each other up. A puppy is a fulltime job to rear and train.

When you originally posted, you were asking for pups from 6 months onwards so it seems this was your preference. With a yong child, I would have said an 8 week old pup would be better (when it is a large breed), because it's easier to get child and pup to learn how to interact before the pup is very large. My experience anyway with 3 kids.

This si only to be expected, to be honest PUPPIES and young children are a mix that will more often cause tears than smiles, as they are both babies, and therefore need to be supervised, aned intervened between, just like with two small children that easily end up with bumps and scratches as they have no idea of the consequences when playing.

Now nice mature adult dogs are much better around young kids, as only the child needs restraining from hurting the dog, and that is what your son has been used to.

If you have ever been to Mother and Toddler group what you are seeing between the two of them is very similar, except pups claws and teth are sharper.

If the breeder sold pup on at a profit surely that should please you as you would get more of your purchase price back than you are likely to get if you let a relative have him, or sell him yourself.

Why should you find it funny that this breeder has kennels? Lots of breeders that I know have kennels too. It might even be classed as a responsible thing to have, for when the likes of people such as yourself return unwanted goods.
At least the pup would have a safe environment to go to (say for instance if it happened to be an older bitch in season), until a forever home was found.
What a horrible thing to say, "thanks to most on here I'm happy to report my son has two 7 inch scratches down his leg".  Blame everyone else but yourself, pup & child do need adult supervision, and has been said you'd probably been better off with an 8 week old pup.
I had only had my last pup for 10 days when I was rushed into hospital with quite a severe illness, my son (34yrs) took a week off work to look after both dogs.  I had been given injections in hospital to thin my blood (apparently now normal proceedure), but when I came home the pup only had to slightly touch my arms with her teeth and I literally poured with blood. I didn't think I would be able to cope, but even after such a short time I had got so attached to her, I couldn't part with her. I chose for her to live with me, it wasn't her fault I had become ill, yes it's been hard work for me, but does life ever go straightforward?
All that you seem interested in is money, and the breeder apparently making more money??
I can understand your concern for your son, but think of the pup as part of your family too, and do the best thing for HIM. Decent breeders usually state that you MUST return the pup to them to rehome.
What are you hoping to achieve by re-homing him yourself, an extra £100 or so on what you paid for him?
Stop thinking of yourself all the time, if you lose money it's not the end of the world, and did YOU really want this pup in the first place?
Regards, Sue, Sasha & Heidi  :rolleyes:

I think you are an idiot

So how did your son get scratches   Were you charge I think not :rolleyes:

I think the trouble is he was run on with a bitch that was his playmate and i think he thinks my boys his playmate too and wont leave him alone

So how do you know this

In hind sight sorry I have called you an idiot but please give me some info that will change my mind

>he thinks my boys his playmate too

Surely you don't expect us to believe that you didn't realise that puppies play :rolleyes:

If you were trying to win over favor with your son, you may lose it with your ex-partner soon.  I don't think sending the child back each weekend with scratches will come across very well. 

I'm so confused by this thread, but i wont just on the bashing bandwagon.  Since you have decided to keep the dog, i can only suggest that you try and get home during the day to walk and feed it, as well as put some time aside for yourself and the dog, so that it gets use to interacting with you (play) and then perhaps you can teach your son and the dog how to interact with each other on the weekends. 

In my very little experience, a dog that does not socialize often is so excited during the small oportunites it has for play that sometimes it can be overwhelming... which i suspect maybe happening between you, your son and the dog.  Kudos for giving it another try.

Quirky,

I agree that stepping aside with someone of the mindset of this chap is the only thing to do to not end up physically throwing things at the computer ;-(

There are hopeless cases and this chap appears, sorry, to be one of them in terms of trying to help in any way.

Di