Just adding on here,
They way I see it is religions should be able to make their own rules, I am not religious I think its mostly poppy cock to make you feel better about the inevitable which is dying, but for me death is the same as pr birth oblivion but that's my opinion ,I have no issue in people supporting their club if it makes life good for them. I was however bought up RC and it was frowned upon but I don't see how you can change their rules maybe rewrite the bible but why should they its theirs let them  have it and start up a pro homesexual religion instead :-) problem solved :-)  also how can you be religious if it says you are wrong in the book,? For all I care people could marry a carrot its just no biggie but you can't expect a old institution to change its rules to suit.

>let them  have it and start up a pro homesexual religion instead :-) problem solved  also how can you be religious if it says you are wrong in the book,? For all I care people could marry a carrot its just no biggie but you can't expect a old institution to change its rules to suit.

An excellent and very logical solution. :-)

For all I care people could marry a carrot

ROFL :-D :-D :-D

Don't get me started I can remember back in the day when Jerry Springer first started (can't bare the show now) when people were 'marrying' their animals...... actually no, mustn't get started on that....... it's a mad, mad, world out there.

>when people were 'marrying' their animals...... actually no, mustn't get started on that......

Ah, but were they the same sex or opposite sex? ;-) :-D :-D

:-D :-D  Now, that is the question. ;-)

and lets not get into the abuse of phalic vegetables. ;)

:-D

Butternut squash.

> but were they the same sex or opposite sex

In the case of the horse - definitely opposite sex ........... :( :(

Nooooo....... my mind can't cope with that one!

Well ignoring the last few posts I am still at a loss to understand what this is about, am I right in thinking  that the civil ceremony will now be called a marriage regardless of the participants and that should a church wish to perform what was a civil ceremony within the church they can as long as it is not C of E. And why if parliament is changing the law to allow anyone to marry anywhere except in a C of E building is that not a bit strange as well it is not actually allowing equality either is it.

And why if parliament is changing the law to allow anyone to marry anywhere except in a C of E building is that not a bit strange as well it is not actually allowing equality either is it.

You're right, it doesn't make any sense from an equality point of view.  The Government knows this and will be content to just sit back and wait for the European Courts to overturn the ruling, making it look like they're the bad guys.......

>but I don't see how you can change their rules maybe rewrite the bible but why should they its theirs let them  have it and start up a pro homesexual religion instead :-) problem solved :-)  also how can you be religious if it says you are wrong in the book,? For all I care people could marry a carrot its just no biggie but you can't expect a old institution to change its rules to suit.

But we already ignore a great deal of the bible. I don't think Christianity is all about sex is it? It says we shouldn't work on Sunday (the sabbath)  but many, many people do, so maybe they should start their own 'I want to work on the Sabbath' religion. Or those who have committed adultery could start their own adulterers religion. These two 'rules' are part of the Ten commandments, so basic tenets of the religion you would have thought - the covenant with God? Nothing in the Ten commandments about sexuality from what I remember :-D

>I don't think Christianity is all about sex is it?

No, but technically marriage is. That's why non-consummation is grounds for annulment - a sign that the marriage never actually happened.

Im now t sure truely truely go to churchy lots ignore these things, my cousins devout catholic grandma sticks to everything and these are the people I consider in this post not the willy nilly I say iam religous because im scaded when I die I dont know where ill go. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't see why you'd want to belong to something that fundamentally disaproves of you.

>I can't see why you'd want to belong to something that fundamentally disaproves of you.

Just to be clear; the Church doesn't disapprove of homosexuals as people. It's the physical act that's forbidden. That's why there isn't an issue with celibate homosexuals.

Just like the church doesn't disapprove of people who work, just those who work on a Sunday, yet there are still a lot of them who want to go to church and be married there (when they're not working). There's never a song and dance about that :)

The Church of Englands View.

I don't have an issue with the church, which ever sort it happens to be, they under the new law will be able to choose if they will conduct a 'marriage ceremony' in their building or not except that is if they happen to be C of E when the law says they can't - just how is that equality?

Catholics do, we had it ramned down our throats all through my childhood,  also how can you be a confirmed hmosexual without the physical side. A celibate one is unlikely to wed I would think.

> except that is if they happen to be C of E when the law says they can't - just how is that equality?

As I understand it, the CofE are able to change their own rules on this if they wish.

> also how can you be a confirmed hmosexual without the physical side.

The  same as you can be a confirmed, celebate heterosexual I suppose :)

Yes I understand that lol but its just theory until youve done the practical too :)

The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships, but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care. The Vatican and Pope John Paul II are speaking out against the growing number of places that recognize same-sex marriages.

Thats abit off catholic.org.

As I understand it, the CofE are able to change their own rules on this if they wish.

As no one is to be forced to offer the service I can't see that the C of E is in any different positions then - and if this is so why does the law exclude them. As I said I am confused how or why a new law is introduced and then everyone is told they can do as they like except the C of E.

> The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships, but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care. The Vatican and Pope John Paul II are speaking out against the growing number of places that recognize same-sex marriages.

I feel that whether I agree with that or not is irrelevent.  They are entitled to their views but as nobody has to belong to any religious organisation we are all free to live only within the laws determined by our democratically elected government.  In the UK anyway :)
I do feel sorry for anyone who has grown up with and felt aligned to any particular church in the past when they find themselves at odds with their beliefs but at least, in the UK, we are all free to follow our own free will in our personal beliefs.

Exactly I have no part in religon at all now but that is their belief and should be left and not interfered with by the mps.

>As I said I am confused how or why a new law is introduced and then everyone is told they can do as they like except the C of E.

As I understand it it is all to do with their position as the established church having a unique ability to actually register marriages.  The Government did not want to dictate to them but, rather, leave them free to self determination on the matter.  Or perhaps it was because they could not.  But I could have got that wrong. :)

>Yes I understand that lol but its just theory until youve done the practical too

No, it's the way the chemicals in one's brain make the mind work. Anyone of any sexual orientation can be celibate, and will still be welcomed by the Church.

I just think they should all butt out, whats next telling the brownies the oath is wrong or changing the name of the old vics man club.x political correctness gone mad, same with the schools sports day everyone will be a winner yetvknow headteachers are saying we have a generation of kids who don't like being criticised.

>Sorry if this sounds harsh but I can't see why you'd want to belong to something that fundamentally disaproves of you.

Christianity is about tolerance and loving thy neighbour - how can you be tolerant and disapproving? :-)

>Yes I understand that lol but its just theory until youve done the practical too<br />

>No, it's the way the chemicals in one's brain make the mind work. Anyone of any sexual orientation can be celibate, and will still be welcomed by the Church.

Good job too or Nun's and priests would have a difficult job!!! ;-) And aren't nuns married to Christ and celibate?  No consummation there I'd have thought!!

I suppose one can be tolerant and disapprove,  as tolerance is respecting anothers beliefs and or principals that don't necessarily conform to ones own.

I have been reading that some government ministers have concerns about how this proposed legislation will progress in the House of Lords.

I suspect it will have a very difficult progress and could well be lost, this parliament. Being an old cynic I do wonder if DC is of the opinion it won't easily get through but meanwhile he can bask in the kudos of having tried! :)

Yes, bd, remember those 26 unelected C of E bishops!

Dakko I was not just talking about Christianity I was refering also to Catholicism, and they most definitely do not apporve of gay marriage they will forgive your sins if you repent and see the light.l by acknowledgement of it being wrong,  to me that is not tolerence.

But they'll happily hide and protect the odd paedophile priest.

Exactly! Not only them - there area lot of people of shall we say 'mature years' and as we know some of us 'oldies' are not always as enlightened as the younger generation!  :)  (This is to Freelanceruk) Gosh I must also add it it is in reference to post on House of Lords

> I was not just talking about Christianity I was refering also to Catholicism

mmm, Catholicism is one is one of the Christian denominations, some would say the original, but the Greek orthodox church would argue that point, the common denominator is the belief in Christ being the son of God.

You also have different Jewish, Hindu, Muslim sects/denominations too.

>But we already ignore a great deal of the bible. I don't think Christianity is all about sex is it? It says we shouldn't work on Sunday (the sabbath)  but many, many people do, so maybe they should start their own 'I want to work on the Sabbath' religion. Or those who have committed adultery could start their own adulterers religion. These two 'rules' are part of the Ten commandments, so basic tenets of the religion you would have thought - the covenant with God? Nothing in the Ten commandments about sexuality from what I remember<

Agree.
With the greatest of respect...
I find it difficult to accept such bias in debate in those that quote appropriate parts of the Bible but do not stick to 'the letter of it' in other areas.... If they 'cherry pick' what they want from it, how can they expect others not to?

bd, sorry, your last post did make me laugh, I could almost feel your panic lest people thought your reply to my earlier post was to my next post, and you were inferring the H of L was chock full of kiddie fiddlers (of mature years too)!

As you have said, what is so nice is that although quite strong opinions have been expressed it has always been done politely and with humour, and that is to the credit of people here.

I am honestly not wanting to have a final word, but if we forget the Bible for one minute I rather like to think that Jesus would have emphasised the motivation behind marriage as a positive thing. One cannot help but remember Mary Magdalene. 

Freelancer- you may well laugh- I was on the phone as I was writing- the person the other end heard my extremely audible gasp!! :) :)

'

I still don't see the difference between a civil ceremony and a registrar ceremony.
Perhaps I never will as no one seems to know !

One is exclusively for same-sex couples and the other exclusively for opposite-sex couples. They're equal in law.

so all that needs to be done is say that a civil ceremony is now a marriage and everyone will be happy?

newyork exactly, it's all in a word, the option to say 'I am married' as opposed to 'I am civilly partnered'- should be available to all.

People say that anyway; two women I know refer to each other as 'my wife', whereas a register-office male/female couple refer to each other as 'my partner'; they say that the words 'husband and wife' are demeaning.

> so all that needs to be done is say that a civil ceremony is now a marriage and everyone will be happy?

As they say 'Simples'

Anyway who says that people who have a Civil Partnership can't call each other Husband or Wife? or 'Her indoors', 'The ball and Chain', 'Other Half' etc

JG,

True, that does happen, but I can also imagine someone at some point (perhaps someone who does not agree with gay marriage) feeling the need to point out that they are not really married, not legally.

As the partnership is fully legal the sensible, grown-up (Christian?) reaction would be to turn the other cheek.

agree alison gold !

True, that does happen, but I can also imagine someone at some point (perhaps someone who does not agree with gay marriage) feeling the need to point out that they are not really married, not legally.

Also I think/I don't know but when it comes to filling in forms for anything and everything today, there is always the question, married, single, etc are gay people with a civil partnership marriage allowed to tick the married box? I would think that they don't, purely because legally they are not classed as married, so even though a civil Partnership ceremony may be the same as a registry office /hotel etc wedding for men & women marriages, it clearly is very different?