Exactly - which is what her mother should be doing. Thank heavens Mollie has a mother with more sense.

Oh, believe me, it wouldn't be the route I would take. I was being told the other day that her mum came back from travelling with work at 12 o'clock and her daughter was crying and begging her to dye her hair - which she did! I told her to find something out about the bully and cut him down to size infront of all his mates - but she just isn't like that. Her eyes fill up and he gets all the reward he needs....

If only the girl would just shrug and say "Yeah, whatever" to him and then carry on chatting to her friends it'd make her feel much stronger. Her mother needs to support her to withstand this, not to cave in and run away. I know it's easy to say and hard to do, but her daughter needs to feel that she's a worthwhile person the way she is, not that she's a freak who has to be changed.

And that teaching should start at a very early age JG, not once the problem has occured. 
Sorry, we're not allowed to say problem anymore :rolleyes: I should correct that and say issue!

When someone is being bullied, it usually takes far more than a simple shrug of the shoulders to stop it. usually the name calling gets worse.

But, lets look at a different angle. The child getting bullied is encouraged to answer back, be that in a quiet way. The bully takes offence, and the bullying gets worse. The child continues to stand up for themself. An arguement occurs. a teacher comes along to stop it. Then what happens.....the child that has stood up for its self is told off for what thy call retaliating. They are not allowed to do that in school. if they are bullied, anything from simple teasing to punches, they are not to say or do anything back, but tell a teacher. Not even a simple shrug of the shoulders if it imflames the bully. Even if the child is surrounded by a group that want him/her tofight, with the agressor ready to hit or hitting, they are supposed to take it, escape, then tell a teacher. No hitting back, no defending themselves to get free. just take it. Then, having told a teacher they get called a 'grass' and the bullying gets worse. Would someone please tell me how a child deals with that one?

Altering one's physical appearance to improve one's self-esteem is doomed to failure; Michael Jackson is proof of that.

>When someone is being bullied, it usually takes far more than a simple shrug of the shoulders to stop it. usually the name calling gets worse.

Isn't that exactly the same as the 'extinction burst' when training out bad habits from dogs?

Blimey what a funny old thread :P I thought it was about illegal immigrants and find something totally different :P

Seriously, I think bullying is  a big problem these days and having parents who give confidence only helps up to a point.
Last year, on our local news we had a gang of 30 secondary school girls all having a go verbally and physically at just one girl they didn't like -a few bullies had sent round word that everyone needed to go out and "get" her after school. How on earth was this poor lass meant to deal with that? Confidence may work with one or two, or a small group if you uourself have a little group too, but surely no-one's actually suggesting that being confident would help in that kind of situation?

I think a little giggle and funny friendly teasing is one thing; a horrid remark that is a one off is another - but when teasing goes too far, that's bullying in my book :)

Lindsay
x

You will have to explain what that comment means, before I can answer JG. But are you suggesting that the target has bad habits? or that one has to contiue to shrug the shoulders? because I tell you now, I have two boys behind me here that are wise to school ways and are laughing at the suggestion that simply shrugging would work. In fact, they say do that and your likely to get  a thump.

Exactly Chloe.  The child is being given the problem by ..............  It isn't the bully who is causing the problem there.
And as a therapist, there would be nothing that I could do to help the child if, when they went home, the parents supported the problem.  It's very sad because children are easier to help than adults! :)

It's easy to see the parents who make excuses for buying what the children want rather than what they need, and will defend them to the hilt instead of teaching them to stand up for themselves.  Unfortunately there are many psychologists who will support them - jobs for the boys etc.  They wouldn't have a job if they sorted the children in one or two sessions! :(  In many cases it's the parents who need the help to help the children.

val, i have asked a question id like your input on, but its gone above your post. can you find it please?

Just come in calmstorm.  Is this the question?
Would someone please tell me how a child deals with that one?
I would say that from an early age all children should be taught (by the parents and all surrounding the child) that nobody is perfect and that we are all special in our own way, whether we have sticky out ears, red hair, wear specs, big nose etc.  Bullies only pick on children if they can see that they have an effect - it's their own way of coping with their own insecurities!  So let's say a 'bully' passed comment on red hair.  If the child retorted, "I like my red hair.  Many people pay a fortune to have red hair like me." and then continued to talk to her own friends, the bully wouldn't bother with them again and would find someone who they could upset.  There isn't a one answer for everyone, but an appropriate answer that each child is comfortable with.  It's the effect that makes bullies feel good.

Children don't need the sort of confidence to stand up on stage, or even read out aloud - but should be taught long before they go to school, that all of us are different and unique - a personal confidence.

And just because they are professionals doesn't mean that everyone has all the answers.  My daughter's deputy head teacher at junior school was superb to her, even handwriting all her lessons for the last year because she'd finished the syllabus.  But in the 6th form at the Comprehensive, they all had to do a period a week 'community service' - always sounded to me like a punishment for naughty people!;)  Mine chose to go back to the junior school who had done so much for her.  So at 16 years old, with no special training, she was asked to work in the remedial class.  The deputy head, who had been so brilliant to my daughter, introduced her to a boy and said "He's stupid!  He can't even read and write!"  Daughter was horrified and built a rapport with the boy.  After a term he was doing so well that he was back in a main stream class, reading and writing well!  She had just used the same positive methods that I had used on her and it just came naturally to her.  The teacher who was so good with gifted children didn't know how to handle a boy who couldn't understand what she was saying to him.

It's not difficult to teach children to be confident about themselves, but as soon as they are given a reason to lose it, then it's gone.  A wrong comment said at an emotional time can go in deep.  Too many parents tell their children what they can't do, what's wrong with them, rather than reinforce what they are good at and what's wonderful about them. :)  It's never too late to turn it around, but if they are continually given negativity then it just perpetuates the situation. :D

If the child had been called Fatso I'm sure (I hope!) her mother would assure her that she isn't overweight, if necessary getting charts to prove it, rather than encouraging her to diet unnecessarily? That way lies a tragic life of eating disorders.

what would you do if you were called fatso and you were??? lol LIKE ME!!!

I'd say "I can choose to loose weight but being upleasant like you will need more work than that" :D

sadly for kids called fatso it matters not that the parents suppoert them with whatever charts etc they can find, if it affects the child badly enough this can and does cause eating disorders. Much to the dismay of many a caring supportive parent. this is why name calling really needs to be sorted out, as it can and does bring on deep mental illness.

But should a mother whose slim child is called Fatso encourage her to lose weight?

No child should be encouraged to lose weight, onless obese and under the advice of a doctor. The parents should simply hitch the diet, as in diet not meaning slimming but what we eat, to trim off a few calories, but without the child noticing. Simple changes replacing things with a lower fat variety, its so easy to trim a bit off without anyone noticing. And more exercise, walking to school or bike rides after school, swimming, little things that make a difference.

You miss the point - I said the child isn't overweight, despite being called Fatso. I would hope no mother would encourage the child to believe such a lie; that's why I'm amazed that a mother would encourage a child to believe a different untruth.

Ah, gottcha! And I do seem to be doing a double standard here i agree......checked back and i see the childs hair is actually brown not red, so now i understand what you mean. However, if the child is happier with a hair colour, i would still have done it, but to her natural colour, so she didnt notice the difference when it grew out. In the meantime, Id get the bully sorted, either by a school visit or seeking his parents, or on the nose with him! yes, iv had strong words with a couple of lads in the past and it worked. One is still scared of me. Other ones mum was going to get me outside school, bring it on I thought. She must have spotted me, coz next it was his dad was going to see to me. Then we met in iceland when i was with my hubby and they both did a double take and no more threats were made. lol. My kids thought it was amazing.....maybe not the way to do it, but it worked. ;)

Just out of interest is this girl an only child? Or was her mother? Usually children with siblings have their over-sensitive corners knocked off early ...

Haven't read the whole thread but how did we get here from numbers of illegal immigrants??? :)

Ahh - the wonders of Champdogs :)

:p

No, the skin would not be bleached BUT definate action would certainly be taken then, and quite rightly so!

So why is it okay to try to run away from one situation when you'd stand up in another which is, to all intents and purposes, identical? Teasing about hair colour or freckles or wearing glasses or being short or being small or being a different colour are all the same. If you encourage children to be ashamed of their natural looks is another form of abuse and does them no favours in the long term.

The results can be seen in the USA where in some cases parents are resorting to Plastic surgery for their teens:rolleyes:

That's outrageous! I suppose the ads say "Because you're not worth it"! :rolleyes:

Definate action would be taken by the teachers I meant. racial abuse would be stamped on forthwith. this to to the reply by jeangenie regarding skin colour. Another 'dropped' link

I dont think hair dye is that drastic, after all we all do it, its to make more of what we have. to make ourselves look and feel better, more confident. hell, i look like a heap of cow muck in the morning, do i go out like that? Only if Im running late....lol...but no, I wash my hair or tie it up to wash later, wash/shower and put clean clothes on, clean my teeth and a bit of lippy, touch of colour round the old eyelashes if I can see them. Chase the dogs, chase the kids, throw butties together and off we go. Hopefully its the kids in the jeep not the dogs. I have colour on my hair to hide the grey, why? coz it makes ME feel better. Girls are far more aware of their hair and looks today, so i would help her make the most of herself, and maybe some colour or low lights weaved in would help. But just look her in the face and say dont be silly, your hair is not ginger its brown, and go and front up to the male bully who is 2 years older than her.........I dont think so!

JG, I can assure you I run away from nothing. If a child is fat and called so, if a child is called fat and is thin, I would try to deal with it in the same way, but weight is a difficult one. Whichever way it is, if I felt it was seriously affecting them, I would ask them if they wanted to change their body shape, and if the answer was yes, I would do something about it. Out would come the cook books, and we would discuss a healthy balanced diet, which they would then help me to shop and cook for. I would encourage exercise that they may not usually do, like swimming, cycling, dance classes, something they would enjoy. The fear for me would be if they stopped eating, or disapeared after every meal, we eat together every evening (unless hubby home late) and always together at weekends, at the table as a family unit so I would know. if hair was the problem, i would ask them if they wanted to change their hairstyle, and take them to my wonderful hairdresser for advice. If clothes were the problem, I would discuss this with them, and if they felt they wanted more up to date clothes or whatever, we would chose some mix and match pieces that would make them feel better. if this gives a child confidence, what is the problem? Sometimes this can do the trick, especially if we have dressed them to old fashioned, or failed to see how dated the hairstyle has become. Dont we all dress to make the most of ourselves? makeup, hair styles dyeing, the perfume we wear, would you wear clothes that you knew would make you a laughing stock or tatty? Do you show your dogs in joggers? Dont you feel good when you know you are well dressed, your hair in place? or would you attend a dinner dance in torn jeans and a t shirt? And, at the end of the day, if you were in an office for 8 hours every day, and a person/s were constantly calling you vicious names, how long do you think you would stand it? Oh yes, turn the shoulder, but try weeks and months of it. \its torture. 

I'll take my own advice here! ;)
*shrugs, says "Yeah okay, whatever" and leaves*

:)

I think that's wise JG.  It looks to me like you are getting bullied to change your opinion.  And if you change your opinion to placate the bully, then they'll do the same to try and make you change your hair colour next week!  And that's not a good idea. :rolleyes:

Val.....You are calling me a bully for voicing my opinion on something to which I have recent personal knowledge? :rolleyes: i would think JG, like myself, is far to confident to be bullied

>i would think JG, like myself, is far to confident to be bullied 

Exactly. Purely because, despite having a worse stammer than Gareth Gates and a Scottish accent (when I was able to speak at all) when I moved as a 7-year old to rough area of Portsmouth, my parents didn't allow me to cave in and be a victim, but to have faith and confidence that I, despite my genuine handicap, was worth ten of the people who laughed at me. "Sticks and stones" they taught me, and I bless them for it.

LOL ....ok you got me you survived, as I did, you because you had a strong parental backing, me because im a strong person by my own right. Im not saying you are not, Im quite sure you are, but as a child I had no parental backing, I found ways of coping myself. I was bullied in my first year at secondary school, and i simply ignored it, when it got bad i found out how to fight. this was the fourth year girls my step sister had bullied the year before, getting their own back through me. I had the stepsister to contend with too, but she stopped hitting me when i started hitting her back.

that doesnt change the fact that, thanks to 'teasing and name calling' many kids have become distressed to the extent they have taken their lives, and some quite confident, high achieving kids/young teens at that. a young lad near us a primary school kid from a different school to mine at that time, about 11 i think, the final year at junior, killed himself because of bullying. So tragic, he couldnt cope with the verbal stuff.

Im sorry about the silly comment I made before, it was uncalled for, as you said its not like me. As I said to isabel, i felt you really didnt understand, but i guess even I can be wrong (tounge in cheek ;)  ) We all have our opinions, I stand by all i said as im sure you do with what you have said. But that bit i appoligise for.

Did anyone ever say it was easy being a parent..........:rolleyes:

Hi calmstorm

Have you been subjected to months of bullying at work or was this an example ?

Lucy
xx

I think Calmstorm's made some good points - but no-one  has answered what happens with very severe bullying and so on, do peeps feel that is solved simply by being confident? I personally don't think it is but JMO :D

Lindsay
x

An example, I was never bullied at work.

And I have been - or at least, the person tried! ;) I told him to stop being a bully. He went awfully quiet. I don't know yet whether I'll lose my job over it, but I don't care - I'm not a victim! :)

If you read the schools anti bullying policy you will see that name calling is classed as bullying. talk to kidscape to find out the lasting effects this type of thing can have on some (not all I know) but certainly some.

No, I don't consider name-calling to be bullying; we were all taught the 'sticks and stones' rhyme which helps you become able to deal with verbal unpleasantness which, let's be honest, we face all through life. I think the modern jargon is 'empowering the child' - teaching them that it's up to them whether they get upset or not - and if it doesn't upset them, then it isn't bullying.

Actually, the modern stance on bullying is to target the friends of the bully to abandon their teasing/verbal nastiness and turn them to the side of the victim.

Why should children have to deal with a situation that, if it occured in the workplace there is a discipline proceedure where the 'bully' can be face a disciplinary proceedure, or be dismissed? Why, as an adult, do we not stand for things that some of you expect children to stand for?

I stand up for my kids. They are well balanced, they know a certain amount of teasing is part of life. They accept silly nicknames. But, as a responsible parent, when this teasing is affecting their health I react. As schools, kidscape, child line etc will tell you too. Abused children show many signs that are not always apparent, and i for one will never expect them to just get on with it. As an adult its knowing when to step in. Like I imagine you would if two adolesant puppies were play fighting a bit to hard.

>Like I imagine you would if two adolesant puppies were play fighting a bit to hard.

Yes - but you don't stop the play-fighting entirely, do you? Learning how to deal with it is all part and parcel of growing up. Learning how to deal with name-calling (from 'poo-face' upwards!) is just something that we all do. Making it out to be a real big deal does nobody any favours.

No, you don't, only when it gets too much. And thats what Im talking about. When its affecting a childs well being thats when it has to stop.

But not by running away from it, but by facing it head on.

Then you get a situation where the bullied child is chastised by the school for reacting!

Then why is this child's parent backing up the lie?