Hi Keeley

YOu have a working dog that is left at home all day.  20 minutes in the morning is not enough to tire out a dog, let alone a working dog.  You said that "today" he was let off his lead.  Is he not always let of his lead?  Does 20 minutes mean a lead walk?  If so, that really isn't enough for a springer.   40 minutes in the evening again is not enough.  Springer spaniels are bred as working dogs and companion dogs.  They love human company.  If he has nothing to do all day then he will try to escape.  I appreciate that you have tried your best but it does not take "authority" to train a springer, it takes you to find what motivates him.  You should never be hard on a gundog - or any dog for that matter.  What about doing some gundog training with him in the morning when he is out on his walk.  Also increase his morning walk to about 60 minutes with training included.  I would never ever leave my dogs in the garden when I am not around to supervise.  IMO that is asking for trouble.  Dogs, like children, will find ways of entertaining themselves if they have no direction.  You are starting obedience training this week.  How old is he? 
I have gundogs and these dogs are very intelligent.  They love human company and go stir crazy if they have nothing to do.  Perhaps you have the wrong type of dog for your lifestyle.  If this is the case, then you really should be looking to rehome him with somebody that can spend the time needed for his welfare.  It will be hard but sometimes it is for the best.

Annie

Hi Annie,

Yes, the reason I was thinking of re-homing him is because he's not suited to a small house with just a back garden, I was thinking a farm or something similar would be lovely for him.  However, I feel I have to give my husband the opportunity to train Toby, and if that means walking him for longer periods of time then I'm sure he'll give that a go. 

You all have to realise that I'm not an 'experienced' dog owner.  I do the best I can with the knowledge that I've picked up either on here or from books.  For eg, what on earth is gundog training?!

He's not always let off his lead because we've not mastered his recall yet. Even with tasty treats he'd far rather chase birds.  He does pay attention to us, particularly if I shout 'Toby no' at him, for eg, the other day he started running towards other dogs, but when I yelled Toby no, he returned and came back towards us.  So it's not always easy to let him off, particularly when we're not entirely sure that he'll come back to us when asked. 

But again, that's something we're working on.  Thanks for your advice.

Keeley...your doing a fantastic job with your boy :-) and don't let anyone tell you any different :-D

Thanks!

Hi Keeley,

I know what its like in mornings, when everyone is in a rush, about half mornings, woody (lab) gets 30 minutes walk, 30 afternoon, and an hour evening.

I always take out with me, either a rubber dummy with string attached, bouncy ball on a rope, Or one of them long claw things, that hold tennis balls.

So for the duration of his time out, we work him with them. Hes always sitting, staying, waiting, finding, fetching.

So by the time we come back, he is suitably to put it mildly knackered. Then is the morning after his walk he has his breaky, and on the way out, I put all his toys out, kongs,chews, rubber things. empty pop bottles. a sweaty old slipper/shoe.

So by the time we've gone out, he has his other things to attack. and is then generally ready to snooze his way through the next 4 hours etc.

Dont know, if youve tried all that.

BTW, he only gets his toys when he go out. So he dont get bored with them

Alix

Blimey..

You need to realise that it will not be easy, I really do feel he should be rehomed, and if your partner wants him so bad, it should be him making the effort to train him, or organise some sort of help whilst you are both out. If he cannot afford a dog sitter then it really isnt fair on the dog, it is pure selfishness on his part IMHO.

Read it!

Selfish as in, if said dog is left at home for hours BORED is it better to keep it this way? NO, get someone to come in to stimulate him, If they cannot afford to do that then keeping the dog IS selfish, I will not take that back!

Afterwards it was then said Keeley will go home at lunch which I then said was GREAT! So stop making out that all I'm doing is having a go, I have already said I am not, I have also said I had problems with my dog so I KNOW what its like, Why would I judge?? Try reading properly first.

"Read it"  "Try reading properly first"

Don't you dare patronise me Zoe.  I've read everything properly thank you.  Not once have I been rude towards you, yet you still accuse me of getting defensive.  What the hell was that little comment above then, if not defensive yourself?

I never asked you to take anything back, I've repeated SEVERAL times here that I'm very grateful for everyone's advice.  However, saying that my husband is acting selfishly (which you clearly did) towards Toby is not on.  You do not know him.

Jesus, it's not as if Toby is living in a dungeon, with no food or water.  You're taking things to the extreme, with your 'selfish' comments.

NO I dont know him, I only know what you have told us, I thought I was being selfish keeping my dog at one stage, YES!!! Even looked at rehoming him, was <> that close! But I had to sacrifice alot for him, spent more money, less hrs at work to spend longer with him during lunches etc. Now he is much better. Why do you not understand what I am saying? I was not calling your husband selfish to be B*tchy, but I'm afraid it IS selfish if you are prepared to keep a dog but not provide basic allowances to give him company for a short while during the day. BUT then after that post you said you were to be going home at lunch, to this I said it was great!

When I said you don't know him I meant my husband, not the dog!! :D :D

Your comments are fair enough Zoe, but I don't feel that it's selfish to keep a dog if I can't afford a dog sitter to see to him throughout the day.  I understand that you didn't realise at that point that I would be going home at lunch, but it sounded like (or read like) you were saying that if I can't afford things for him, or won't walk him for 4 hours a day then I'm not the sort of owner he needs.  Sometimes love IS enough you know. 

Toby's well fed, watered, walked, loved and cared for, and if you didn't mean to offend me with your comments then perhaps YOU should have re-read things and maybe worded them a little more light-heartedly.

However, I don't wish to argue with you, that was not my intention.  I once again thank you for your comments and advice, and hope that I can sort things out so we can have a happy little Toby dog. :)

Hi Keeley, I have 'skimmed' as opposed to read some of the replies you have had, and will not advise or tell you what to do, but will give you some info on the breed of the Working Springer Spaniel and some of my personal experiences. You may then be able to understand your boy a little more.

The Working Springer is a high drive animal in the EXTREME. They do not make good housepets. They have little or no interest in toys, they simply do not 'get it'. They are much too inteligent for idle play.  Walking a Springer does not tire them out, it simply infuses them with adrenalin and they will keep going until they drop from exhaustion. A Springer can and will clear a 6ft fence with ease, my Megan cleared a 7ft wall with toe tips just touching top of wall for push off.  When the have a 'bit between their teeth' they will not give in.  They are defiant and willful.  They have a very low boredom threshold. 

When I bought Megan, I had to prove that I had the ability and capability of training and working her. The breeder simply refused to sell his pups to non working homes. Megan required a minimum of 3hours brainwork everyday, simply to keep her under control.  Even at 9 years old, she was 100% in everything including recall, but, if I were to lose my concentration, Megan would pickup on this and try her luck, just because she was more intelligent than me.  A working Springer will push any owner to the limit and then some.  They are not for the fainthearted.  An owner needs stamina, durability, endurance, and an endless source of patience. 

Keeley, I am not going to say your are doing anything wrong, or getting everything right, however I do feel that you should have been advised (or warned) about this breed

If you have room for a small kennel, even a 6 x 4 run, it would go a long way in helping your situation.  Personally I dont like kenneling dogs, but in certain situations and for a dogs safety and well being, it is an option.

I do hope you find things will get easier for you and your dog. PM me if you need to

Best wishes
Kay

A man once turned and said to me "I truly admire you, but cannot make up my mind" ....I gave him a puzzled look and politely said "Eh"?  to which he replied "you have 2 Springers, you are either very brave or completely insane"  I admitted to the latter ;)

HI Keeley
I must admit I have skimmed through some of the posts.  To me you are not a bad dog owner, but maybe you have not the right dog for your situation.  I think maybe the Rescue Centre where you got him, should have warned you. Did they do a home visit and did they know you worked full time 3 days a week??  this is a very important consideration when rehoming this breed of dog.  So do not feel a failure i am sure that it is not all your fault.  But it may be a good idea to think long and hard and say to yourself is this the right dog for my circumstances, it may be kinder to the dog to have him re-homed. Best Wishes Meg

Keeley,

Im not going to defend or stick up for anyone here but lets say I can see where Zoe is coming from with regards to the "selfish bit" it is selfish to keep a dog if you dont have time for it, if it is bored during the day because of this and you cant do anything about it then yes it is selfish.  But you are doing something about it which in my eyes makes you a good owner :)

I am in a similar situation to yourself, I work full time and when I split with my OH (who works from home, and who im now back with) I didnt know what to do for the best for my boys but I was willing to cut my hours / downsize my house anything so I wouldnt have to part with them.  As it happens mine are pretty content, I have a large garden half of which is wild / overgrown which the boys love trekking around and they have a large kennel out there, if the weather is reasonable they go outside for the day (today the weather caught me out and it has been throwing it down, I was really worried but got home and called them and two little heads poked out of the kennel where they must have been tucked up all afternoon because they were bone dry ;)  ) I walk them for about 45 mins in the morning, if I leave them shut in due to naff weather I come home at lunch and we play with a ball or something.  If they have been outside all day they wear eachother out with their playing so are usually shattered by the evening and quite willing to sleep but we always have a nice walk, either through the woods and fields or we drive to the playing fields and do some training and play with a ball. Im out 2/3 nights a week with them either at ring craft or obedience, I also have Fagans name down for agility.  If I go out during the week it is only usually to the local pub and they come with me.  However if I do have to go out and leave them they are quite content - and they are only 8 months and 15 months old :)  My life does revolve around my dogs, but they give me such happiness I wouldnt have it any other way.

I have a friend who rehomed her springer due to not having enough time for him, it was the hardest thing to do but the most selfless thing too in my eyes.  Try your best with your boy but dont be afraid to hold your hands up and admit defeat - good luck :)

This is the best advice on this thread - an excellent insight.

> Walking a Springer does not tire them out, it simply infuses them with adrenalin and they will keep going until they drop from exhaustion.

Nuff said! :)

Hi Alix,

I hope you don't think I'm ignoring your advice, or coming up with problems, but we've tried only giving Toby his toys when we're not around, and he still doesn't pay any attention to them.  I don't understand why - it's like NOTHING is interesting or exciting to him unless we're there to share it with him!

And when he's out on walks, he's not interested in any toys then either.  We've taken balls, his favourite bones/toys from home, even the tastiest treats.  I've sat infront of him with a lovely treat, and tried showing him what I have, and all he does is bobs his head around, trying to watch things behind me - I'm clearly in his way, treat or no treat!!! :D :D

Sorry keeley, sounds like a typical, lad. My son does that aswell, looks everywhere else, other than where hes supposed to :D

You could always try fish oil for his attention span :D

alix

sorry just tryin to lighten the mood

:P

I've read this thread with interest and you have some good advice :)
I can totally imagine Toby and the way things are.

Re the childgate - agree a better higher one may be best, and yes of course you do need time away from Toby sometimes... I adore my dog, but she is put behind a gate when we are cooking, or need to do something without her inquisitive nose joining in all the time ;) It may be that Toby does crave human company so much that he genuinely findsit difficult to be put behind the gate.. but it may be that with help and training he would be OK with it. A good trainer or behavoiurist could help you to "think dog" and understand what you can do to make life in the home easier, and to help him associate being behind the gate with good things. An example may be, put him behind the gate but with a specially prepared Kong stuffed with his Dinner ... there's more to it than that, but I'm hoping to get across that sometimes it;s the knowing "how" that can really make a big difference :)

It may be that when he kept jumping over the gate he was having an extinction burst, and so he was getting worse before he accepted what the gate was for. This is when owners quite understandably give up.

I totally agree it woud be a great idea to try and find out more about doing "work" with him. I have a Belgian, and we enjoy a normal walk, but every so often we doa "search" for a hidden toy (over a small area to start with and into the wind, then we progress) and we do Down stay and Sit Wait and Sendaways and all sorts - it gets her mind working and is lots of fun :) and it can all be done on the walk with a little preparation. This sort of thing givesmental tiredness which is helpful even if it doesnt cure all the problems.

Good luck with Toby anyway,

Lindsay
x

The trouble with dogs toys is that they tend to be very dull things on their own - most of them involve human input to make them 'come alive'. A ball doesn't throw itself, and you can't play tug on your own, for instance! So to be honest it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't play with toys when he's alone.

And of course, when he's out he's like a child in a toy shop, wanting to see everything all at once - once again, just what I'd expect from an intelligent dog. Taking along the toys that are played with at home just won't cut any ice when there's all the new smells and sights! Do you ever walk him with other people and their dogs? If you can go out in a 'gang' with pals he'll have a lot of fun interacting with his own species. I'd also suggest you do lots of training with him when you're out - sits, downs, recalls, and retrieving of course! All involve mental activity which will benefit him.

Hope some of this helps.
:)

> A ball doesn't throw itself,

it does if you are a setter ;)  mine spend ages throwing their toys in the air and then jumping up and catching them and then launching them accross the garden and chasing after them :rolleyes:

Dogs that get anxious at being left will generally destroy things,  try to escape etc within the first minutes after you leave. 

It is very common for Spaniels to be prone to seperation anxiety and in Toby's case he is a resuce dog to boot. 

His pooing in the kitchen previously is also a common sign of this.  So he is obviously getting better but hasn't got to the comfort zone yet about being left.

When dogs are anxious they will not eat or play.

>I think it's him being a pain in the behind and wanting to chase birds.  Slightly bored perhaps, but then that's his choice - he's given tons of toys to play with.

>I don't understand why - it's like NOTHING is interesting or exciting to him unless we're there to share it with him!

The problem is Keeley that dogs (particularly gundogs) like human interaction.  They do not do the human equivalent of reading a book or playing a game on their own.

Personally, I would say 8 and a half hours is way too long to leave a young working springer (or any dog).  I work from home, but have to go out once or twice a week in which case I get a dog walker in to break up the day.  I can't really afford it either, but my dog is a priority, so I do without in other areas.  I think you've been given excellent advice, but I do think you may be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  To be honest, I think the rescue has a lot to answer for here.

Just a small point to help out with the recall, don't use his name when you tell him NO. I.e. you said you shout "Toby, no!" His name needs to be something used only for pleasant things, like treats and praise and cuddles and feeding, so that when it is used for recall he thinks great, I hear my name, something nice is going to happen. :)

Marianne

Hi Keeley

Sorry if I sounded harsh.  I don't mean to honestly.  I know you must be trying your best.  Why would you be posting on here if you didn't love your little dog!!!  Anyway, how can we tire your little boy out on his walks so that he will settle when he gets home?  Can I ask you, do you play with Toby when you are out?  Do you have a ball or something that he can chase?  THe problem with most dogs' recall is that everything else is more interesting than their owners i.e. other dogs, people, "birds" etc., etc., etc.,  While of course he should be allowed to chase birds and run free, it should be in a controlled manner.  He must also has to realise that you are extremely interesting too!!!  I see so many people walking with their dogs without any interaction between then.  This is one of the worst mistakes you can make.  Out on a walk is an ideal training opportunity.  You can do it without even realising you are doing it.  What I have done with my rescue dog  Bazil in the past is to have a toy that I get him really interested in.  With a springer, he would be really interested in a squeaky toy!!  Play with him in the garden with it and then put it away where he can't get it.  Half an hour later take it out and play with him again!!  Then put it away etc., etc.,   This toy should always be put away when you are not playing with it.  He never gets to play with it on his own.  It is your toy and you only let him play with it when you want him to.  This toy should then be used when you take him out on your walks.  You should actively play with him with it so that you become the most interesting thing to Toby.  If you think about it, if you have access to something you really like, for me it would be Robbie Williams!!!  I would soon get fed up with him if I could "play" with him whenever I wanted to (well perhaps that's not a very good example!).  For instance, I always wanted an Audi A3, I absolutely loved them because I didn't have one.  I then managed to get an Audi A3 sport.  2 weeks later it was just a car because it had lost its interest.  Relating this to Toby.  If he only ever gets to play with that toy when he is out on his walks then that toy will/should become the most important thing to him and getting him back should become easier when you "squeak" his favourite toy.  It really worked for my dog and he was a very disturbed boy!!  The other thing to not is that dogs will not often play with toys on their own, they actually quite like somebody to play with them.  If you spend some time in the evening playing with toys with him in the garden, this will actually tire him out more than a long walk.  A play and a walk will work wonders.  Its all about mental stimulation.  If springers don't get that they can't be quite a handful.  Re the situation the other day when he ran away towards another dog.  In this situation you would then squeak his toy.  Do you get the idea?  Its hard to describe online.  If you want to PM me I can go into more detail with you.

What you are trying to achieve is to become the most interesting thing in Toby's life - even if it means making a fool of yourself to do it!!!  I think I read that you feed him dry food.  Why not mix some dry food with perhaps some naturediet wet dog food and fill his kong.  This would keep him really enthralled for a while.  Don't always think that you have to feed your dog out of a bowl.  YOu can feed Toby using his kong.  That way he will have to use his brain to get it out.  Another good thing is Primula lite.  Squeeze some into the kong (not too much) and pop it in the freezer.  He'll spend a long time licking away at this too.  Hope some of these suggestions help but don't hesitate to get in touch if you'd like to discuss any aspect further.  I also think the obedience classes will help with his concentration.

Best wishes
Annie

PS::It doesn't matter what size of house or garden you have with a dog.  If your dog is occupied he won't even notice.  Even a large house or garden becomes boring after a while if there is nothing to do.  I'm sure he would try and escape from that too.

That's excellent advice Annie, thank you.  I've never thought about a squeaky toy.  We did get him one once, but he simply chewed it to death :rolleyes:  I will certainly buy him one and try that trick with the walk, and practising in the garden. 

When Tobys on his walks normally he doesn't take any interest in balls etc, but I think you've definitely set me on the right track with a squeaky toy.

I do worry a bit about playing 'excitedly' with him in the house, as he always ends up hurting me, whether it be jumping up at me and scratching me, or kicking me in the stomach etc.  The more excited I play with him, the more excited he gets (naturally).  I do stop games when he hurts me, but I'm becoming covered in bruises!! As I mentioned above the other day he jumped on me for no reason whatsoever and caused my gums to bleed!!  I'm not good with pain!!!

You didn't sound harsh at all BTW.

Hi Kelley

Just back from the vet with Megan, one of my rescue dogs.  Having re-read your post about Toby getting over-excited, this is often a problem with rescue dogs who have had no formal education in manners when they are puppies.  People often think its fine for their dog to jump up when they are small but take exception when they do it when they are bigger or covered in mud!!!!  The key here I think is to get him into a routine and whenever he gets over-excited just stop what you are doing immediately.  If he jumps at you for no reason, turn your back on him and walk away.  Say nothing as anything you say will be seen as a reward for the behaviour.  Its not easy but he sounds like a clever wee dog and it really is consistency.  When you are playing with the ball, keep the play controlled and, always, just before he becomes over-excited, end the game with a lovely treat and put the toy away.  He will soon learn.  How old is he?  He doesn't sound as if he is very old and just needs a bit guidance as to what is right and what is wrong.  If he is super-keen for you to be with him all the time he may be a bit insecure.  I'm sure with time and consistency he will turn into a wonderful dog.  The problem that you have when you take on a rescue dog is that you don't know what has gone before you.  It took me almost a year until Bazil really calmed down and started to trust me.  Think of Toby's training as a "project" - one that will have to be carried out slowly.  Remember, take things slowly and don't expect too much, too soon.  He may have had a really hard time in his past life.

Keep me posted with his progress.

Annie

Hi Keeley
What a long thread!  I'm sure someone will already have suggested it, but why not try exercising your springer on a long line?  That way, he can run relatively free and get more exercise and you can be sure of being able to reinforce the recall should he decide to ignore you.  Also, what about dividing his food up into two smaller portions a day - mix with some other goodies such as peanut butter or low fat cream cheese, insert into a kong and freeze them!  When you leave him in the morning give him the first kong and when you leave him in the afternoon after your lunchtime visit, give him the second one.  As they are frozen, they take ages for the dog to consume and if he is not being fed at any other time, he will be hungry and 'driven' to work to consume them.  Raw meaty bones (often free from your butcher) are great for recreation too. 

I can verify what others have said about clicker training tiring the brain;  a brain dead dog is a TIRED dog indeed, so it may be worth revisiting that.  I have an 18 month old GSP (another hyperactive gundog breed) and although I work from home most of the time, I have the odd day down in London or wherever and need to leave him to his own devices then - it's not ideal, but it is do-able if you exercise them sufficiently beforehand and plan ahead for their entertainment in your absence.  All you can do, is give it your best shot and review the situation in maybe a month or so and decide if it is working or not.   

Good luck!

>I'm sure someone will already have suggested it, but why not try exercising your springer on a long line?  That way, he can run relatively free

I do not wish to be rude to any of the people who have been kind enough to reply to you Keeley, but this is simply what not to do!!!!  Unfortunately very few people have the understanding of what a Working Spring Spaniel is all about, He is totally unlike any other dog, does not respond in the same way and does not have the same values.  His needs and requirements are so much greater and your only way of working anything out with him is to feed his brain.  Working on a long line will only allow him to carry on at will exactly what he is doing now.  Short lead walks only, constantly training him to heel, stops, sits, stay, about turns, etc, all during his walks, this is brainwork, this will tire him more than running free or long leash ever will.  have already stated, that the more he runs (either free or on long leash) the more energy he will have, he will be bursting with adrenalin. I have known a Springers heart to stop before it did, literally!!!!!

People, this is a working springer we are talking about, this dog is the epitamy of endless energy, the intelligence of this dog is amazing, it needs feedin & working, brains and stamina are what this breed is all about, it is what this dog is bred for (it aint called a springer for nowt) :D :D

Channel his exuberance, use his intelligence, work on his need to please you, work his brain, teach him colours, teach him different shapes, all on a retrieve basis, you will bond so well during these training sessions, believe me, All a springer wants to do is please, but he needs to be understood for you to be able to allow this to happen ;)

Kayc,

Toby is a springer cross.  He's not a working springer.  He may have some springer in him but he is crossed with something else.  He is therefore not from working lines and it would be unwise to presume that he is.  I agree that, in general,  the more exercise a dog gets the more he will want but I would never lead-walk a springer spaniel constantly.  This breed needs to run and hunt and, contrary to what you are saying, they are perfectly trainable if they are allowed to run free.  I have a working cocker spaniel and his breeder (who has trained dogs to field trial champ!) lets his dogs run free for the first year and then starts his training on an individual basis.  He has springers, cockers and labs.  To say that most people don't understand the needs of springer spaniels comes over as a bit arrogant I have to say.  I know plenty of people who have working springer spaniels as pets and they are wonderful dogs.  As long as they have a full and interesting life, with plenty of opportunity to do what comes naturally, then they are absolutely fine.  What Keeley is having difficulty with is the fact that Toby is a rescue dog and she and her OH are relatively inexperienced.  How do you expect somebody with little experience to teach her dog colours and shapes on a retrieve basis?  Yes, work the dog's brain but this little soul is a pet and Keeley is looking for ways to entertain him when she is not around.  Sometimes even I forget what it was like to have my first dog and I certainly wouldn't have known how to train her to sit, let alone "teach her colours..... on a retrieve basis!!!!"  I think the advice given here generally has been excellent - all within the ability of owners who have recently acquired their first dog. I personally don't see anything wrong with training Toby on a long line if that's what Keeley wants to do.  However, there is more to line training than just attaching a long line and leaving the dog to get on with it which is what you seem to think is the case.  There are the commands the dog has to learn even before a line is attached! 

Annie

Kay sits back, firmly put in her place,

LOL - sorry about that!  Didn't mean to come over bolshy!  It's just sooo difficult online!!!

Annie

By the way - how do you teach colours and shapes?  That sounds really interesting.  I'm not saying this in jest.  I'm really intrigued!

No worries, I have very thick skin ;)

Annie,

I'm sure your post contains several helpful elements in it for Keeley as have many others (she'll have a heart attack when she sees how far this thread has gone :P ) but to be fair, Kay has extensive experience with the breed also and while I have never owned Springers have friends that do from both working and show lines and met a number of Springer Xs too so can fully appreciate where Kay is coming from in some of her points also. 

Please don't dismiss an experienced member's post as being arrogant - (I can't think of any occasion when this lady could be described as that :( )   Frankly I agree with her that many of the gundog breeds are VERY misunderstood by those who have not owned them and started with a reliable mentor within their breed to help them through training difficulties.  Just because this dog is a ES x doesn't mean it won't have inherited the traits of the average Springer which is a lively, inquisitive and energetic dog not always suited to the average lifestyle and even Keely herself never mind us as posters doesn't have the benefit of a history on this dog.  We can only give our advice based on personal opinions and better so if by direct personal experience.  However there is no cast in stone version of correct for anyone that has not had the benefit of observing the dog in its current environment.

I hope this reply is taken in the spirit in which it was meant.  Regards, Teri :)

Teri, you are so sweet,.... you called me a 'Lady'  :) )))

Annie,

Working with colours and shapes is like any other training. And great fun!!! Once a dog has mastered a simple retrieve or fetch it gets boring with the same old, same old.  Dogs dont speak English, and have no inkling of what a colour is, so the tone of you voice donates the colour.  Black ball, white ball and a yellow ball. Using a tone for one colour at a time, then introduce another colour using a different tone and so on.  Same with Shapes, keep shapes to simple names, Round, Square, and brick.  I use the word brick for oblong, keeping the words monosylabic. Again, master one then introduce another shape. Go overboard on the praise when he gets it right, ignore and replace when wrong.

You're not just a lady you're perceptive too -  you called me SWEET  :o :) :P (althought to be fair OH would say you're obviously mad then :D )

Hi Teri

I appreciate what you are saying and take that on board.  I also wholeheartedly agree that springers are lively, inquisitive, intelligent dogs and they are an absolute nightmare if in the wrong hands because you can't tire the dog out by purely walking it.  They do not make good housepets if they don't get the proper stimulation but that doesn't mean they absolutely have to work and can't be kept as a pet!  Don't you agree?  I've replied to Kay and apologised if I sounded bolshy.  That wasn't my intention.  I have a working cocker that I've only recently started training to the gun.  He is absolutely loving it!  But I have to say that he loved his life before because it was filled with stimulating things to do each day and he didn't feel as if he was missing out.  If I stopped doing his training now though he would feel miffed, so I'm probably making a rod for my own back, so to speak!  It's obvious that Kay has extensive experience of springers and that her dogs have a wonderful life because she fully understands their needs but unfortunately not everybody has the same time (or dedication!) and that was what I was trying to say but obviously failed miserably. (I would do a smiley face here but don't know how to do them!).

I am the last person who would want to offend anyone.

Best wishes
Annie

Hi Annie,

Didn't mean to be critical - we can all have a group {{{hug}}}  :P

We have friends who recently lost their Springer x Cocker at a healthy age of almost 16 years - both original parents being "claimed" to be from working lines.  Anyway, they were just a regular family, enjoyed walking their dog a couple of times a day and playing with it in the garden with toys - they did this naturally to them - nothing whatsoever to do with their knowledge of training a dog of his background.  However this little guy was soooooo clever and they had him trained to bring certain objects by name and also by colour.  A good eg. being one day when we visited they sent him from the garden into the kitchen to get a bag of crisps - he went through the door (opened it himself) and opened the kitchen cupboard where they were kept and retrieved a bag of crisps.  We were gobsmacked :D but to make things even better his owner said to him "No, the green ones" and the dog went back and swapped his blue packet for a green one    This was done with a regular family pet, no particular skills on the owners' part, just they liked to teach all their previous dogs (mainly mongrels) to do "party tricks".

Sorry for long winded reply but seeing that little busy tailed dog doing that and similar "tricks" impressed me beyond belief all the more so because his owners never took him to any formal classes nor were ever to my knowledge in touch with his breeder after they bought him.  He lived a long, happy and delightful existence until sadly through deafness and a touch of senility he was killed by a car on the quiet cul-de-sac where he'd lived all his days :(   Just thought I'd share a positive story (well, right up until the last line :rolleyes: )  regards, Teri :)

Oh Teri, what a lovely story, but sad that his life ended so tragically.

Therein lies the difference between Springers and Labs, Springers retrieve the packet of crisps, Labs retrieve the packet that once contained the crisps :D :D  (packet colour immaterial)

ok group hug over, dont go all soppy on me, I dont do soppy, very disconcerting ;) :P

Confidentially, (wouldn't want to make this public) I don't do "sweet" :D :D :D

Teri ;)

Hi Teri

I wasn't around for the group hug last night so I've just hugged myself this morning!!!!  What a lovely lovely story and I bet that wee dog didn't even think he was doing anything special!  My wee Jack is soo clever and I knew I would have my work cut out for me before I got him.  THe WCs I'd seen prior to buying my boy seemed to be very high but I have to say that just isn't Jack.  I always do bits and pieces with him while we are out and about and when he gets home he just lies around waiting for his next "job".  When I brought him home at 8 weeks he walked into the house from the back garden.  Megan and Bazil were lying sleeping on the sofa (enjoying their peaceful life!).  He tried to get up onto the sofa but couldn't reach so he just took at look at the situation, walked around the back of the sofa, climbed up the stairs and jumped onto the sofa on top of them.  Well, as you can imagine, the dogs got the fright of their lives and jumped off.  Jack simply toddled over to the cosiest corner and went to sleep.  I told the breeder about this and he was helpless.  I have to say that this really marked the end of my "quiet" life.  I didn't know how easy my other 2 rescue dogs were until I got him.  One thing about him though, he does seem to assess the situation before making his move.  Richard (the breeder) told me that his dad was like that.  He would come out the kennel and sit looking around him until he decided what to do. 

I absolutely adore spaniels.  I had my real fix this last weekend as I spent 3 days at Perth Game Fair.  There were springers, cockers, labs, GSPs - the whole shabang, all in abundance and not a cross word between any of them. 

Kay,  I completely agree with the difference between spaniels and labs however, I bought myself a sausage roll on Saturday and got to the last mouthful - and you know how important that last bit is, it's the best bit of the roll really!  I was putting something into the back of the car and Jack came up and just took it.  I was devastated.  Got a few chuckles all round though.

Best wishes
Annie

wow thats a big post! lol

:D :D :D

Keeley

I don't play with my dogs in the house at all.  The house is for calm!!!  I do play in the garden though but as soon as it gets too boisterous the toys go away.  They soon get the message

Annie

Hi Keeley,
There are very very few people on Champdogs that are cruel to there dogs.
Or they wouldn't be on here.
Everyone is diffrent every dog is diffrent. My three Samoyds are completly diffrent.
Like rearing children there is no right way for every dog, nobody is perfect.
If you love your dog don't get ride of him, he could go to somewhere were they don't
care as much as you do. Trial and error girl!!!
It's so easy to give advice, Don't take things to heart a!!!!
Regards
Denese

I know I do tend to get carried away!!!!  Did you like the bit about not getting bored with Robbie?

Annie

This is a very long thread and I have only skim read over it.  I would agree that this dog is getting nowhere near enough exercise or mental stimulation and the best way for this to be achieved would be to take him to gundog training classes and channel his energy into the job he's been bred for.

I have three spaniels who spend time in their kennel and in the garden when they are left (from 9 - 3pm on occasion).  They have over an hour in the morning (yes, I often get up at 5am) and the same or more in the evening. My three all live to work and spend their time waiting around until it's time to go to work again!

You can manage this situation I am sure, without the need to rehome.

Good luck.

Wow he sounds a handful :D :D
I think you're doing fine and have got some excellent advice here!
Re-think the rehoming as i suspect thats probably why he was there in the 1st place and if he went back again as from what you say the rescue is hardly specific on who he goes to and it could happen again.

Keep at it you sound like you will knuckle down and do the best for him. :)

I've only skimmed this post too but I don't think you're being cruel. If you're sure your garden is too small for a roofed pen then it sounds like you will have to keep him inside. How about those balls with holes in where you put treats and the dog chases it around getting all the bits of food out? I also work fulltime, but luckily can get home at lunchtime to play with my dogs. It does sound like you might have been better off with a smaller dog, perhaps a Cavalier that doesn't need quite as much exercise? But if you keep up the effort I hope you will see some results as he gets more used to being with you. Good luck!

.....robbie.....<sigh drool and dribble>.................
ok i'm sad...just had to get my robbie fix, stare at the calendar in the kitchen and sigh at him. Isn't he just divine????? Its your fault Annie!!!!!

nicola x

Hi Keeley

How are you bearing up?
I understand you feeling a little fired up, some people are just more passionate about their dogs than others I guess and it can feel a bit like being told off sometimes but rest assured that EVERYONE on here has your boys interest at heart. If all we had to argue about was how much we loved our dogs, the world would be a wonderful place. Im sure you will be feeling particularly low because some of the feedback you got was probably what you were already feeling. I understand this totally as I work full time and feel like a monster for leaving my boy. I have a very lazy staff and he sleeps all day - thats the difference so I am sure your life is far busier than mine. I too have the larger dog gate from Argos, it costs around £20. I dont know much about your breed to know if it would be large enough but have a look.

My advice would be to keep him indoors, as I do mine - and he is fine and not at all cooped up. Like I say hes a lazy boy though and loves a good sleep. Also, try all you can to wear him out, im sure you will acheive it one day! Hes probably been distracted by something exciting and smelly in the garden.

Lastly, you clearly love him and dont seem at all cruel or selfish. I think we would all agree that in an ideal world we would be at home if we owned dogs but many people are at home all day with their dogs and still dont give enough time or attention. Keep doing what youre doing, keep taking advice and do let us know how you get on. DONT give up, as I bet that once you have this sorted you will thank your lucky stars that you didnt!

Good Luck xxx

Sharon have you tried contacting a behaviourist? I have to say shame on the rescue centre for not providing you with more information and a bit of a warning about the breed. Springers are well known for being manic, even more so if he comes from a working line which sounds very possible. I was just thinking a behaviourist may help because they could offer advise about making your house more dog friendly without turning the whole thing into a kennel and also give yourself and your OH some training tips. If he was mine I would train him for scent work too. His nose was designed for scent work and it occupies body and mind. Hopefully your new obedience classes will help.

If all else fails, invest in a tread mill! ;-) Good luck with him.

P.S. Does he like playing fetch? Never fails to tire out even my dogs that one!

Keeley, what does your dog do on the days you are at home?  Is he constantly active?  I think the suggestion of keeping him indoors while you are out is a good one.

I also think all dogs are different (have no experience of springers though), and require differing amounts of exercise.  I also think that the more you exercise a dog, the more it wants.  Maybe you give Toby ALOT more exercise on the days you are home than you do when working - thereby making him miss it more on those days?

The rescue centre were wrong not to advise you of the amount of exercise that breed would need though - so I wouldn't take him back there whatever you decide - I don't really think though that you should rehome him - seems to me you are willing to learn what he needs. :)

Fiona