It's going to be locked!!!

why is it going to be locked???

It always get locked when bad language is used and it gets a bit heated! All ages read this forum.

It will be locked because people cannot debate without taking things personally ;)

Surely when you mention something that doesnt appeal to everyone then you will get conflicting answers...as a labradoodle breeder all i have been doing is trying to get the good points across..obviously not everyone agrees but surely this is what these types of forums is about..trying to get people to listen to other opinions

I must have missed the bad language, isnt it worthy to discuss different points of views without taking things personally..im sorry but i do feel that people miscall labradoodles for no genuine reason but what i have said doesnt really make bad reading just different points of view

in an ideal world it would be brilliant if eveyone loved the same types of things and agreed with everyone else but life isnt like that and it is going to be obvious that everyone has different opinions on things but certainly i wouldnt take it personally against anyone else because no matter what type of dog you own or breed im sure we all agree on the fact that we love our dogs no matter what breed.. as long as you do thingsa to the best of your ablility and what best for your dog surely that is all that matters

OK people stop this is it just me or is this board turning into a place to argue and slag eachother off, I attend several other boards and there is never any language like this and agression. look if you can't say something nice dont say anything or at least give a valid reason for your disagreement. This used to be a place where people came to learn about dogs and discuss things now I feel like I'm attending a slaging match. Will you all just look at yourselves aren't you all old enough to listen to eachothers opionions or are you all so set in your ways  that you are all always right!!

Excuse me where have I slagged you or anyone else off ? I have simply given you details of known X breeds of this type going through rescue, my personal experience of the lack of good health in mongrels & a very basic genetical look at the gentics of developing a new breed

If that is being rude I must be from another planet If it is slagging you off again i must be from another planet as were i come from it would be called giving information & advice from(my limited degree level knowledge)of genetics

Hi donakell, I have to say that I totally agree with you.. I am a prospective Labradoodle owner, and I have researched for over year. I have come to love everything about the Labradoodle. I was interested in a Labrador originally, but had some bad dealings with a couple of so called breeders, I must admit I also had a dealing with a labradoodle breeder as well .. but I found a lovely lady who really cares about her dogs just like I would hope all breeders of any kind of dog would be.. her dogs have been throughly health tested .. I am not a breeder myself just a member of the public that wants a dog and they are very appealing for all sorts of reasons.. not because they are "mean't to be allergy free" because I know that that is not the case. They are highly intelligent dogs and were originally bred in Australia for a blind lady whos husband had allergies to dogs... she tried a Labrador and was unable to keep it.. so it did have a purpose.. originally.. the SSPCA have comments on this dog.

What about Mongrels?

Mongrels are mixtures of two (or more) breeds and are usually much healthier than purebred dogs. It is still important to make sure that mongrels are bred from animals of similar size (if a large male mates with a small female the pups may be too big to be born naturally). Mongrels are usually brilliant companions and our animal welfare centres always have mongrels looking for new homes.

LABRADOODLE (Yes this is a real breed!)

- Originally bred in Australia in the 1970s from a Labrador Retreiver and a Standard Poodle, the Labradoodle is now recognised as a separate breed (rather than a mongrel).

- The first Labadoodle to be bred with another Labradoodle was called a double Doodle.

- It was first bred because a partially sighted woman needed a guide dog that wouldnt cause an allergic reaction in her husband! Labradoodles dont shed much hair so are an alternative for people with allergies.

It is good that an organisation such as the SSPCA has done a small write up about doodles...no bad press here    It is informative and isnt trying to put Labradoodles into the "designer dog" catagory like most other articles you see on Doodles.

I really think that people should agree to disagree, but with an open mind.  There are so many breeds that I think are lovely and so many that I don't, I wouldn't put any down.. they are all animals and I hope that people would love their dogs whatever the breed.

I do really think that in a few years time they will be recognised by the kennel club in this country just as they are in Australia and America. I wish all genuine Labradoodle breeders the best of luck and hope that they do succeed in their efforts. Just as I do all breeds of dogs.

Debr  Quote: LABRADOODLE (Yes this is a real breed!)

Nope, sorry, it is only a real breed in the UK if it is recognised by the Kennel Club. The Labradoodle is not recognised

Melody ..labradoodles arent recognised  here yet but are in other countries..so will you change your tune when they are??? its just this country that doesnt recognise them but im afraid this kennel club is always behind the rest of the world

I have no tune to change. I stated fact, nothing more. Whether the UK KC is behind the times or not is neither here nor there, it is a simple statement of fact...in the UK, the Labradoodle is not recognised as a breed. Therefore, for anyone to state otherwise is not true

Sorry melody more to dog breeding than our kennel club

Hi Melody
I have only quoted what the SSPCA have written.. even my vet recognises them.. I have spoken to them alot about it.

Vets rarely know very much about particular breeds, let alone cross breeds :) This has been proven time and time again on here and on various other dog forums. Vets are like a GP and are NOT generally specialists in one particluar type of animal

unless you breed a lab with bad hips and eyes to a poodle with bad hips as well...just out of interest what type of dogs do you breed???? my lab has a zero zero hip score which i breed the other 4-3 and my poodle 2-9  have you a dog which is hip scored as good as 0-0

Actually I have had a 0-0=0 stud dog & he was the resullts of years of researched breeding & testing not just for hips but the around dog & he was a GSD. I only have a rescue GSD & cavaliers that i dod not intend to breed from  at present

My dogs hips were so well formed his plates are now used in the veterinary courses at the universities (in the UK & Germany)that do Vet degrees & are also used to train new panellists for BVA scoring. They ae also in the SV archives as examples of perfect hip formation

HD is a polygenetic & also subject to external factors so parents with excellent hips can produce dysplasic offspring, however from the scores of my dogs offspring he & his offspring were/are improvers for HD

BTW my dog was also a good example of the breed

I think that the development of a new breed as opposed to breeding X breeds by design today would mean the unplalable decisions would not be made on the puppies who did not meet the breeding requirements for breeding a type of dog, so dogs that are not suitable for breeding from thet would have been "disposed"of year ago will now be sold & possiblity bred from by their new owners.

These dogs will never be a breed if they are bred by putting a male of one breed to a female of another they are & always will be a X breed

BTW is a LD a male lab x female SP or vica versa ? as a SP male to a female Lab technically(if named scienfically)woul be a Standaretreiver not quite as nice sounding as a LD In science the male always comes before the female when naming.

Popular in Obedience is the Bordereiver(Border collie x Golden(not Goldie as that is the name of a blue Peter dog)) Although Border Collie x Standard Poodles have been bred as yet these X's are not seen as commercial & quite why anyone would want to X two breeds that again both have eye conditions  is beyond me

I'm not anti mongrels if I was I would not have owned one for 11 years, but as I have said there are already over 200 breeds already why do we need more ?

Debr, why did you rule out a standard poodle?  It is a breed that seems to me to fit all the attributes that are claimed for Labradoodles.

I would assume that the size would rule it out ;)

A Standard Poodle could be anything from 15 ins upwards.   A Labradoodle could be anything from.....................15 ins upwards ;)

Hi Isabel.. now I'll get blasted for this one LOL... I don't really like the look of some poodles.. and I know that their coats are quite difficult to look after.. I have seen a few labradoodles and I know that some of their coats aren't straight forward but they are a lot easier that the poodle.  I also like the temprement of the Labrador. so I would like something that was the best of both worlds..  I know that they train quite easily.. and I also know that they need training.. (the same as most dogs) I certainly wasn't looking for the 'designer' aspect or originality.. I have children and I know that both breeds aren't that bad with them..
I have to say.. that I personally always wanted an Alaskan Malamute.. but I know that the up keep of them is more than I could offer.. I love them.. but I know that I'm not suitable for one..  and I like to think that its my suitablility to a dog not so much theirs for me.. sorry rambling now... LOL... have lost the track here!!

Debr have you ever seen a poodle when not in one of the show clips? 

If you didn't shave their faces or cut their hair that way they would look like, the picture I saw of the Labradoodle in the Newspaper article. 

I know as there is one near me whose owner prefers it with a shaggy face and whiskers. 

No one says they need to be trimmed that way. 

The Spanish Water Dogs are either clipped off or left with a natural coat and then clipped off again when it gets too long.

Yes I have, but then I'm not going for the curly coat in a Labradoodle.. I'm going for the more scuffy/wavy one.. I just like them. Why do people like anything? 

Brainless irish water spaniels faces dont grow hairl ike poodles or theirr tails they have been bed this way

Good posting debr
What you have said is so true a lot of people dont like the upkeep of poodles and like i said in an earlier posting even curly coated labradoodles dont have the same type of coat as a poodle and not so much upkeep.. glad that someone else likes labradoodles too..they are far under estimated and so are their breeders im afraid.. hopefully you havent been led this misleading facts about size and coat type which seems to be the case for others

Hi Donakell, Thank you.. I'm not misled by size, I think that anyone with half a brain would know that a standard poodle and a lab wouldn't be the size of a yorkie..LOL..  I don't understand why people think they would be small do you? LOL..

No debr i dont know at all just the usual misconception about labradoodles..they are small and dont cast..sterotyping im afraid

So what will you do if your puppy grows up to look just like a standard poodle as some of them do?  And what if it inherits nothing of the Labrador character?  Aren't you better at least getting something that isn't a pig in a poke?

I will love my puppy/dog whatever.. no-one can really predict what their dog will turn into..Personality wise.. just hope that with good training of the owner and a loving family it will inherit the trait you would like it too and be a good family pet.. I'm not interested in breeding it on just what it will mean to my family.

Isabel that part of the appeal not everyone wants a dog like everyone elses.. labradoodles are all different but i can hand on heart say never heard of any with any problems ...so far i may hasten to add..doesnt mean that they wont

I'd be amazed if there aren't any with problems, poodles are intelligent but strong willed so some people are bound to have trouble training this cross breed at times.
Why wouldn't the people who don't want to have the same as everyone else take themselves of to the dogs home and give a chance to a cross breed there?  Often the character is already apparent in a youngster so no more a lottery that these crosses.

Just wondered what traits have you found in the Labradoodles you have met (assuming you have met a good cross section of the differing types) that are unique to this cross and can't be found in other breeds or even in the Parent breeds?

have you looked at the other breeds which have similar traits to these crosses like the Curly Coated Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Lagotta Romagnola and Spanish Water Dog, and what ruled these breeds out of your consideration?

debr, I'm afraid you're technically wrong when you say:

>Mongrels are mixtures of two (or more) breeds

Crossbreeds are a mixture of two pure breeds - mongrels have more than two breeds in their first generation ancestry.
:)

here we go again.what is it with curton people on here as of recent! cant you just agree to differ!and dont give me that about it not being a fluffy site.coz it doesnt need to be fluffy!every1 just needs to chill! so come on every1 deap breaths! :d

donakell

These dogs are not a breed the simple breeding of one breed to another doesn't make a breed & this is not how breeds develop it can be how they start but they are not instantly a breed

It is a matter of known genetics that the first X do not breed true there are different coat types, shapes etc in this generation. Let's break down the characteristics into two genes for simpicity

LL=lab
PP =poodle

F1 Generation=LP only

F1 to F1=F2 generation=LL PP LP

F1 to F2 generation F3(a)= LL LP PP

F2 to F2 generation F3(b)= LL PP LP

so out of three puppies only one would be a lab x poodle genetically the others could be lab or poodle in both F2 & F3 generations

this is only theoretical as in reality the genetical make up is much more complex & a guess at the number of genes that make up a dog is probably around 100,000 !! & why nowadays developing a new breed & doing so in a way that is genetically sound is a minefield

So if breeders of these designer crosses are serious why not give them a generic name rather than a "cutsy"to joe public oodle one  ?If a  a maltipoo a Paltese ? or a Pugalier a cavalig  would they be as cutsy ?

I'm not particularly slagging them off I just don't understand what they are for.  They don't seem to fulfill any function that established breeds that breed true cover already.  The established breeds have the benefit of well understood pedigrees, doyens of the breeds will understand which lines compliment each other, any health issues will also be appreciated with an understanding of how to tackle and hopefully minimise them none of this knowledge will be available in thiscross breed so the purchaser buys a pig in a poke in not only appearance terms.

Isabel what does any breed fulfil.. pekes.. bulldogs..what are they for..doesnt make them wrong

Both these dogs served functions, both rather outdated now, but they were bred for a specific purpose.

As for Labradoodles there are several breeds with the traits that this mix is trying to create, and most of them are rare or endangered, so what is the point. 

If this is the kind of dog these people like why don't they get involved with the Curly Coats, Irish Water Spaniel, Spanish Water Dog or Lagotta, there is every size and type variance for the persons preference????

TRying to create a breed when there is no need and in fact adding to the number of crossbreeds already badly in need of homes is pointless.  Until these dogs reach the stage of breeding true, which will take many generations (and the dogs in between will be as varied as any mongrel) then anyone buying one won't really know what they are getting, and would be better off with a mongrel or cross from the dogs home or one of the plentiful already recognised breeds that breed true to type and whose characteristics are pretty predictable.

Brainless for all those dogs you said, if people think labradoodles are over priced have you looked into those breed prices and also the gene pool is so small for all those breeds it is a specialist thing trying to breed them.. i know because i really liked the bleu de gasgoine which is really rare in this country and trying to breed and show them properly you would have had to inbreed to a certain extent which was something i wasnt willing to do

This is one of my main points against creating new breeds.  There are already breeds in existence whose gene base needs widening, so they need new enthusiastic breeders.  The gene pool can be widened more new lines imported and progress made, rather than loose what there is already and instead trying to create something similar from scratch, that is what I find incomprenhensible :D

If you bred labradoodles you would know that there is such a demand for them that people can wait for over a year for their puppy and when you have someone willing to wait so long , chances are they are not going to end up in rescue centres.. but no matter what breed you have its just human nature that some people are cruel and horrible to thier animals whether labradoodle or pedigree dog.. lets face it humans can be cruel to thier own children so dogs have no chance compared to that

Whilst all this is commendable, it still doesn't answer my original question which is .................what is it about poodles that is so desirable that they need to be crossed with all sorts of different and diverse breeds to improve on them (apart from the obvious - to include poo or oodle in the name)?

because their coat doesn't shed thats why people cross them

They are as likely to shed as not, in donakall's own words 'Labradoodles coats do cast' and there are plenty of breeds already in existence whose coats do not shed

FYI :)

SOFT COATED WHEATEN TERRIER
BEDLINGTON TERRIER
POODLE
FOX TERRIER (WIRE)
YORKSHIRE TERRIER
PORTUGUESE WATER DOG
BICHON FRISE
MALTESE
AFGHAN HOUND
KERRY BLUE TERRIER
TIBETAN TERRIER
SCHNAUZERS
SPANISH WATER DOGS

(all recognised breeds that don't shed)

As a dog groomer melody all of these dogs you have listed do have their own breed faults like everything else ..all labradoodle breeders in the past have tried to do is make something better to please a certain trait...most breeds do start somewhere and for instance the water spaniel what benifit did they have to cross it with a poodle?? most of the breeds listed are terriers which nature wise arent always the best ok they dont cast all the time but i must admit id rather have a good natured dog rather than a bit nasty

I simply listed the breeds that do not shed ...I said nor implied anything else about the breeds. ALL breeds have faults and problems, taking two breeds and crossing them means that you run the risk of doubling the problems

No breed is completely free of *nastiness* as you call it. Nature versus Nurture and all that :)

melody.. mixing two breeds doesnt doubly lead to problems..taking two breeds with faults doestn lead to pups with fault unless you breed from unsound stock...what is the actual problem...yes labs are bad for eyes and hips..poodles can be bad for SA but if you breed 2 labs together with any of these faults you get pups with the same faults surely????it doesnt got to say you breed a poodle and a lab and you get pups with all these faults.. unless you breed a lab with bad hips and eyes to a poodle with bad hips as well...just out of interest what type of dogs do you breed???? my lab has a zero zero hip score which i breed the other 4-3 and my poodle 2-9  have you a dog which is hip scored as good as 0-0

Did you read my post ? I did not say that you would ...I said that you run the risk.

With two different breeds with two different sets of problems, you run the risk (which was my phrase in my previous post) of doubling the problems

I don't breed anything apart from humans :) I have Alaskan Malamutes