Sorrry Harley, I diddn't want that to be hurtful, I am old enough to have been through this too.
Still I truly believe it is not for a legislative body to approve the time of when my loved dies.
There can be and is dignity in dying.

Karen

(((((hugs))))) To you Rho.....
Just for reliving those events, each so hard.

Karen.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Sorrry Harley, I diddn't want that to be hurtful, I am old enough to have been through this too.

No offence taken Karen :-) I was just saying how I felt about it :-)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">There can be and is dignity in dying.<br />  I so agree with that but my point was that, for some, there is no dignity in living a life they wish to end and their dignity is restored through dying. I truly believe that every single case is different and for some leaving this world at a point they choose is the right decision for them and for others that wouldn't be the right decision but in our case an early release would have been more merciful.

I would love to be more eloquent  ;)  I do believe in mercy and if it was my loved one I think there is every chance I would be the one to 'do the deed' if push came to shove.

These words now in the ether may come and get me thats fine too, but legislation, I will always say no, and others will always say yes.

Karen

I believe that it's an individual's ultimate Human Right to have control over their own death.

I think its within our power but I dont think it is our right. 

Hear, hear JG!

> I think its within our power but I dont think it is our right

I agree, Karen, and I share a lot of your sentiments.
I don't think suicide should ever have been a crime but I do not think the law should condone it.
Regarding a few other posts and directions we seem to have gone in I think we should remember that this man is not terminally ill, he is disabled, and I think a change in the law can only be damaging to people who are having to come to terms with the difficulties that may present.

I have to draw on what I know, having spent a lot of time working in rehab, neuro and other slow and long term cases from various disabilities, and I do feel that it is unfair to have a law making it okay it does seem that it devalues a lot of what I know and have known.

Karen  :)

Of course it is people's right to whether they want to live or die. If you are in hospital you can sign to say no resuscitation so what is the difference. This man is incapable of staying alive without help so it is right if he chooses that way at the moment he would have to endure a long and painful death, is that right ? I think there is a huge difference between being depressed because an illness or living in a nightmare where you are not able to function as a human being and the utter turmoil a person has looking at the world carry on whilst you were in a prisoner inside your own body.

I can see however how as a healthcare professional how difficult it must be to look at this without having a huge conflict in what is going against the principles of helping people to keep them alive.

Death is still the great taboo, as if it's something to be avoided if at all possible. Many people, especially those nearing the end of their span, lose their fear of death but the fear of the manner of dying often remains. Euthanasia literally means 'good death' and is something we bless our beloved pets with to end unavoidable suffering. What a shame we still consider human suffering to be 'good for the soul'.

I think this is where religion also comes into play on this subject.

I do not believe in god or the after life but I do believe in people's rights to a dignified end to their life what ever they decide is the way to go.

> where you are not able to function as a human being

He is functioning as a human being. 

> What a shame we still consider human suffering to be 'good for the soul'.

I think the palliative care we now have is very far removed from any such notion. 

> He is functioning as a human being

True - but lacking compassion IMO:( Would you apply the same logic to someone wanting advice about their paralysed dog ??

>He is functioning as a human being. 

He's existing, not living.

Daisy, I would never compare humans with a dog.
I don't think anyone lacks compassion for him, he is obviously a very unhappy man but, as others find a worthwhile life despite a severe disability it is not simply that and perhaps the attitudes of society just might have something to do with it all. 

Okay, just back from walking the dogs.
Whilst out I was thinking of a person I knew who died earlier this year as a good case in point.

He had a progressive neurological illness, he was helped to manage this over the years and I watched him go from an articulate able person to the worst possible degree of helplessness.
At so many points he became ill with problems that left untreated could have killed him or allowed him to die, he and his family wanted treatment everytime.

Had the law been any different pressure would have been on him and possibly them, it would have to be an option put to them, to end his life.
Nobody will ever tell me that he should have had to feel it was an option.

MY opinion wont change, it is not driven by religion.
JG, I agree talking about death is uncomfortable for some people but it is inevitable and a fact it will occur, the last thing we need to do is feel the need or the pressure from society   to organise that for ourselves.

> He's existing, not living.

I think I better bow out of this.  As someone whose mother had a similar disability but who continued to be a valued member of the family and I hope never felt anything less, I just find this offensive now.

(((((stooge)))))))

Come on, you know there is NO malice meant in that comment, I truly believe its all the more reason to stick with it ;)

He is not functioning as a human being as he would starve to death in his own faeces and urine left on his own being aware of what was happening to him.

That is not how a living functioning human being lives.

JG is far more intelligent than that.
However some comments from others do need more thought.  :(

Sorry was that aimed at me ?

I have an opinion and find people differing opinions just as upsetting because of my belief to a persons right to die.

I do not lack intelligence so if you feel I do them I find that extremely offensive. My father lived a week after a triple bypass that didn't work and the pain and suffering he went through was horrific . He died in alot of pain and IMHO was unnecessary as his life was worth far more than the end he had to suffer. He felt the same but was unable to control the end of his life.

> However some comments from others do need more thought

I would disagree. IMO all the contributors to this thread have spoken what they truely believe. Of course, people disagree, but that is why this is such an emotive subject. I would imagine most people here, particularly those of us who are older than others, have experienced the distress in seeing our loved ones suffering. This is what forms our honest and deeply felt opinions.

JG is more intelligent than to mean to cause offense to anyone by a comment is what I meant.

And There are many comments on the entire board and thread, some of mine included that could do with a little more thought.
If you feel affronted that really is not my problem.
We all have differing opinions which is a good thing. We also all have and have had different experiences.

>I would imagine most people here, particularly those of us who are older than others, have experienced the distress in seeing our loved ones suffering. This is what forms our honest and deeply felt opinions.

Nail on head.

What I would choose to do with my own life (and I don't know what that will be until the time comes) is my business and nobody else's. I fully endorse other people's choices even though I might disagree with them. I've watched loved ones suffering in a way I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. To whose benefit was it? Certainly not theirs.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I think I better bow out of this.  As someone whose mother had a similar disability but who continued to be a valued member of the family and I hope never felt anything less, I just find this offensive now

Please don't bow out of the discussion. You and I are on opposite sides of the fence on this one and we have both been in a position of having a loved one with a disability and been involved in their care. Maybe we see things in different ways because our loved ones coped with the situation in different ways. When Steve was first diagnosed with his condition he just wouldn't accept that it would have a terminal end and he continued to believe that until the time his debilitation prevented him from living a life that he was comfortable with and could come to terms with. He was such a positive person and refused to let things get him down at all until that point when his quality of life was such that he just did not want to live as he was doing so at the time. In fact we as a family only fully accepted that he was going to lose his fight when he himself told us that he "Just couldn't do this anymore".

For him to have said that at all meant that he had really reached his own personal limit and it wasn't a decision he had come to easily. He had learned to live with so many difficulties during the eight years but eventually reached a point where he decided that he just couldn't cope with it all anymore. He wasn't afraid to die but he was afraid of having to live a life that was unendurable in his eyes.

For your mum and your family it was obviously a different situation and you all dealt with it as you did - both our loved ones were valued members of our respective families and always will be :-)

I think that this is the key, how we have witnessed others pass, those of us who have seen our loved ones even though incapacitated live fulfilling lives still........ and those who have watched suffering.

Very sorry that your father went that way LJS, I guess I've been lucky with my father and three grandparents when organs and muscles failed and they would have been suffering they were on strong pain medication, yes it made them sleep a lot, but they had moments of clarity and eventually towards the end just drifted off, up until that time we enjoyed them still being here with us no matter what the the disability.

Sorry LJS, I know your upset (I don't want to cause more pain ) but your two statement here fit in perfectly with what I'd like to express here.

He is not functioning as a human being as he would starve to death in his own faeces and urine left on his own being aware of what was happening to him.

That is not how a living functioning human being lives.

So many medical and mental problems also cover the above........... strokes, Alzheimer's, MS, Parkinson's, Schizophrenia, drug abuse, broken backs, Arthritis, from the mild to the serious, oh gosh I could go on forever we all know there are 100's and 100's of things which can leave us incapable of movement and caring for ourselves.......... we are not like wild animals we have evolved, we care for our ill and old and we have the medical treatment and the drugs to help give people life and hopefully pain free deaths where they would have had terrible deaths if left alone.

If an assisted suicide legislation came about, I'm really afraid the human race would run with it, how long would it be before the elderly in homes needing full time care are looked upon as 'none functioning human beings' all those illnesses and disabilities needing full time care, how long before it progressed to not just needed the ok from the person concerned, but guardians/relatives signing the forms, how long before that then progresses to disabled children etc where the parent thinks they would be better off passing over, it is opening up doors we shouldn't open, the human race is good at turning on things which are different and not normal/perfect, we know that we are like that.

We open up even a small door for the good of some who no longer wish to be here, and believe me watch humanity fall.

You might think I'm over dramatising, but 100 years from now the world may not be a pretty sight..............

To my way of thinking it's about respect for each individual's freedom of choice.

o my way of thinking it's about respect for each individual's freedom of choice.

You can have plenty of freedom of choice as long as you choose to do what everyone else wants for you :p

That's certainly the current system; you can do what you want as long as we agree with you!

Harley

I so agree with your sentiments, and applaud your courage in telling us such personal things.

Having nursed a man who was paralysed for life during "life saving" surgery, I know exactly where you are coming from.  You are one brave lady.

If the legislation was there to allow those who wished to to opt out but only after close scrutiny by a medical team to ensure no one was being " bumped off" before they were ready and nursing homes cleared of the severely disabled who were not contributing financially to their care and are therefore placing a burden on the NHS.

There are patients with no next of kin to help with decisions, parents out living their children, children have emigrated and lost touch or not realised how bad things are back home as it is easy to put on a bright face for a few minute phone call.

There is never going to be a plan that fits all but there should be one that can be tweaked to suit each individual that wishes to take that route when they no longer wish to struggle with a debilitating illness any longer and don't want the burden of a decision placed on the shoulders of those left behind.

This discussion could go on for ever with everyone having a valid reason for the comments based on life experience, some having more than others.

It would go on forever, as I stated earlier if push came to shove I know what I would dofor me or mine.
I also know that I would never want to see a law that gave me a legal right or choice.

I quite agree with you what also amazes me is that an adult that is able to decide that he wants to die isn't allowed to but babies can be aborted at a viable age not quite sure what that implies!!

Looks as though the man concerned has his wish as he has died this morning, not sure how yet, but at least without court intervention. Be interesting to hear what he has died of or whether with help? RIP it is now over.............

Released at last.

I hate to say this but feel he is in a better place now. I wonder if the stress and strain he had been under and the result of the judgement may have been too much for him as hope people close to him didn't have their hand forced to do something and will now have to go through a terrible time themselves because of the current law.

Very sad

Edited to say his daughter has said he died peacefully at home and Wiltshire police will not be investigating his death

RIP, I know that the discussion on this has been quite painful for some ( and I admire their honesty) it has made my husband and I talk about difficult choices and we are now aware of each others wishes.

Let's hope that your wishes are respected, whatever they are.

I know we don't all agree on this assisted suicide legislation but doesn't it feel so much better to know he died of natural causes rather than a suicide? It just feels right for me, I have a feeling of peace which I wouldn't have had if he had been given a lethal dose.

I guess many of us will never agree, maybe there is no right or wrong to this, but I feel a great weight lifted that he went this way.

>doesn't it feel so much better to know he died of natural causes rather than a suicide?

Do we know that nobody took pity on him and slipped him something?

The report says of natural causes and no action will be taken, with all the publicity I think a duty would be taken to make sure that is the truth, too many people know about it not to. IMO it couldn't be swept under the carpet. I would at a guess think he had another stroke or heart failure, I'm sure it will all come out sooner rather than later.

They just had a professor on who knew him and has said she would suspect the torment and stress he had been under would be a probable factor. Just been looking at his twitter account very sad reading how he felt :-(

>They just had a professor on who knew him and has said she would suspect the torment and stress he had been under would be a probable factor.

Yes, torture does kill people. :-( The poor, poor man, and his family, suffering so terribly.

The report says it's natural causes, sadly the stress of last week I bet helped him on his way.  I will not forget the interview last week felt so much for him.

I know personally for me I would not want to live that life nor put any of my family through it either.  To me it is not a true life, I would hate not to be able to communicate fully to people but as I say this is my personal feeling.

RIP Tony and thinking of his family.

It would seem that he, his wife and family have been given the peace they hoped for, he died today. Wishing all involved comfort and well earned rest.

Get locked in a coffin and expect your family to open it from time to time for water etc ....imagine your total PANIC that one day they may just walk off and leave you there..... alone, to die slowly.
Thats what I imagine that poor man must feel.

If he doesnt want to live with this horror every day of his life..let him go. That's what Id wish for it it were me.

May he now rest in peace - and may his family feel solace in the fact that he is now released from his earthly pain.

I understand he had been refusing food since last week. That, accompanied by his other distressing ailments obviously proved too much for his poor body. At last he has found peace, but I imagine his last few days haven't been without pain, he contacted pneumonia - that was cruel. He was a brave and intelligent man and shouldn't have been made to resort to this action.