And the best Group breeds in the world they are too, in my humble opinion. LOL

As someone said there are 45 entries from Not Seperately classified breeds, so there may well be GSD among them.

That would be nice, top the day off that would, just to see some thoroughbreds like. Not the droopy eared, dodgy eyed, limping, toothless, hairless, nutless, brainless types I have had. LOL

I don't know what day you're going to Builth Wells on, but I hope Team Barbelka have a successful/fun day.

Just the one going in the morning, she has lost most of her coat so bathed her today so that it looks fresh at least. 

Pst haven't told hubby that thought we are first in the ring for breed, but then not in the stakes until 3pm, oops.

Hopefully she will have more coat for Midland counties.

> Just the one going in the morning, she has lost most of her coat so bathed her today so that it looks fresh at least.

Bath night for you too then is it, got too smell nice for the judge.

> Pst haven't told hubby that thought we are first in the ring for breed, but then not in the stakes until 3pm, oops.

Looks like he's going to be doin some puffin then, You'd better start rollin em for him tonight.

Good luck you.

x

Two tins of 60 in the car all ready.

I`ll be at Midland Counties on the 31st, there was 1 GSD entered last year in NSC ...... come and say hi if your around the NSC ring you wont be able to miss me....I`ll be the one dragging a giant dish mop around :)

> dragging a giant dish mop around

And what a lovely dish mop he is ;-)  Good luck with the gorgeous Tangle, shame we aren't on the same day otherwise we could of had a proper catch up..

> Two tins of 60 in the car all ready.

I bet he's puffed one tin before you even get there. ;)

Welcome home you.....

Well did you have a good day Team Barbelka? Any rossettes on your shirt?

I hope you didn't garrotte anyone with the ring rope, or mow anyone down with your poor dogs today, and I wasn't there to see it. :)

Was it uneventful or did I miss any drama. Tell me a GSD won something though...

I've booked to stay in Stafford Sat 30/10/10, so I'll be at the show and be able to find the best parking space available, so hopefully there will be no parking drama for me, if you want me to save you and your hubby a space, just ask.

Poor entry, numbers wise, (economics, location and weekday), but coatless young Inka was Reserve Best bitch.

Remind me to keep away from 'Beesting Cider' on an empty stomach.

Was supposed to have the champion stakes class at 3pm, but as we were all done and dusted in breed by Midday and I was a little squiffy ;) we got straight off home.

> but coatless young Inka was Reserve Best bitch.
>

I think with a coat then you could go one better and grab best bitch, here is hoping, I'll have a quite word with the gentleman judging for you, see if I can't pursuade him a little. :)

Have to grow coat in 3 weeks?  Well she will be better anyway.  Two bites of teh cherry as have ehr mtoehr entered in same class (they can't go in any other in the breed).

Hey at Stafford we have a lady judge ;)

yeah ive got everything except the dog lol toys, bed, bowl got it all

> yeah ive got everything except the dog lol toys, bed, bowl got it all

Gosh, how can you wait? I wouldn't be able, you must have a lot of patience, or the dog is obviously worth the wait.
That's my trouble I have no patience, whenever I have decided to have a dog, I always have to have it straight away once my mind is made up, that's another reason why I usually rehome.

I hope your dog is everything you expect, and you enjoy each other, good luck.

> Hey at Stafford we have a lady judge ;-)

Ooh there you go, my imagination is just charging up, ready for ring side. LOL

I thought I read though on the Stafford Show info, that I printed off that there was a man judging the Elk Hounds. I must have read it wrong.

I have been thinking.....and that's dangerous for me. lol

I'm still not convinced that your average puppy buyer does any were near the research that the lovely peeps on this forum do. CDs is a website for dog enthusiasts after all.

I think if I had asked this question on an alternative forum (non dog specific) but not biased towards dog mad peeps, then the result would have been different.

What is the percentage of dog owners in the country? and what percentage of said owners have a dog as a lap dog rather than for breeding, showing, working.
Therefore I would suggest these folk are more likely to select their dog by less specific means, like researching breed clubs etc, but more simply choose the dog because they have allways fancied the look of a certain breed ie. go with their heart. I would suggest the most research they would do is to find the nearest breeder of their chosen breed that has puppies for sale and arrange a visit.

Just my thoughts :)

I got my breed before I ever stepped foot onto this website.
I was never told to go to the breed club when I first started looking. I just googled the breeds and went from there. Normal local rescue's as I thought about taking one on (never had either breed I was looking at in) gave me details of the 2 different breed clubs and its from there and after to speaking to the lady who ran and still does breed rescue that it gave me food for thought(made me seriously think is this the breed for me, and it is) and went more into the breed club pages.. The rest is history....:-D

So you always wanted the Bernese or were you looking at allsorts and found the Bernese suited you? But before jumping in, you still researched though.
If there wasn't google around though, like there wasn't when I first bought my dog, I suppose you would have started with books.
See I just think your smart, smarter than your average bear..

We have a better entry (though down on previous years as it is in a lot of breeds) of 36, being a weekend.  The judge is Jean Blandford, the Hound Group judge is Andrew Brace.

As it is the final day you should enjoy seeing the stakes and finals and the Groups and Best In show.

As for lack of research your probably right there are way too many folks who do little to none which is why puppy farming, back yard and commercial breeders do so well.

Until potential owners demand higher standards then they will continue to make a killing (sometimes literally) by exploiting dogs and people.

> or were you looking at allsorts and found the Bernese suited you

I wanted a dog and didn't know what I wanted or what suited me and reading an all breeds book and working out the traits I wanted in a dog I got down to 2 breeds. It was there speaking to breed rescue who gave me a huge insight and food for thought. I continued on with looking at both breeds but couldn't deny what I really wanted was the Bernese and did it suit me better than a Samoyed..Someone said to me if you we allowed one breed would you still want the other, sealed the deal for me as wanted a Bernese more than anything..

> smarter than your average bear..

Hehe... You're more than welcome to come stroke my bears at any show :-)

> As for lack of research your probably right there are way too many folks who do little to none which is why puppy farming, back yard and commercial breeders do so well.
>

This is very topical at the moment, so I shall look at the postings on the other pages regarding the puppy farms and have a good read.

Sometimes I get the feeling that a few breeders are a little judgemental of potential buyers though, and vet them closely, and if they don't fit the bill, they are turned away, but I understand this is because the breeder only wants the best for their pups. But this could be a scenario were that said buyer has no other choice than to find their particular breed elsewhere, sometimes from a very poor source.

That said, like any other industry at the moment, I think 'pile em high sell em cheap' has arrived with the dog market, and is probably here to stay unfortunately. As shopping around for the best deal is the norm these days, and unless the public are made aware that they will be sold possibly 'dodgy pups'
from these sources, then they see no harm in doing so and will continue.

Just my thoughts.

> and if they don't fit the bill, they are turned away

Some people though don't do enough research and want a breed which may not be suited to them as people or their lifestyle, which is why a lot of people are turned down. If I didn't trust or like the breeder then i'd not want one of their pups regardless of how lovely they were. It does work both ways and I think education is the key point here.
This is why that programme PDE whilst could of been good and was a great source to point out how to find a good breeder and what to look for it did the wrong thing :-(

I also think vets play a huge part along with the media, they should be advising how to go about finding a good breeder. I know Marc Abraham is trying his best with regards puppy farmers and is bringing in the celebs, but its still not making headline news and we need a few more panaroma type programmes with unbiased decent well balanced education for the general public on how to go about purchasing a puppy if not through a rescue..

Trouble is though not everyone that wants a dog should have one.

That is why rescue shelters are full, because when the home falls apart only the decent breeders step in, so of course it is in such a breeders own self interest to minimise the chances of a bad homing.

This is why I feel that not only should the breeder be responsible for the dogs they breed, but the owners that decide to dispose of them should feel the pinch in their pockets too.

> Trouble is though not everyone that wants a dog should have one.

And not everyone has the dog that they should have.  I have seen so many dogs that are just not suited to the home they are in, not to say that the person shouldn't have a dog just not the one they have.  A prime example of this was an elderly and quite frail woman at one of the training classes I went to who had a large collie that she couldn't hold.  the dog was dog aggressive and she had no control so the dog didn't get walked.

She cared for the dog but it was a dog that would have been better suited where it could channel its energy and a smaller dog that didn't need much exercise would have suited her so much better.

> but the owners that decide to dispose of them should feel the pinch in their pockets too.

What do you mean pay for them to be rehomed, at a dog shelter? not quite sure what you mean there.
Because if they had to pay for someone to take the pup off them, thay may just rid of the pup, in a horrible way.

Yep it should cost them, and if they get rid of it in a horrible legal way (PTS) then at least they may have to live with that, and if not legally then they should be prosecuted, but it would ease the rescue situation, as it is too easy to dump responsibilities onto others shoulders.

> Yep it should cost them

Problem is with this Brainless from what I can see is that there are far too many dogs being dumped at the road side or thrown into rivers etc as examples as it stands now, that there would be no way to police this. Compulsary microchipping at breeder stage may help to ease some burden, if the owners don't change into their name, at least then they, the breeder can take on the dog/rehome it.

Ho hum.. There is not ever going to be a fool proof way and there will always be a need for rescue.. But its the supply and demand that needs to stop... Puppy owners should expect the best and until they all/mostly do then we are on an uphill battle

> A prime example of this was an elderly and quite frail woman at one of the training classes I went to who had a large collie that she couldn't hold. 

But looking at the other side of the coin.  :-)

I too, am an old lady.  Well almost anyway.  I won't say I'm frail, that wouldn't be true.  But I've got rubbish hands, with no strength  in them after loads of operations.

I've got small, easy to handle lap dogs.  But I've also got 3 collies.  My two Beardie girls are old ladies now, so very easy to walk.  But my Border Collie is only 5 and in his prime.  I don't need to be strong to control him.  He has got to be the easiest Border Collie that I have ever trained.  I have to admit that I am so proud when people compliment me on his training.

But if I'm honest, it really isn't my skills that produced the most gorgeous temperament with such a biddable nature, boy.  It's just in him.  I researched temperament before all else, and wanted a line that had been worked.  Whether trials, agility, obedience, anything as long as it was a line with brains.  He is a goodun! 

> But looking at the other side of the coin.  :-)
>
> I too, am an old lady.  Well almost anyway.  I won't say I'm frail, that wouldn't be true.  But I've got rubbish hands, with no strength  in them after loads of operations.
>
> But if I'm honest, it really isn't my skills that produced the most gorgeous temperament with such a biddable nature, boy.  It's just in him.  I researched temperament before all else, and wanted a line that had been worked.  Whether trials, agility, obedience, anything as long as it was a line with brains.  He is a goodun!

I wouldn't say that your situation is the other side of the coin because your skills must have played a part, you researched temprament etc so didn't go into it blind. 

This lady had a large dog that was aggressive to other dogs, when he lunged she let go the lead as she couldn't hold him and he flew at other dogs and even nipped people.  This was a dog not suited to living with a frail person and only having a garden to run about in.  You have clearly invested time and energy in your dog, don't underplay your intervention with your boy. Well done, he sounds like a huge credit to you.

So if they could ban Puppy farms and such like puppy selling outlets, there would be far less pressure on the rescue centres, because these outlets sell puppies to people that otherwise wouldn't be given a dog by a reputable breeder in the first place. And then the reputable breeder could sell puppies at a more respectable, deserved price, so to put some unsatifactory buyers off.

I get it. Eventually.lol

I always found 1 to 1 tuition at school a bonus. lol. Sorry for mithering you though with this.

Thanks Brainless.

> Compulsary microchipping at breeder stage may help to ease some burden, if the owners don't change into their name, at least then they, the breeder can take on the dog/rehome it.
>

Totally agree with you with microchipping at breeder stage (accountability) and fantastic that some take their dogs back should they need rehoming but the purchaser must take on responsibilty of ownership and can't expect that for what ever reason the breeder will step in whenever things go wrong. Having learnt the hard way, if I ever had to let our two go I would choose to have them PTS rather than back to their breeder.

> and fantastic that some take their dogs back should they need rehoming but the purchaser must take on responsibilty of ownership and can't expect that for what ever reason the breeder will step in whenever things go wrong.

No, I disagree on that one, I think the new owner leaving the breeder with the knowledge that they can happily return the dog back should the unthinkable happen, is better than them taking it to a rescue or similar place, and I would of thought the breeder would prefer then to try and find a suitable rehome for the dog themselves.

Just my thought.

Dukedog.

I agree and worded it badly. If the unthinkable happens it is wonderful that good breeders will take their dog back but new owners can't buy a puppy thinking that if things don't work out that they can just take it back. It is a responsibility without some casual opt-out.

Hey Lacy,

I know what you mean, you think the buyer might think the breeder is offering them a receipt like, so that if the owner had made a bad decision then they could just return it.

I don't know but is it difficult to take a dog to a rehome type centre? or do they just accept your animal 'no questions asked'?

I think this has answered my question.

The reality of rehoming your dog

The reality of shelters

By law, stray pets must be kept several days for their owners to reclaim them. They may not be destroyed until that period is up. These laws don't protect dogs that have been given up by their owners. They may be destroyed at any time. Shelters don't want to euthanize all these animals but they don't have a choice. There just isn't enough room for all of them. Shelters today are so overcrowded that your dog could be euthanzed the same day it arrives.

If your dog is old, large in size, has health problems or has poor attitudes toward strangers, its chances of adoption are slim to none. Being pure bred does not help the dog's chances.

True "no-kill" shelters are few and far between and are often very selective about the dogs they bring in.

Rescues - breed-specific / all-breed groups are usually small groups of volunteers using their homes to foster dogs until they can find new homes.

Usually they are at capacity or they have other dogs already on waiting lists. They also select for higher adoptability - for every dog that stays in long-term foster care, there are many other more adoptable dogs that aren't being helped.

Many rescue organizations offer the use of their site to post a picture and information about your dog to get their information out to the public. We provide that service - the dog still remains in your care and is solely your responsibility to find a suitable home for the dog.

If you are able to pursue the option of keeping the dog until a home is found, please read the next section on reviewing potential homes.

The above sounds like what goes on in the USA where the rescue situation is far worse.

I know that our Local Dogs home has a waiting list for dogs to go in, but there is no time limit per se on how long dogs are kept, often many months.

Judging by the ones that come to my friends classes there is no selection on adoptability, low aggression to other dogs etc.

I agree the above sounds quite USA to me.... the term "no-kill" shelters is a US phrase.
That's not to say a similar cherry-picking doesn't go on here, but a larger proportion of our rescues are fundamentally no-kill, if we can believe the stats. The worst for "kill" are the pounds in Ireland which is why many UK rescues take on Irish dogs that really don't deserve to die.

Thanks both.

I nearly had kittens when it said H&p on the 31st.  I'm actually there on the 30th.  Good job i keep an eye on it (not).  I wouldn't have missed it and its still close enought o pop over and try and spot everyone who's going.

I also love Chows, my aunt used to breed them, so gentle.

Always wanted a dog, fell in love with GSDs in my teens and finally got one as soon as I bought my first house.  It had to be an adult as I was working all day and got one from a show 'breeder'...aged 5 and put on hold my plans to do the new sport of 'agility'.  Shadow was a superstar, but had bad hips and had been treated badly before being abandoned at the breeder who'd had a litter (very small in numbers) so she was rehomed.  Shockingly she didn't produce any waste products for 2 days and was clearly hungry so wasn't fed after I'd agreed to see her.  When I lost her at 12 years I wanted another rescue but no-one seemed to even want to see me so I turned to Exchange and Mart (no internet in those days) and bought what turned out to be the most fantastic, but unregistered, dog - Kim.  Breeder banned for 10years for not registering and I think now lives in Scotland.  We learnt agility together and she was a complete superstar.  Doing agility I wanted another dog but not another shep as it would have been difficult to compare the two... so I got a little x from Dog's Trust.  I then turned to border collies, having a rescue pup (Jed) who's now 11.  I heard of a litter being bred by a friend and acquired Oswy who's another exceptional dog.  I got merlie boy Ski from another friend....once you get into something like agility it's much easier to find decent dogs...(but very tempting!)...I got Lexie from Oswy's breeder.  With Kim getting frail I was desperate to find another decent shep - Kim had jumped 2' 6" until hit by Oswy on the beach and retired from 'full height' aged 11... she did a few veteran runs the following year before finally retiring and I wanted a shep who could jump!  I fell in love with a lovely bitch and booked a pup - Sophie.  I had regretted not being able to breed from Kim (weird hormones meant she was spayed and of course she wasn't KC reg) as she was so fantastic so Sophie had all the health tests and has had two litters, with me keeping one from the second litter.  I may have been tempted by the first litter but there was only one girl and she was booked almost as soon as the mating took place.   I ummed and aahhhed with Lexie till she and Cody (yes, I did have more dogs!) forced my hand so we have the gorgeous Rosie.  All in all getting dogs becomes easier the more people you know and the more you see 'lines' and find out about them.  I hope now not to have to buy any dogs, but all my litters are based around what I want, with agility in mind, and now I have shelties, with doing both agility and breeding the now rare black and white.  I love my dogs, who're all 'pets' and I want them to live happy and fulfilled lives for as long as possible...My dogs have been 12, 11 (cancer) and nearly 14 when I've lost them.  Jed is now retired from agility but will be spoiled in what I hope will be a long happy retirement.  I now do the research into bloodlines for breeding purposes...with collies there's a lot of information around, but you still need 'first hand' help.  Knowing as much as possible will mean reducing the likelihood of problems and ensuring as far as possible healthy pups who'll bring joy to the people who have them :-)

> Knowing as much as possible will mean reducing the likelihood of problems and ensuring as far as possible healthy pups who'll bring joy to the people who have them :-)

This is certainly the way to go. Good luck with future litters.
And happy retirement Jed. :)

Never allowed a dog at home, always adored GSD'S, bought a stray home in the 60's, I was about 8 yrs old, found her wandering (don't think she was really lost, I just hoped I could keep her!)in those days you walked to & from school with friends. Dogs owner turned up, my Mum was so relieved! Got marrid in 1976, got our 1st rescue GSD, Taz, a wonderful dog even though she had been really badly treated. Lost her, knew we wouldn't get another like her, saw Manchester Terriers on Pedigree Chum advert & got Peggy. Hubbie wanted a Doberman, I wanted something smaller. Bred a litter, did a bit of showing, kept a dog & then fell in love with the the miniature wire dachshund. Named the dachshund Muffin, got him to show, he was monorchid, he lived with the 2 Manchesters! Went back to my first love GSD'S when the Manchesters passed away & got Holly, really bad cruelty case, featured on the tv. When she passed away stayed with GSD'S & got Zak. He has been hard work, had really bad start, but we discovered the fun of agility. He lives with Tilly, x rescue terrier who came to live with us when Muffin passed away. They have been joined by 'Stanley' whippet, I did my homework this time & went for a short coated, medium sized dog, who was amiable with other dogs & hopefully will oblige & do a bit of agility with me. Phew!

> They have been joined by 'Stanley' whippet,

I love these dogs, they are the only dog that can tire my GSD out at the park. He'll chase and chase but never catch 'em. They wind him up something rotten. Funny.

As a breeder I find it shocking that people either can't or won't take their pups back if they have to part with them.  These people don't deserve the title 'breeder' as that implies some care for the dogs that are bred.  My pups are sold with a contract, fully explained to the purchaser, that if there's a health issue not picked up by me then they can bring the pup back for a full refund within 7 days, after that if they don't want or can't keep the pup then they must return to me, depending on the circumstances they may or may not get back any money.  The welfare of the dog is the top priority.  I hope that people who buy off me feel that they could bring the pup back and that I would do my best for it.  I haven't been breeding very long, I have had a pup back after a few weeks... my fault entirely it was a novice dog owner and they wanted a robot not a lively and enthusiastic pup!  Because she was still very young and very well behaved! she went to a fantastic home within a week and I refunded almost the entire amount, retaining a small amount to cover various costs. 

Posters have said about breeders being 'picky', but you would expect that off good breeders, wanting the best for their pups, not wanting to have them returned or to live horrid lives.  Poor breeders will just sell to anyone.  My advice though if you're looking for a good breeder and don't necessarily fit the criteria is to have a long look at what the issues are, come clean to a breeder and work with them - get to know them and ensure that you can look after the pup in the way the breeder wants.  Some breeders look at things differently...I worked full time and had dogs successfully, 2 people spend a lot of time on canals and had been turned down..yet they offered a fantastic life for a dog.  So don't give up and chose to have a dog who may have health and behavioural issues.

Everything you have said pennyGC I have learned from on here, and fully understand, the whole welfare of the pups is the 1 and only concern for decent breeders, and so it should be. It is just a shame that you will always have those who are in it for the money, and nothing else.

Good post.