> ...almost all other posts are on quite another subject - mainly the ethics of the matter first discussed and personalities involved.

i.e. the goldfish bowl you mentioned earlier.

I too am in a numerically small breed.

It's a bit like Society.

On the one hand there is the intrusiveness of everyone knowing your business and judging your actions, but the advantage is that peer/social pressure is more likely to make the members of a small society abide by the rules, or risk the wrath of the societies members.

It is the anonymity of large cities and in dogs of no-one looking over your shoulder that allow so much of what we don't want to go on.

In a small breed for example it is easier to get all breeders to health test for example, if that is decided to be the way forward.

In our breed all breeders in any way reputable all health test, so it is much easier to keep on top of any emerging health issues and actually do something about it.

In numerically large breeds, minority doing the right thing, and the majority are not afraid of anyones opinion.

Munsters are a close family group. In other words, every munster born in this country is related in some form or another. As such, the breeders/owners are sort of a family, and you know the saying. You can choose your friends, but not your family ;-) We get on most of the time, but ocassionally we fall out over some thing. If we all thought the same how boring life would be :-p We would never try different things with our breeding programmes.

Anyone looking for a munster should go and see them at shows, find a type you like and speak to the owners and breeders. Find a breeder that you can talk to and that you feel that you can become friends for the next 15 years or so.

I suppose this goes for anyone looking for any breed really. :-) In other words, do your homework..

> almost all other posts are on quite another subject - mainly the ethics of the matter first discussed and personalities involved.

I'm sure if anyone was overstepping the mark on this thread or it was diverting off the topic too much. Admin or the board moderator would have, quite rightly, closed the discussion.

> Anyone looking for a munster should go and see them at shows, find a type you like and speak to the owners and breeders

I think the Internet is a very useful search engine.  Not every LM owner/exhibitor is active in the breed but their type of LM's may appeal to the GP.    What is currently out in the showring might not give a true represention of all LM dogs in the UK.

So do you breed and show ?
Yes to both.
What we need to think about are what health issues could arise from such a close mating? And this is not the first time this breeder has had an accidental mating and in a bitch so young, after all this is her second litter.
What we must think of now is that those pups get good loving homes after all they didn't ask to be here.

> What we need to think about are what health issues could arise from such a close mating? And this is not the first time this breeder has had an accidental mating and in a bitch so young, after all this is her second litter.

I personally feel that this breeder needs to get this bitch DNA tested for carrying the brown gene & BHFD gene as well as the litter sister she owns too.    But I truly hope for this bitches sake, she is now spayed or not bred from for at least 2-3 years.

If anyone is genuinaly interested in considering a LM as a pet I am more then happy for them to pm me and then exchange telephone numbers for a chat.  They are not the breed for everyone and I know when I researched them (sensibly in my opinion) and on a par with how I would wish to research any breed - and how I would welcome anyone to research my main breed - then I managed to ruffle feathers and almost make arch enemies lol  Should have got out then before I got one and made proper arch enemies lol lol lol I am kidding......

If you are looking for a breed to show then I really wouldn't get one, likewise I wouldn't be looking to get them and start breeding - they are never going to make it in the popularity stakes and they will never be glamerous or noticable in the ring.  If you want a good active dog (with possible traits) then they can be extremely rewarding.

I miss ours nowadays, the shock has lessened and time blurs the memories, I almost yearn for another, but I think not

I partly agree with Sarah but I have been very lucky with the LM's I have had & have in terms of temperament and not really showing the breed's less desirable traits.    It depends on the lines, I started off with a very laid back, gentleman of a dog and thankfully his progeny seemed to have inherited this trait. 

I have never heard of some of the colours that happened in this litter. Will there be any problems for the pups in the future due to the colour they are?