Hi All

Well its now Sunday and Hamish had his rimadyl injection at the vets on Thursday evening the vet said we would notice a huge improvement in him within 1 hr which up to now he is still no different, he gave him rimadyl tablets which he has to have 1 twice a day for 1 week, he is still no livelier in himself and is still just wandering around the house not knowing where to settle, once he does eventually settle he then just nods off to sleep for a while until he wakes again and then is up and starts wandering, his appetite is still no better, he ate some dinner last night after picking at it for a while then just walked away as if he had had enough, this morning we have had trouble getting his tablet into him as he has got no interest in his food at all, i have been at work over the past 2 days and Mum has been looking after him while i have been at work but she said he certainly is far from right, if he is no better tomorrow i am going to phone the vet and see what he says, as from what he said we should have seen a lot of improvement in him by now, but he is still just a quiet as he was before.
I am just so worried about him i don't know what to do for the best, he looks so sorry for himself.

Helen

You know, I am not an expert or remotely involved with the veterinary profession, but if he was in pain, i.e. spine etc I would think that this could cause the breathleassness as you know if you get a sharp pain yourself it can take your breath away. You have already said that he finds it difficult to get comfortable and in his sleep if he moves than the pain can still break through the sleep barrier. I'm sure most people that do suffer with this type of pain could agree with that. Keeping everything crossed.

My eldest did gher back or necxk in earlier this year and I can tell you nw this really put her out of sorts.  She could hardly walk, screamed out in pain and took her ages to get up.  Did they do x-rays of the spine and neck?  It took her 3 months to recover from it.

They did xrays of his spine and hip because he doesn't move the back leg very well without pulling it back in when they were moving it, on the xrays there was no arthritus showed up or leg perthes disease which they suspected, on the spine there was some fuzziness over the spine area which was sore on examining, the specialist said the only way they would know for sure would be to MRI scan him, this would have to be done by a neurologist so thats why they are trying him on this pain course for 1 week to see if he improves then they will go from there, the only thing i cannot understand is that he will jump up on his hind legs will climb stairs okay and jumps in and out of the back door to get into the garden so this doesn't all point to back pain surely, as i would have thought he would have had trouble moving.
His breathing still doesn't seem to be right, he keeps making strange sounds and also makes a coughing noise every now and again as if he is trying to clear something in his throat, so i am just not sure what to make of it all at the moment.

Oh Helen, he sounds like Barney was with Rimadyl.  It made him very restless, he wouldn't settle.  Damned stuff!

He also would be very throaty as they possibly have had tubes down him to ventilate him while doing all these tests.  Barney was the same; didn't want food, seemed almost sick by just being offered it...it would take a lot of fuss and coaxing to get
him to respond, but finally he would.

There's been talk about Barney also having an MRI Scan....I think it's really because they don't know what they're dealing with.  All these tests and separation from us just stressed him out even more.....Not one had any real lead as to what is wronge, just excess
fat count in his blood, tenderness around his girth and an enlarged liver. 

So, what this all meant, they don't really know.  We, OH and me talked about this at length and have decided to leave him be...Let him do the usual things, and have his time as kindly as possible and it seems to be working for now.

I realize that our time together isn't going to be very long but I feel we made the right decision for him
                                                
                                                             God bless you both

 

Thanks for your reply, its nice in a way to hear that somebody else has been through the same and not got any real answers as to what is causing it, i too have discussed with my family when will be the best time to say he has now had enough tests and enough is enough he will just do what he wants and eat what he wants until the time comes when he is too poorly to carry on, i know he isn't happy at the moment and that something is definitely wrong with him but i am certainly not putting him through major spinal surgery if they cannot guarantee to me that this is definitely what his problem is and that he will then recover fully and lead a normal life again, i am very concerned about the lung problems as i still feel that this is what is causing him to be breathless as i feel that if it were his spine he would not have a surge of energy and be able to run around and then all of a sudden for his energy to be drained and him back panting and laying down again, if he had problems moving around all the time i would say yes it was spinal but he will brighten up and then suddenly he tires again, just doesn't make sense.
Is Barney very old and is he a westie aswell?

Helen

Sounding more like Pulmonary Fibrosis now Helen.   Hope they get to the bottom soon..Poor lad.

I'm sure our dog was changed over to rimadyl (for arthritis pain) a few years ago and it did him no good at all, we put him back over to metacam because of it (caused problems long term but for short term ok). It may be worth going back to the vet and requesting an alternative pain killer, not all pain killers work at their optimum in all cases (paracetamol on its own does no good for me I know).

Edited to say i was replying to post above but replied to first post to move it all back across the screen as posts were getting a bit squashed up, hope you don't mind :)

Hi All

Tests are back on Hamish, the specialist phoned me this afternoon, the lung culture has shown he has got inflammatory lung disease which she said the tubes were inflamed when they did the bronchoscopy but the culture has shown that his lungs are thickened and inflamed inside the lung which means he won't be getting the proper amount of oxygen that he needs, 1 lung is worse than the other 1 at the moment, she said that the treatment for this is steroids and a bronchial dilator and that some dogs react better than others to these so it really is trial and error until they see how he reacts, she said that this condition gets worse in time and they don't know how quickly he will deteriorate as again all dogs are different, i explained that being on the rimadyl has not improved him and has made him even more sleepy so she said to stop these and she wants the orthopaedic specialist to take a look at him to rule out joint pain coming from the spine/hip where he was tender in the consultation she said that this is the next step as they need to know whether there is an underlying pain issue as well going on, they have fitted him in for Saturday morning she said he may need to stay in and be given anaesthetic if the specialist finds pain on the consulation and wants to do muscle tests under anaesthetic to assess how the muslces are working, if they then find a problem they may need to look at MRI scans but this will be further down the line. She said that once these tests have been done with the orthopaedic specialist and they have determined whether there is joint pain they will then get him started on the lung drugs to help his breathing because she said they cannot give him steroids before the orth specialist has seen him as this will shield the pain, i have agreed to taking him down Saturday as i feel we are finally getting some answers and this lady today explained things better than the specialist last week, she was working closely with the other guy and she said that she actually did the exercise test with Hamish before he had the bronchoscopy and said that he tired very quickly with her she said that at first he was all eager to go out for a walk but when they got out his energy levels started to get slower and slower until he came to a full stop and was completely knackered, i explained that this was my first ever dog and i wasn't sure if this was normal for some dogs but she said no a 4 1/2 yr old terrier should be bursting with energy and he is definitely not, i am glad in a way that he did the same with her that he does with us because at least they can see what he is like not just by what i am describing. She said that the lethargy links more to the lungs not getting enough oxygen to be causing him to be so slow when walking, but she said not eating much seems more pain related and cause also contribute to lethargy so this is why they need to investigate the spine/hip because as he was sore over these areas they just want to take a closer look by a bone man.
Will keep you all informed as to how he gets on, thanks again for all your replies Hamish and i do appreciate it
Helen

Helen , you have done a lot more for Hamish than some people would do, well done to you and I hope that the medication works for him.

Hi

Well we are off to the specialist hospital again soon with Hamish to see the orthopaedic specialist, its about 1hrs drive to get there and its a shame its gonna be hot today as he doesn't travel too well in the heat with his lung problems (need airconditioning in my car really), hopefully he will say he doesn't want to keep him in and knock him out again for further tests to be done, i am hoping he will know what the problem is.
Will let you all know how we get on i am keeping everything crossed for him as he has been through so much already, my brave little man.

Helen

Good luck Helen. Hope you get some better news for a change.

Good luck to you both today and hopefully your news will be positive :)

Hi All

Well back from seeing the orthopaedic specialist, he gave him a full check over of his spine/hips and said that the xrays on his hips looked fine, the spinal xrays where they spotted some fuzziness he said was nothing to worry about, he felt all down his spine and he said if there was any soreness there he would have cried out which he didn't, he said he is a bit sore over the sacro illiac joint area but nothing that he would worry about as he still didn't cry just turned round on him when he was pulling him about, he asked me to take him outside to the grass area behind the hospital as he wanted to watch him moving, he asked me at first to walk him up and down on his lead then start to run with him, he said he is moving okay but what he was amazed about was how quickly he started to pant and his energy levels dropped to the point where he said he looked 'knackered', he said in a dog with joint problems they are slow from the start but Hamish will start off lively and within no time of exercising you can see how his energy levels start to decrease until he comes to a complete stop and lays down, he said this is more linked to his lung disease than pain. He said he felt there was no need to do unnecessary tests on him taking him in and giving him anaesthetic when there was nothing positive showed up on the tests he did in the examination, i was pleased with this as was worried about him being knocked out again in this short period of time.
He said he will leave a report for the medicine specialists on Tuesday to say that he feels this isn't a pain related problem, he said they will then decide the best treatment plan for Hamish's lung disease, i know the specialist i spoke to in the week said that if this comes back clear she would advise we try him on the lung medication which would be steroids and a bronchial dilator to see if he responds to this drugs trial, so i will phone up on Tuesday and speak to her regarding where we go from here, i am going to ask her why he isn't eating much though as she felt that if he is in pain this would be the cause as she felt the lung disease would not cause him to go off of his food, but now they have ruled out pain i don't know why he doesn't want much food.
I am glad in a way that he doesn't have spinal/hip problems but it now looks more that its the lung disease causing him to be so lethargic and have no energy, the orthopaedic specialist said that as soon as he saw him do the exercise test it proved to him that we were not looking at joint pain because he said dogs with joint/spinal problems start off slow and stay slow, but he said with Hamish he is all lively at first and within a short while you can actually see his energy levels getting lower and lower which he said does not link to pain it links to oxygen levels and breathing, he said he was sorry he couldn't give me any more positive information to the cause but he said that the medicine team would now take further action to advise where we go from here with him and try and get him a better quality of life.
So we are now back home and he is asleep on his bed as he is exhausted poor little mite, he was as good as gold down there even though he was being pulled and prodded around he never complains and never growls or gets angry, i just want him left alone now for a while for him to rest and take it easy and live a quieter life not being at the vets all the time.
Will let you know what happens when i speak to the medicine specialist on Tuesday.

Helen and Hamish

Hi

I spoke to the medicine specialist earlier today and she said that she has spoken to the orthopaedic specialist about Hamish and that he feels this is not a pain related issue adding to his lung disease, she said it nows looks like the lungs are the main problem causing his lethargy and that we need to think and decide where we now go from here, she said that the orthopaedic specialist also noted how quickly he tired on exercising him and that he found this was the major issue here, she said the way foreward that she recommends would be to trial him for 7-10 days on the lung medication which would be steroids and a bronchial dilator and hope that we see a great improvement in him, she said that some dogs react very well to this medication others improve slightly and some dogs don't show any reaction at all, she said this is why at the moment she cannot give me a long term prognosis for Hamish because we need to wait and see how he responds over the next week, she said that if there is a good improvement and he is lively and tolerating a walk without getting breathless then we can adjust the dose until we can stabilise him, if there is no improvement and he is still like he is now we then need to sit and discuss where we want to go from here, she said that they would then recommend he goes back in to have another bronchoscopy down where they would investigate further down into the lungs to see if the disease has gone into the bottom of the lung lobe aswell, they could also do lung biopsy's but she said that this would be the last resort really, other than that we need to look at the quality of life he has got and whether he is likely to improve at all, all these questions are now going round and round in my mind and i am just hoping and praying that he picks up on this medication. Also at the moment he needs to go for very short walks if he is up to it if not just let him poodle around in the back garden, she said that a little dog doesn't need to go out every day and the way he is at the moment i really do need to let him decide if he feels well enough to go out or not, if i get him out as soon as he tires i have got to bring him home and am not to over walk him as this will in turn stress his lungs out, she said on the ECG they also picked up a leaky heart valve.
She is going to fax the letter to my local vet later today for the medication that he needs and she said i should be able to go and collect it tomorrow as long as they have all the drugs in stock, she said that i need to phone her again in 10 for a progress report to how he is going and then we will go from there.
She said that the liver is not working as well as it should be due to the liver damage caused by the atopica drug and that we need also to keep a check on this over the next few months, she feels that this problem will be causing him to not always want to eat his food and that we need to just tempt him with what he wants to have, she said even if he eats a little bit of the naturediet it is better than nothing.
So thats the update for now will let you all know how he gets on over the next week on the medication
Helen and Hamish

I hope he responds well to the trials. Since he tires so easily would he enjoy going somewhere in the car for a change of scenery. My dogs both enjoy sitting on the high street where they get attention from people or sitting in a beach or busy park so they can watch the world go by. It was what I did when they were both too young to walk far and when my boy was recovering from surgery. Neither required much walking - just lots of head turning. :) Crossing everything for a good outcome for your boy.

Hi Helen, still following everything.  Sending him best wishes.

You are doing all you can.

Hope the medication gives him some relief :)

Lucy
xx

Keeping everything crossed for the medication to work.

Hi All

Quick update on how Hamish is doing, well my vets managed at last to track down these drugs for him and i collected them on Thursday evening i came home with a bag full of medication for him, he has got to have 2 different lots of drugs for his stomach as the lung medication can irritate his stomach lining he has got to have steroids and 2 bronchial dilators 1 of which is a medicine which he needs to have 3 times per day, he is taking this very well considering i was a bit worried about having to give him medicine but he has been very good up to now, i started all this medication on Friday morning so we are now up to day 3, the vet phoned yesterday at the end of his surgery to see how he was but i said up to now i haven't noticed much change in him the only positive side is that he seems to be eating a bit more which seems to be down to the steroids as i know the specialist said that this should increase his appetite, he is actually waiting by the cupboard at teatime now which is a good sign and is eating more than he was, still not as much as he used to eat but any small sign to me is a good sign, as for his energy levels these haven't improved yet but i know its still early days and perhaps i am expecting a bit too much too quickly, the vet said we should have seen a slight improvement quickly then over the days hoped for this to improve greatly, but i am just keeping my fingers crossed that Hamish may improve by mid week, he is only on the trial until next Sunday then the 10 days is up so i am keeping everything crossed at the moment for a bit result soon.
will let you know how he goes throughout the week.

Helen and Hamish (soon to be Linford Christie i hope)

Hi All

Well we are now on day 8 of the drugs trial and have got 2 days left, unfortunately Hamish doesn't seem to be responding at all to the treatment apart from his appetite has increased due to the steroids which is 1 good sign, his lethargy is no different and he is still sleeping a lot, we cannot seem to interest him in anything that holds his attention for very long, if we entice him to play with his toys he plays for 5 mins then is so worn out and panting that he stops and lays down, i have tried taking him out for a walk but he only gets up the road and is breathless and panting in no time so have given up no in taking him walkies as i feel this is not helping him as it seems to stress his lungs out too much, i hoped and prayed that by now we would have been seeing great improvements like the specialist hoped we would aswell and that he would be back to running around like a 4 1/2 yr old westie should be, but this doesn't seem to be the case and i know in my heart that it is not looking good for him as there is no slight improvement either.
I have got to phone the specialist back on Monday to update them and see where we go from here with Hamish now, they said there were further tests that could be done like lung biopsys and other tests but if they are not going to be in his best interests now i am not putting him through anymore as i feel he has been through enough in his short little life, she already told me that this condition wasn't curable and that it would only deteriorate in time but that she couldn't tell me how quickly and what his prognosis was until the drugs trial had been completed but there are questions i want to ask now before we go any further.
Will let you all know what happens next week but just thought i would update you
Helen and Hamish

Oh Helen
It must be heart breaking for you to see him so poorly :(

Keep strong

Lucy
xx

So sorry to hear this, I am sure everyone was hoping for better results than this.

So sorry to hear this, I hoped that the treatment would help him, how disheartening for you . Hope they can suggest something else to help him.

I'm sorry to hear Hamish isn't responding well to the treatment. What a difficult position to be in.

Hi All

Have just spoken to the specialist about Hamish and they want to see him again tomorrow to reassess him, they said that by now he should have been a lot better being on the medication and that it is worrying that there is no improvements in him, they have fitted him in as an emergency appt and have said that i will have to leave him again as they will need to admit him for further investigation, they said they will certainly need to do more xrays on his chest/lungs and will go through what other tests need to be done with me beforehand, i am going to find out more about the tests first this time as i feel that Hamish's needs must come first as he has already been through so much, they are wanting to continue with the medication he is on for his lungs as they said stopping the steroids suddenly will do more harm than good.
Will let you know how we get on tomorrow.

Helen and Hamish

Best of luck with this visit - and hopefully there will be some answers for you soon and Hamish will be back on the road to good health.

Hi All

Back from the specialist they didn't keep him in and sedate him again as they felt that as he only had xrays done 3 weeks ago not much would have changed to warrant another anaesthetic so quickly, they did another exercise test on him and found he was just as bad as before he started the medication and on checking his blood gases these were also low again, they have taken some more blood and also did another ultrasound to check for pulmonary hypertension, the specialist has agreed with us that his quality of life at the moment is very poor for a dog of his age and he said that we may need to consider euthanasia if we cannot get him any better, i said that is seems so sad to watch him like this as he struggles to do day to day things especially when he has not got the energy to go for a walk or play with his toys, he said that the next step would be to put him on a high dose of lung drugs than he has been on which include bronchial dilators and steroids again, he said that they need to change the bronchial dilator drug to a different and stronger drug to see if his body will respond to these he said that he would like to give him 4 weeks on these drugs to give him a fair chance of the drug working and his body kicking in to fight with these drugs but if after this he is no better or only slightly improved we will then need to rethink of Hamish's quality of life for the future, he said that they could do lung biopsies but these are very ivasive procedures and they would not be of any benefit to Hamish treatment wise so i have said no to these being done as i feel he has been through enough, so we now need to hope and pray that these drugs will get him to turn the corner and give him a better quality of life.
He is gonna fax my vet with the new drugs list and we just need to wait for these bloods to come back in 2 days before we can start the new drugs incase his blood levels have changed through the steroids, hopefully by the end of the week he will be able to start them.
Will keep you all posted as to how he gets on
Helen

Dreadfully sorry to hear this, I will certainly be saying my prayers for him, and you.

So sorry to hear that there are no answers yet :(

Sending lots of positive thoughts for a successful outcome to his problems and in improvement in his quality of life.

Hi All

Just a quick update on Hamish, i phoned the vets yesterday and they have got his inhalers in but are still waiting on the areochamber to come in stock so they are expecting it today, hopefully when i finish work at lunchtime i will be able to go and collect it then and get started with it, he has now stopped the oral steroids and unfortunately his appetite is slowing down which we thought would happen once he came off of them, he finished them on Wednesday morning and today didn't want any of his breakfast so hopefully its just a one off and tomorrow he will feel better, it was so nice to see him eating a bit more when he was on the steroids and he has started to fill out a bit more instead of looking so thin and gaunt, i am gonna see how he goes over the next few days and if he starts to stop eating again will have a word with the vet, he is still drinking loads at the moment but the vet said that once the oral steroids were out of his system this should subside so we just need to monitor him at the moment.
Will keep you all updated over the new few weeks of his progress.

Helen