Sadly the people who invent such registries know the market and how to market themselves, better than the Kennel club including the registries name and logo, wants to make me heave every time I see it, which is in a lot of publications, unlike the kennel club.

They play to the publics misunderstanding that they only want pets and give the impression that pet puppies are registered with them and Kennel club is for those show freaks.

I even read an article yesterday basically taking a really strange view on and testing.  The slant was that this was a tool for creating designer freaks and hardly a mention made of it's primary use for hereditary disease control.

Its a shame the Kc and breed clubs don't put features in every place the 'other' one does, explaining why people who want a pet dog want a pet that has a good chance of being a happy, healthy dog with a long future and breeding lines that are accurate. This is where I think the Kc fall down with their two tier system, because I can see the confusion in a puppy persons mind as to why if its a Kc reg pup one appeares to be better than the other, when the Kc register both, but if a phone number was there for them to talk to someone with much knowledge the difference between a good breeder and a bad one, and a Kc reg litter and the 'other one' would be much clearer. Sometimes people simply don't know where to look for a puppy, because of lack of advertising they don't know about breed clubs, or think them to be for the show people, and thinking they wouldn't want to talk to someone who 'just wants a pet', something the 'other side' encourages.

Do they or what.  :rolleyes:

There are at least two large puppy Supermarkets in the North of England, and the vast majority of my breeds rescue workload is caused by these commercial sales.  Very sad when there are too few of my bred bred to keep the gene pool wide enough, yet we have exploiters causing rescue problems with stock sold through commercial outlets.

I have always thought if pups and kittens were only allowed to be sold from the breeder or stud owner direct or homed from rescues it would have a huge impact not only on rescue but on the whole puppy farming industry.

The puppy farmers would have to sell direct to the public and therefore be under public scrutiny, and would have to at least present the pups and Mums in clean conditions for sale if nothing else.

Even if people bought them on pity they could report these people to the relevant authorities.

Brainless, I think you and I are on the same wave length, I wish others were too. There are far too many commercial breeding establishments/puppy farms breeding excessive litters of puppies for the pet trade. They sell the puppies to dealers or directly to the traders who sell them to the public. There are far too many outlets issued pet shop licenses allowing them to buy in these puppies to resell.  There is no way that puppies should be exploited in this way.  How can it be acceptable for puppies to bred in S Ireland (where there is no licensing for dog breeders at all) to be transported from Ireland en-masse, carried by ferry to mainland UK then to be driven in a vehicle to these outlets that buy them in at a cheap price as far away as London, Essex, Lincs. Is that acceptable for litters of puppies often less than 8 weeks of age? I think not. Whether they are bred in Wales and travel to Manchester or Ireland to London, the puppies welfare is not taken into account.  They should not have to endure this it is detrimental to their welfare.
I have known puppies as old as 16 weeks to still be waiting to be sold in a licenced pet shop, having endured poor breeding initially, stress of transportation, mixing of litters, lack of socialization. Then the puppy sold to an unsuspecting puppy purchaser for a price that often exceeds the price of a well bred puppy. The puppy through no fault of its own is not house trained, may have worms, not fully vaccinated, inaccurent paperwork, difficult to train, suffers issolation anxiety when left and so it goes on and what happens a few days time, puppy falls sick, heavy vets bills puppy not insured. New owner cannot cope. Where does puppy end up advertised for sale so the purchaser can get back some of the money they spent on trying to get it right. Next owner fails and young dog ends up in rescue. So the story repeats itself time and time again. Alternatively, the puppy dies a few days after purchase, because it should never have been sold in he first place, it was vulnerable and supceptable to disease. This is why it is so very wrong for puppies to be sold from third parties.  It s time the Government was made aware of this clandestine trade in often sick puppies.      

But it isn't clandestine, it appears to have the whole hearted backing of government, even the Welsh office giving grants to start up puppy breeding kennels.

The astonishing thing is that commercial breeders aren't allowed to sell pups under 8 weeks, EXCEPT TO COMMERCIAL KENNELS or Scottish Rearing establishment (I think that's kennels or pet shop).  so the supposed breeding and sale of dogs welfare bill actually encourages wholesale sale of pups to retailers as that way they can be sold enmasse under 8 weeks.

If the puppies sold from a pet shop are Kc registered, are they in the name of the breeder, or the pet shop/supermarket when they are sold on? Or, the named individual at the shop. My thoughts being, if a litter of puppies are transfered to one person/shop, then sold on, this surely goes against Kc rules and the Kc should pick up on this and take action? They shouldn't need anyone to complain, because the evidence is there in front of them when they update the pups details. can't they then take action against the breeder to stop them registering their puppies? Just a thought, wonder what you all think? Another thing, if a breed club rep visited one of these awful selling places, and found this was happening, couldnt they inform the Kc to investigate?

I doubt very much they would transfer the puppies twice, that would cost money.

>Another thing, if a breed club rep visited one of these awful selling places, and found this was happening, couldnt they inform the Kc to investigate?

I believe that has happened, Samoyeds I seem to remember but there may have been others, and the KC took action against the breeder registering.  I don't believe they generally are KC registered in these places these days.  They have started their own registeries that suit them better :rolleyes:.

That is what we did in our breed as when they were KC reg some owners joined our club and were willing to say they bought the pups from commercial kennels, that is about the time the other registries started up.

You're right that it's against the KC's Code of Ethics for a breeder to sell puppies to pet shops ("Owners will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retail pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind.") and action could be taken against them. What form that action would take, and if it would have any effect, isn't stated.

I suppose it's possible for the brood bitches to be registered in the name of the pet shop owner while they actually live with the true breeder of the pups.

>if a breed club rep visited one of these awful selling places, and found this was happening, couldnt they inform the Kc to investigate?

It wouldn't have to be a breed club rep - any member of the general public (that's you and me! ;)) could do it.

Anyone that purchases a puppy from a pet shop licence holders premises that is registered by the KC in the name of the breeder can contact the KC advising them that the breeder has broken the KC code of ethics. What they (KC) will do is very little, other than to advise the breeder that they have acted against the code of ethics and the Kc may not allow them to register anymore puppies with them in the future. All the breeder will do then, if they are the type of breeder that thinks it is ok to sell their pupies to a third party, is to register their puppies with the other registeration company or not register at all. The pet shop licence holder knows the KC code of ethics but they do not care because ethics are not legally binding.

Any figures for flat coats\ gsps please?

Forgot to ask before - did any Anatolian Shepherds pop up?