There is nothing wrong with spending lavishly at Christmas if that is what you want to do and you have got the money.  Whatever luxuries I might choose for myself though, I would not expect you to subsidise me if I somehow lost the money.

I am afraid that your rather personal attack has invalidated your argument and isn't worthy of a reply :(

Daisy

Methinks you all doth protest too much.  ;)

If that is the way some people like to save for Christmas so be it.  To hand money over to an agent every week/month knowing they won't get it back until Christmas in the shape of vouchers or hampers is maybe the way some people do it, they know that money they've handed over isn't accessible to them again unlike the 'stash' they would keep at home in the form of savings or supermarket stamps.  It takes allsorts and it maybe works for some people doing it this way.   I've always said just after Christmas I would try to buy £5 of Tesco stamps each week towards next Christmas - have I??????  A big fat NO.

That's all I'm saying on the subject.    It's all very well being wise AFTER the event and saying you should've done this & you should've done that but it doesn't really help anyone does it?

Daisy - can you direct me to the personal attack as I seemed to have missed it

>Face the truth, claiming that these people dont deserve help and support is just a mask for you to hide behind, so you can justify not giving to the appeal, and keep your money selfishly to yourselves.

:)

I am one of the people who choose to save with Farepak, I also get saver stamps at Asda. I have become a single mum this year and it seemed like a good idea as a way for saving for Christmas as I thought it would pay for everything for my children. I choose to save this way and dont expect anyone to pay to cover what I lost.
Lesson learnt I will never use any of these companies to save again, I didnt realise they werent regulated(sp).
Mary

Mary, I think thats the problem most people would assume a company like that would be regulated and an eventuality like this would be covered, no one could have imagined this happening - or am I being very nieve ? .  I think it is really sad that some people genuinely will miss out on the xmas they have been saving for and looking forward to all year, but I also agree there are others who spend way too much on xmas.  But surely saving with a company such as this is better than slamming it all on a credit card then going bankrupt because you cant afford the repayments.

I think the government should actually have their knuckles rapped for this also as these hamper schemes have run for years and should have been regulated to be honest.

That's true and perhaps they will now get off their bums and do something
so that other families won't go through this again next year.

The collapse of Farepak has also resulted in the loss of jobs/redundancy for
the staff there which may have had no clue about the troubles either..

Christmas is an awful time for anyone to be without - without a family, home, job.
Perhaps instead of 'debating' we should all give to a charity of our own choosing
and make a small difference this year..or donate to those that give a hamper of food
to the elderly in your own community. The donation is normally tins of something to make
the hampers up.

To be honest Xmas this year will be a time of mixed emotions..as currently I am in
consultancy period before I get made redundant. So on 22 Dec it could be my last
day in my current job. I'm sad that I and the rest of my colleagues are going through
this just before Christmas...it's a completely naff time of year to try and find other employment etc etc..
But at least we've been told before Christmas so we know not to go 'mad' on pressies etc.
Although I shall make every effort to make sure my neice and nephews get something as three of
them also have birthdays around Christmas..the others in my family may have to go empty handed as I just can't
be sure that I will have employment/income when made redundant (I've been there less than two years so don't qualify for any redundancy but may get a months notice..if I'm  really lucky). So can't afford to risk lots of money..
Not that I go mad at Christmas anyhow..

Peace and Goodwill to you all :)
Kirstine

That isn't a real CD personal attack :-D :-D I have seen much better ones than this :-)

Hope everyone is in a happy mood this morning. After all it is nearly Xmas :-D

:( :(

I'm not saying any more on this thread - if you really are having problems PM me

Daisy

There but for the grace of god go I.

Maybe the time of year makes some of us more charitable?  Has a charity been set up that the public can donate to?

Its not a personal attack daisy, merely a response to what I found to be an offensive comment.

Daisy, I dont think giving Pinky :-) the benefit of the doubt was being personal , I interpretated it as the SHE as in it could have been any she, just because one only spends £250 on a holiday doesn't mean the rest of the same.

I have not been in favour of these hamper clubs and I certainly spend far too muc during Xmas but we do it in our house because it is one of these times of the year when we make a point of going out a bit more, going to shows a bit more, having more freinds round for meals and for me I definately spend a very lot more, For me it isn't actually on Xmas or the presents it just happens to be when my family and I choose to do the biggest part of our entertaining in and out of the house.  We make a point of it to make up for the very unsocialble rest of the year maining due to time and commitments.  everyone we know family and freinds always have Xmas off AND bare in mind that it is now just about the only time of the year people actually holiday together. That is my view from a slightly different angle I think :-)

I wasn't going to add any more to this thread, but feel I must :rolleyes:

As any regular CDer knows I hate Xmas and actually spend very little on it. Despite, at times, having a good income, my children have always been restricted to a relatively small Xmas present. I hate useless gifts and my sister amd family always let each other know what we want. This year's limit for family (apart from my adult, student children who might get £50 each) is £10 each. Xmas lunch will be a very poor affair compared to a lot. Both my OH and I were brought up not to waste our money. Whatever we have we have worked AND saved for. As for holidays - yes, we did have one to France this year - it was our 25th wedding anniversary and we made sure that we had two weeks away. It was the first time for 6 years that we had had more than a weeks holiday in a year and some years we have had none. As for dogs, mine have one collar and lead each (apart from a flexilead), no clothes :D and apart from food, vet's bills and training/agility that is ALL I spend on them.

If Pinklilies likes to PM me with the name of her chosen charity and a suitable amount, I would be more than glad to send a donation - I have never shirked donating to good causes and I feel insulted that she should insinuate otherwise.

As for offensive comments - it is what I believe and I am entitled to my opinion and if Pinklilies finds it offensive, then that is her perogative :(

Daisy

I agree 100% about hating useless gifts, Daisy. There's nothing so sad as the adverts after Christmas as people sell their 'unwanted gifts' - obviously things that have been given without a thought for the recipient. What a waste of time and money. :(

Well Ive seen what a family of 6 pay out just for a weekly shop....if you add presents for 4 children  and 2 adults its not so hard to get to £2000 surely??

I really fail to see HOW. At Christmas here, we are 4 adults and 4 children although two of the children are older teenagers so more or less adult. 8 people. We spend in total about £500 on food and presents and everything else (cards etc, and presents include those for people not there, i.e. ones that have to be posted to family and friends abroad) and the kids tend to get what they ask for but KNOW it has to be within reasonable limits. If they want something big and expensive it has to be a combined present from everyone (parents, grandparents) or they will have to chose cheaper things if they want a present from each one. Each parent (2) and each grandparent (also 2) spend rougly £35 on each child with step granny giving cheaper gifts such as selection boxes. We have lots and LOTS of food and extra treats but to my way of thinking Christmas isn't Christmas if you go out and buy it all -Christmas food should be home made.  If anything my husband, year after year, moan that I do too MUCH- we have food left over well into January LOL.

So no, I can't see how you could spend up to £2000 for 6 people........

I only considered using Farepack one year ....it was the year that my ex and I split up and I was bringing 3 children up with no financial support from anyone except the local benefits office :rolleyes: I found that saving a few pounds every week was easier (for me then) than trolling into town and queueing up to put the money into a bank. As it happens, I met Stephen and managed to get a little p/t job to tide me over but then my children were not babies

Yes logic says that the people who have lost money should have put their money into a bank or building society and then got the money out at Christmas ...however, when you are living on benefits there is always something that comes up and needs paying ...and if the money is in the bank then that is what will happen to it. If it isn't in the bank then you will find a way around it ...it is just the way it is and unless you have struggled on benefits then it would be difficult for you to understand possibly.

I don't spend a fortune on anything at Christmas nor do I see a reason to but that doesn't give ME the right to comment on what others do or even to take the moral high ground about it ...it is their choice

I feel for anyone who loses money in an unfair way ..be it pension rights, carehomes, farepack or job losses. All of these hit hard and more especially at Christmas. Just because we might not agree with the amount people have lost do we really have the right to say they are any more unworthy than anyone else? Yes you can say they had a choice ....but given their circumstances any other way would be very difficult.

JMO

I agree Melody! Very well put!

>unless you have struggled on benefits then it would be difficult for you to understand possibly.

As I'm in that very situation, that's exactly why I feel my opinion is valid. :)

>do we really have the right to say they are any more unworthy than anyone else?

I don't think that's what people are saying, is it? I read it that they're equally deserving as anyone else who loses out through no fault of their own. And if the other people don't get a rescue fund, then neither should the Farepak people. That's equality. And at least they still have their homes and jobs and regular income, little though that may be. Unfortunate though their situation is, nobody has explained why this situation is different to any other losses from a company crash.

Mel,

Couldn't have put it better myself. 

--"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged" (7:2).

But no-one is judging the folk who put their money into this scheme. I was merely wondering why there is an appeal fund set up to help them through this crises, when folk who get redundacy get no help at all :)

Surely it should fall to the Directors of the company, who (allegedly) appear to have been merrily syphoning money off for the past few months - prior to it all going pearshaped.

But no-one is judging the folk who put their money into this scheme.

Nor me.  Just saying that it might not be the wisest way to save for Christmas and I choose to support other people. :)

I wish a Happy Christmas to one and all. :D

>Just because we might not agree with the amount people have lost do we really have the right to say they are any more unworthy than anyone else?

I think my comments on the amazement I find in what some people spend at Christmas or how people choose to invest is getting confused with the issue of whether I consider people "unworthy" which I do not.  They are too seperate issues, my amazement being bye the bye because, after all, I recognise there will be people amongst them who would not have spent very much extra at all, very much the widow's mite.  My issue is that charity should be directed in terms of need and like you said yourself lots of other people have suffered bad fortune often worse than this as it involved their income possibly loosing their homes etc. loosing your "extras" just does not seem to me to make you a special case.
I may appear to be camped on the high ground but I haven't always lived in pleasantsville myself, having left home at sixteen and keep myself on a juniors wage I do know what it is to run a very tight ship :)

Where is everyone's compassion.  Who says anyone is right and anyone is wrong.  There is enough bad in the world of today, please don't judge.

Why are people still confusing our confusion as to why this loss is regarded by some as a special case, with a lack of compassion.  Of course we feel great sympathy for the people that have lost out.

I would imagine that the people who have lost with Farepak, are the section of society who can least afford it.  Farepak effectively offered a service at no cost, namely a regular door to door collection. Possibly some of the people saving had no access to high street banking, so savings accounts would be out of the question for them. Likewise transport to a bank/building society may be difficult and costly, especially if you don't have the luxury of a car. Other people saved because it was a friend or relative calling, or it may have been that they looked forward to the weekly call, particularly elderly and housebound.
The average spend (per person) forecast by Mintel this year is £374 for presents, £123 food, £97 alcohol and £205 on entertainment and travel, so irrespective of our individual habits, these figures reflect the Great British public. Given these figures then the individual Farepak losses don't loook abnormal.

On a personal note, I will not be subscribing to any fund for them, as it is just tough luck,  same as if you buy an item on the High Street and the company goes bust before your order is delivered.
Secondly the fault for this collapse is a corporate one and if if companies start to believe that if they behave irresponsibly,someone else will step in, then ultimatley we will all suffer from a lack of future corporate responsibilty.

Average spend - wonder if that is more accurate than average salary which seems to be way above most people's income!  Can never understand them averaging things myself as obviously some people will spend tons more than others and therefore averages are pretty much a waste of time and probably add salt to the wounds of those who can afford the least.