aaaagh! What is it with people! 

Surley if it was a public right of way and dogs are loose and guarding their property you'd have a good case to put in a complaint... sounds totally illegal to prevent use of these paths in that way.  The owners probably think they are clever but if their dogs go for the wrong people and the dogs case damage they won't be laughing!  I might not be getting any support in this but I do think owners of dogs like that who are not controling  them should get a fine...this type only listen when their pockets get stung!  Were these dogs to draw blood they will be facing more worrying consequences then a fine. When dogs are uncontrolled and  defending their property it could get very nasty...sadly it's wise to keep away. ()

All the cases of dog troubles I've heard of locally are genuine accidents...or  'accidents' waiting to happen, or non incidents. So by being more forgiving I mean when a pup challenges the status of a mature dog with a look or a bounce and the older dog warns it off saying don't try it in with me and gives a snarl or a snaps at it and the owner of the youngster says the mature dog attacked their pup who's only a pup and did nothing wrong. That is the most common form of  'attack' I see in our parks and peole get so upset when really it is just normal mature dog telling wee dog how to behave.  The real fights I see or hear of normally invove a new rescue with a first time dog owner who  lets it off and it then attackes anything looking like a dog until the new owner twigs they have a  dog aggressive dog! Or the odd fight between two untrained macho types....or the medium/big people loving wouldn't harm a fly type dogs.. terrier or terrier cross type going 'ratting' and harming or killing small dogs.

The territorial problem you can get in city parks though is packs forming...people meeing up in the same park two or three times each day gather to chat and can have packs of 10 - 15 dogs running arounnd quite unsupervised. The dogs soon see the park as their garden and the other dogs their pack. 
A new dog arrives and all the dogs will turn on the dog and drive it away. We have this in our park ..I try to go at different time so as mant dogs as poss know me and accept my dogs to help make it safer for my dogs and at the ame time stop my dogs feeling they belong to any other pack outside my own . The problem is the people are decent friendly people and recognise their dogs are acting as a pack and realise they are defending their territory...but don't seem to appreciate that is not acceptable!  A new dog comes along and these people are actually proud that their dogs are 'good friends' and see it as defending their owners and their dog friends. To other people it can be quite terrifyling to see their dog being chased by a massive pack..and if they wonder why the dogs chasing off their dog are not being called back it is simple.... as none of these dogs have a decent recall. And if the new dog gets a bite of course there is one unknown face against a big established group who clain the unknown dog started it ( basically by eing unknown :rolleyes: )   Because they walk round and  stay with the pack so don't need a recall sos they all just grab the dogs when it's time to go home...or let the dogs stay free and follow them to the car. If their dogs cause a problem they lways have an excuse. But I think on the whole in parks this is probably quite normal.

I suppose it depends how the owner of the land/farm feels about it - if he even gets to hear about it.  If he is socially minded and believes that people should be able to use the right of way, he might ask his tenants to somehow fence off an area for the terriers.  However, if he's actually quite pleased that someone would be put off crossing his land, he'll just look the other way and have a quiet smile to himself.  I will talk to him about it when I see him but unfortunately I think the solution is to walk elsewhere.

Which is a possibility for me.  We have loads of paths that we can use.  I feel sorry for people who have no choice but to exercise their dogs in the park, where they risk meeting packs of dogs, or even one dog that has come to feel it is his/her territory and you desperately hope people will act responsibly.  Given the choice, I'm sure most people would walk on more open land - seems like it's not just the people who are squashed into a small space!

Interesting :-)

there is a footpath near me that runs adjacent to a farm and there were 2 dogs there that would run out and chase you, one day the dog bit a woman in the bum, everybody was horrifed and the police were called, he has now had to fence of his dogs from the public right of way, much to everybodies relief, things do get done if enough people complain.

Lillith, I have to admire you - I'm afraid if that happened to me, I'd be furious :rolleyes:

If you look at www.northlancing.com you will see a comment on there under Tyto's ramblings about owners not keeping close to their dogs when off lead. I also cannot believe that a dog has passed a good citizen test without having a good recall.  :-(

>I also cannot believe that a dog has passed a good citizen test without having a good recall.

As I have stated before, my dog has a very poor recall as he is extremely independent and is more focused on doing his own thing. However, in class his recall is fine as there is nothing more interesting to him going on. So it is perfectly possible for a dog to have poor recall and still pass the GC test.

My afghan was exactly the same! :(  He gave perfect demonstrations at Fetes etc, just in a straw bale ring, but when I let him off his lead in Windsor Great park, he'd see a bird a mile away and chase it at a fast trot - too fast for me to catch him up - and wouldn't hear a single word that I said!  He wasn't interested in other people or other dogs, just 'hound things'.  And so he would only be let off his lead occassionally, well away from traffic, which, 35 years ago, wasn't anything like it is now.

But if the dog has no recall in certain circumstances surely you would not let the dog off the lead!  This is what the good citizen test is about is teaching responsibility... 

....and if it seemed safe and a distraction arose the training given in good citizen classes better equips you to know how to get the dog back on the lead. 

THere is a big difference in someone with no clue, no prior understanding of dogs and training, motivaton and so on and someone with no knowledge but who takes their dog to training to pass the tests and learns a few basics!  

Surely a few basics skills and knowledge is way better then the buy a pup and let it go concept.

The good citizen award teaches good skills and good levels of resopnsibility and points you in the right directon in training the pup...so after that it is simply a matter of choice to take it all on board or ignore... but it is a good step forward for those who value the awards and training offered and  want to take it seriously.   You do not need perfection but just to minimalise risks through running off, and minimalise the risks of dogs becomming dangerous or antisocial problems to the local community.

How many dogs behave perfectly well at training class (where tests are done) where there are no distractions, but are completely different out in the park or on the beach? Now if the GC tests were done in the middle of a fairground, park full of squirrels and picnics on the grass or field of sheep you might get different results ... ;)

Too true and then we wouldn't have the problem with dogs out of control if they had been tested under these situations and the owners made to put the work in to train their dogs properly in the first place. Sorry, but I have had my fair share of uncontrolled dogs going after mine. It makes me very cross when I know that others have the same problem with people not keeping their dogs under control, when they know they have a problem and don't even try to stop their dog from going after others. :-( 

It is quite possible for a dog to pass the GC test and recall in that situation, after all the dog is recalled from a sit, and not from frolicking around, so already under command (sit or down stay). 

My most independent girl has no problem with this especially in the environment of a show or indoors where these tests are most often held.

Dogs do not generalise, so will do things in one specific situation and not in another.

And even in competitive obedience competitions I've never seen a dog being recalled from a Send-away - only from a Down, so again, under control already.

And how many of these competition dogs are not what I would call obedient (well mannered outside the ring?

Sadly that doesn't seem to be what they're trained for. :( The impression given is that they do specialist obedience, but not general obedience.

Quite a lot B sadly, must admit the lower class competing dogs(ie those still in pre B & Beginners)with Novice handlers are probably the more "Obedient"dogs in many cases.

I think a lot depends on the handler, I know a gorgeous Irish Setter who is the perfect gentleman both inside & outside of the ring(he's just taken his handler out of the lower classes)& on the other hand I know of some "Ticket"dogs that are downright disobedient outside of the ring. I'm glad to say most if not all of my friemds dogs are Obedient as well as Obedience dogs

  Thanks Trisha.