>perhaps I shouldn't in future and should tell the owner that it is a public space and their dog has no rights there

Not quite right though - it's a public space and their dog has every right there - just as yours has. :)

>I feel guilty if a dog jumps all over mine and she tells it off

No, don't feel guilty - good for her! She'll do a better job at socialising another dog than any human ever will, because she speaks the same canine language. :)

If an owner is approaching with a dog on a lead that does not look happy about meeting others then I wouldn't let my dogs approach.  Quite apart from anything else I don't want them getting bitten.  Not that I have to take avoiding action for very long as well socialised dogs soon get to recognise for themselves those that are less agreeable.  But as HG says we should stay on topic ;) and what we are talking about here is not a meeting of two dogs that either were uncomfortable with but rather just a training session being disrupted for a short period of time.  Not something to get too stressed out about, particularly as it is not something that you can ever stop happening.

No of course you shouldn't leave your dog at home Daisy but surely not all dogs bounce all over her?  For the ones that do, you should advise the owner you and/or your dog doesn't like that and they should then remove their dog. :)  I've certainly asked people to put their dogs back on lead before if I feel their behaviour is unacceptable but I don't automatically resent other dogs coming over to say hello.

But why should I have to ask them ?? Last week a dog came bouncing over to my dog - who did not appreciate it and snapped at the other dog. The other dog then went for my dog, despite me holiding her collar and walking away. It was a bit late to ask the owner to remove his dog - particularly as he was still coming across from the other side of the field :( We were minding our own business on the opposite side of the field.

Daisy

Not being nasty Tttatty, but if I felt that way I would never have a dog at all.  Dogs are pack animals, it is natural for them to want to interact and to me it is a part of enjoying dog ownership, especially as I usually have a good natter with the owners too! :)  If I sense or am advised that the owners of other dogs don't want that interaction and especially if their dog is on lead, of course I will put my dog back on lead but I think it is too harsh to keep him on lead permanently in free running areas.

I have a dog but do not appreciate other peoples dogs coming up to me and my dog ruining the good socialisation she has been given.
I also have children and while I adore mine I am not that keen on other peoples - should I not have had children?

I think you are missing the point that by the time you sense that the other people do not want interaction they will have already been forced in to it.

I am happy to be asked BEFORE any interaction has happened ('I normally have my dog free running , I put him on a lead because you have your dog on a lead? - do you mind if I take him off the lead? would your dog like to play?)

Maybe you have not experienced your dog be bowled over by a 'friendly' dog?

I am sure though it depends on where you walk your dog, in my area there are dogs which are OTT, and while maybe being friendly, are sometimes to much for mine when she is surprised.

I wouldn't say that other people's dogs approaching mine ruin good socialisation, in fact I would see it as ongoing good socialisation in most cases.  I've already said that if another dog was on lead, I would always put mine back on lead and in that scenario I would totally agree with what you have said about asking the other owner first before letting the dogs interact.  Oh yes, my dog has been bowled over in the past and if I feel the situation requires it, I have asked other owners to put their dogs back on lead and I've done the same.  You're also right that the area you walk in does tend to colour your opinion on these matters. :) 

I went for a walk on Saturday in local woods which are well used but so large that you often never see another dog. My boys are friendly but not OTT glad to play if the other dog offers but equally happy to have a polite sniff and pass on. Saturday was a VERY good day for them as we met loads of dogs some happy to met and greet and several whose's owners kept them close so I did the same. Zymi had his toy pinched by a Spaniel but he just waited for me to sort it out. Owner retrieved the toy and returned it to Zymi, apologised and we went our separate ways:D

They had a ball with a young working Lab and also had a swim and a game with a Lab and a Lurcher. Later we passed close to 2 Danes when the owner took hold of their collars I called mine in and we passed each other with a greeting.

Having had a Boxer in the past who was attacked many times and became wary of other dogs I can see both sides but I feel we have to guard against causing on going problems by not letting our dogs be dogs.

Don't know if I've been lucky but I can't remember the last time my dogs had a problem of any sort when on  walks. IMO the best way is to mirror the actions of the other owners if they take avoiding action or put their dog on lead I do the same.

One of my greatest pleasures is to watch my dogs meeting other dogs and being dogs :D

IMO the best way is to mirror the actions of the other owners if they take avoiding action or put their dog on lead I do the same.

Very sensible advice. :)

>I also have children and while I adore mine I am not that keen on other peoples

But how do your children feel about other people's children? ;) Surely you allow them to mix and socialise freely? They need input from their 'own kind' to develop normally. :) You've had your period of socialisation - now it's their turn! :D It's the same with dogs. :)

That works very well unless you have a 1.8kg Chihuahua that can get hurt by a lively West High :rolleyes:. I don't mind dogs being off lead as long as they don't threaten my Chi's safety..... he's too small to play with 90% of dogs and he does get scared when a large, playful Labrador comes running towards him. I took him to training classes just so he doesn't feel scared of other dogs and can be relaxed when we go to dog shows. Well, all that training, all that hard work goes down the drain when some irrisponsible owners lets his dog run freely towards us and scares my boy to death. No offence, but I think that even I have the right to walk my dog without being constantly afraid where it's going to hit me ;)....

One of my dalmatians was attacked on one occasion by a pair of chihuahuas, and another time by two papillons. Both times her feet got bitten (drawing blood) yet she didn't retaliate, bless her. The little dogs' owners both thought it was awfully funny. :rolleyes:

Well, I'm certainly not one of those owners that think dog attack is funny!! I would never ever let my dog terrorise anyone... but that's what I expect from other owners as well ;) !

Actually Ory, I usually find that the smaller dogs are often much more brave than the bigger ones! :)  My GR is much less boisterous with smaller dogs - seems to know he needs to be.  Don't think you should label everyone who lets their dog run over to meet yours irresponsible - to me that is just normal dog behaviour.  The owner of the other dog however should be sensitive to your wishes and if you indicate you don't want that, they should immediately remove their dog.

Yeah, I do understand that you get "nasty creatures" in all shapes and sizes , but I am talking about my boy who is very sweet and well behaved. He does not bother anyone and is always on the leash..... now I don't expect everyone to have their dogs on the leash at all times, but I do expect them to have them under control. I let him say hello to other dogs, but only if those dogs are under close supervision or if I know them very well. Chis sometimes don't know how small they are, but you have to understand that they CAN get hurt in a second. If I was selling Chihuahua puppies, I would always make sure that the new owners are aware of the fact just how fragile they can be.

I can understand your concerns Ory and certainly if I saw a dog the size of yours, I would definitely put mine back on lead when approaching.  I think if I owned a dog like yours I would be so worried by every approaching dog that the poor thing would never be on the ground! :)

If someone was clearly training with their dog I would put them on lead to keep them away, and if they ran over before I spotted them I would call them away and go to fetch them if they didn't come (recall still subject to occasional deafness! :-D )

If they looked worried and put their dog on a short lead as I approached I would also put them on lead. But if their dog looked friendly and they were happy I would allow my dogs to go up to them. Obviously if the dog or owner then looked like they didn't want my dogs around I would call them off / fetch them back etc etc. :-)

Er, the 2 Chi's I knew (they live at Rainbow Bridge now ;) ) would put the fear of Dog into any dog bigger than themselves.  It was very funny to see a Great Dane being told off by these fearless 'puppies' :D   and in general they would mix with any dog, but woe betide any dog trying to bounce them, they turned into demons :D :D :D

My own dogs will mix with any dog/s - except Boxers :( which was probably caused by the bouncy uncontrolled Boxer which really scared my oldest one.  They don't hate them, just are very wary until they know what the Boxer will do ;)

I tend to watch out for other people if I'm training - for instance I don't expect my dog to do a down stay if other dogs are about to run  at her. I don't ask  her as  it makes her vulnerable. I allow her to interact with any dog off lead if the other dog is off lead, body language is ok and owner is ok. So she gets lots of socialising which I consider a good thing.

If any other dog is on lead, I always call mine away or close - you never know why a dog is onlead, it may have dodgy hips, be under training, rehab, have just had an op, be aggressive or whatever.

I think therefore the most important thing for me is body language of other dogs, as that can say a lot about whether that dog is sociable, and also being polite and just respecting the fact that if another dog is on lead there is often a good reason :)

Not sure if that helps but it's how I've always done things and it works for us :D

Lindsay
x

>I walk her on a lead and let her off in the park but only if there are no other dogs.<

WHY? Why are you letting the status of other dogs affect your dogs enjoyment? If your dog nips another who comes barrelling over then that is the other dogs and their owners problem,not yours! The other owner has absolutely NO comeback if he let his dog charge over,maybe next time he might think first ;)

I dont even take my dogs leashes with us when we go for a walk,i have never had the need to use them,besides it wouldnt be much of a walk for them or much fun if they were tethered on a lead :(
If a dog comes running over to mine and mine nip them i just tell the owner that my dogs are good at teaching other dogs manners.;)
The other day i saw this woman with her maltese,as soon as she saw us i could see her tense up(from 1/2 a mile away :rolleyes: ),her dog was barking and snarling at my dogs,probably coz the owner was so tense! I said oh for goodness sakes let the dog off her lead,my dogs will let her know if she is annoying them.She said,NO way she will attack them,i still insisted she let her off.Anyway,she didnt and walked away,the dog ended up snapping her lead and came rushing back,however she did not attack,she just had a sniff at my dogs and a bit of a grumble and then walked away.This woman made her dog into a vicious thing when she clearly was not!

All i am saying is,please put your dogs happiness first,mixing with other dogs and running and playing surely is more rewarding for them then a boring old training session?? Cant you do both?

There will always be free dogs running up to others,i expect it and mostly welcome it.No,i dont let mine run up to others while they are on lead,but i do always ask the owner to let their dog off so they can have a play ;) I hate seeing dogs out in a huge field on a short lead,not allowed to run around :)

I dont even take my dogs leashes with us when we go for a walk, I have never had the need to use them,besides it wouldnt be much of a walk for them or much fun if they were tethered on a lead

Whilst it may not be fun for your dogs to be walked on a lead, mine are only too happy to have a lead walk. And no I don't let them off to run around the park/fields either. Thats ok if you have 'velcrose' dogs, or dogs that come when first called, dogs that don't want to play, not forgetting there may be kids in this park/field and won't run over to 'greet' other dogs/kids like mine would given the chance. Its not much fun for you or your dogs' if you have to spend the entire time calling and checking your dogs. If everyone else in the world disappeared and we were on our own then maybe I wouldn't need the leads or long line but in the real world there will always be owners who, like me, like to lead walk the dogs and yes they do enjoy it :) I don't mind other dogs approaching on or off lead, as long as they are friendly, but unfortunately not all dogs are, and not all dogs that are walked off lead are either.

If a dog comes running over to mine and mine nip them i just tell the owner that my dogs are good at teaching other dogs manners.

What if the dog that comes running over to yours,  is the one that nips your dogs? Would you still say thats' ok?

And our training sessions are anything BUT boring :) And if you told me to let my dogs' off the lead to play with yours' I'm afraid the answer would be "No" :)

ll i am saying is,please put your dogs happiness first,mixing with other dogs and running and playing surely is more rewarding for them then a boring old training session?? Cant you do both?

Just wanted to point out that a good training session is a game between owner and dog, not in any way "boring" :D
and some dogs do prefer playing with their owners to being with other dogs.

I agree it's good for dogs to socialise though, just disagree on the "training is boring" bit! :)

Lindsay
x

I agree Lindsay :D

Me too! :D

>Boring old training session<

If thats the case your doing it wrong!!! ;) :P I get Much more woo-woo's and frolicky swirly jumpy c'mon mum lets go!!!! behaviour from my Sibe when I reach for the training lead than his normal walk lead.He's just a little shameless show-off (like his mum?... begs the reply! ;))

>boring old training session??

Crikey, a boring old training session????? What's one of those?

Seriously, my dogs love training, the eyes are alight waiting command, tail wags on heel work, eyes watching for the next move and we break off for a good old play and a few scenting games.   As for other dogs, forget it, they are too busy enjoying themselves........ with us! :-D :-D

Sorrry Loanerwhelk :(
(I did try to stem the Segue to a different issue :rolleyes:)
But your topic of interuption whilst training..well Im with you :D
I dont let it get to me tho' (Im trying to keep Daisy's signature upmost in my mind, its a good one so true!!)even though I own my land,and there is no public right of way so its very hard then!! (Im the only landowner that doesnt put up 'Private property' signs as Im happy to see others but the ones that leave my gates open,walk off after their dogs have stolen my dogs ball from his mouth do test my patience.. to me its just good manners and a little fore thought for others, which is easily done and costs nothing. Some decry the loss of morals in this country (oh! that was another locked thread ;) )..to me it started when we lost our manners :(

That's OK HuskyGal - I had no idea that my post of Saturday would result in so much interest and spark such debate, particularly as it's quite a common topic. I had decided to make a tactical withdrawl as I was beginning to see nothing positive coming out of it all and I felt rather unfairly judged. However, I have to make my point - in my mind, the issue was not about where I chose to do some training (although I thought I was doing the right thing by going as far from both entrances as possible AND the park was quiet at the time), it is not about dogs socialising  - I have had enormous pleasure watching my dog play with others, it is not about unrealistic expectations from training in a public place, in my mind its just plain and simple MANNERS and a bit of COMMON SENSE.  To make something perfectly clear, this other owner made the decision to approach me whilst I was focussed on my dog and DID NOT CALL IT AWAY WHEN CAUSING ME A PROBLEM. IF I had seen him first, I would have realised that further training would be pointless and unfair to my dog who just wanted to play. I was practically pulled off my feet and the whole performance looked farcical. That's all I expect from other people, is common sense and manners - something I always try to afford others.

I've learnt a lot from Champdogs over the last year, part of which has been doggy ettiquete, ie. erring on the side of caution when one sees a dog on a lead, that being for my own safety as well as others, but I must admit that much of this topic has just made me feel unfairly judged. I am no fool, always willing to accept advice, particularly from people who have had dogs for years, but this has just made me question whether its worth posting topics much now as it seems that people are so ready to judge and think the worst and assume I haven't a grain of common sense.  I'm sure I can't be the only person who feels like this.  Having said all this though, I do appreciate the small number of replies who are happy to say they agree.  Debate is good, but not when it gets judgemental.

No loanerwhelk, you are not the only person to feel like this ;) I've also learnt a lot from CD - usually things like hitting the 'delete' instead of 'post' buttons :P :P
And it is worth posting topics, if you can't talk or moan to champdoggers' about dogs who can you talk to? :D

Thanks Missie ..... I really don't want to sound sorry for myself and bleating on - its always good to have peoples' opinions about things because that's often how you learn and appreciate the whole picture.  Its just annoying when I feel people are making assumptions that I didn't consider other people and their dogs' enjoyment of the public space.:rolleyes:

It's a very difficult dilemma, isn't it? Other people's dogs coming over to yours spoils your enjoyment, and preventing other people's dogs coming over spoils their enjoyment. Nobody's enjoyment takes precedence. That's the trouble with not owning your own land! ;)

Its just annoying when I feel people are making assumptions that I didn't consider other people and their dogs' enjoyment of the public space.

I certainly didn't think that loanerwhelk :) and having kept my dog on a long lead in the past, I know just how stupid and frustrated you feel when they drag you half way across the park! :p

I know just how stupid and frustrated you feel when they drag you half way across the park!

Ha ha. been there, done that :D :D :D

Think we probably all have Missie, that's why we enjoy seeing it happen to someone else :D

:D :D ;)

Even better when it is muddy and you can 'ski' across on your wellies!

Or fall flat on ya face LOL

Don't worry...you will soon get there with your training. To be able to enjoy using public spaces we need to get our dogs to high level of recall... no matter how exciting the other dogs are and no matter how much they jump on ours we needed to be able to say 'sit' or 'down' 'come' or even if we like 'go play'...

I've been battling with this since Jan and even last week was in despair because I am not getting this level of recall from one of my young dogs... but a few weeks a go I had it click...once... and then back to normal and then  last week it seemed to click again and for a week I say 'leave' 'come' and no matter how much the other dogs run up and jump on him he is all mine!   Well almost! It's a great step forward and he is almost 16 months old.  I thought I'[d never get there.  So now if he keeps this off I can soon walk him off lead which I do not do all that much up to now.

A tip on the long line... in a public area this is not always so  good to use because it can be a danger to dogs getting tied up in it. I tried using one in the past and people complained when their dogs came up and got tied up in the long lead!   So although ideally they maybe should be under better control and not run up to my training space.... but other people have a different idea about how to keep dogs and they just want to roam around and see their dog play and have fun and even if they have to spend time catching the dog at the end of their plat time so long as they still have a dog with them to take home they are delighted with their dog training skills. That is all many people aren't.

If you want to train the dog you are the one who is different so you have to try to show your dog is obedient no matter what the level of distraction...it is a big challenge but ideally this is why we train ...to meet these type of challenges.  So often when we get frustrated with others really we are frustrated with our own slow progress. If I am honest that's how it works with me anyway.

In theory dogs must be under control in public areas...but the understanding of control is very loose. Mostly it just means don't let your dog eat other peoples kids or pets.  some places do on the spot £50 fine of people don't clean up.  If we complain about loose dogs too much soon we will be like too many parts of  the USA and have to keep all dogs on the lead in public areas...so we have to decide what we want most. We... ..before we get leash laws I'd hope for dog wardens testing us and  asking us to recall our dogs ..if we can't get them on a lead by ...ooooh...let's be generous.... the 6th call then we get a £50 fine. I'd be quite happy with that being introduced by our councils.

ON the public areas issue... we share these spaces...but when we are using a fair amount of space people should respect that. If people are playing foottie we shouldn't go play ball with our dogs in that space.. if people are having a picnic we shouldn't set up a footie match around their picnic and so on. In parks it is our space on a first come first serve basis and when people respect each others space and do not invade that space people al get along fine. So your space was your self-designated training space for your training session and the other people should apologise for invading your space with an uncontrolled dog...ideally.  I'm sure normally you find most people do..

Anyway..watch out for these dogs and use them possitevely as training challenges to teach your dog to focus on you and not them. Funny when I want to do distractiuoin training and want these kind of dogs to show up they don't! lol! Then people appologise and I want to tell them no I need your dog to do this s I can train mine...but I can't say anyting because if I break my concentration on my dog I loose his focus..so I look rude but I don't mean to nbe. 

What I see emerging is a them and us scenario. The park I use is a fantastic little area - not huge, but the village is small and so, I guess, the number of people using it is small. I am beginning to recognise that most people just let their dogs off to do what they want. I have done exactly the same and enjoyed watching my dog have fun exploring and playing. However, when my dog did a disappearing act (she thinks she's a bird) and clarted over through the neighbouring field into a nearby golf course, I felt it was time to regain some control. I have since learnt that quite a few dogs have done the same, but their owners seem to think it would never happen again:rolleyes::rolleyes:. I don't want to take the risk myself, and so knuckled down to basics.  I'm beginning to think I'm the only one around here who is bothered about off lead control.  You can't win really!

At the end of the day there are no hard and fast rules.  I don't see a them and us, I see that everyone is different and so think and act differently.  You have to take the rough with the smooth and accept that none of us are perfect and consequently neither are our dogs.

There is no point in dwelling on it. 

Yu sound like me with my first dog. the pressure was all let your dog off to play from a small pup! Whivh I did and he was great until his confidence grew and he suddenly realised he didn't have to come back if he didn't want to.  And I wanted better then that. I very quickly got me a reputation as a the dog trainer the dog whisperer and all sorts..lol... so now with my new dogs I am more interested in finding out about the other more indepth sides to dogs...as a beginner.  But I fine really I am neither suited to one extreem or the other! But I like dogs I can love, play with and feel proud of.... basically they are my dogs and so I do with them what I want and dabble at a few things and train and play with my dogs as I like in the park. .  But here I am in a city and the park is the same as you describe... seems wherever you go there is always an 'in crowd'  lol! And I'm never one of them! lol! But many people are like me but you don't get to meet them as they walk quietly around and focus on their dogs so you don't get to meet them hat much. 

One of the local untrained dogs ran off to play with another dog and they ran out of the park area into a road and were hit by a car. One was killed. They have new pups now and are still not interested in teaching a good  recall.

isn't all this a commonsense issue though? only i'm afraid i'm one of those people who like their dog to socialise with others. that's not to say he's allowed to tear over and terrorise anyone else's dog (or indeed tear over to them like an out of control eejit!)  but, to be honest, most of his doggy manners have been acquired by meeting and playing with other dogs without the need for formal introductions or completing a compatibility survey first! of course he has met dogs who don't want to play but either their owners have made this clear in a friendly way "he's rather grumpy", for example (and have their dog on a lead anyway because of this) or the dog itself has shown no interest and nips has received the message without me rushing around like a banshee insisting that every dog in sight is put on its lead!

i woudn't dream of encouraging him to interrupt someone's training session but equally, i'd question whether a public place was the best place to carry out training if it is going to cause such conniptions!

there's times when i wonder whether nowadays we're inclined to do too much analysing over our dogs and are in danger of over-complicating the relationship that we have with them and the relationships they have with other dogs. but i'm prepared to duck back into the pond....;)

Interestingly I have noticed a real difference in the sociability between those dogs I had when we lived in a town and they were walked in local public parks and those I have had since moving out to the countryside where they are either walked on our own land or along miles of largely empty riverbank. In town I would regularly meet up with the local 'doggy gang' and the dogs would hare about together whilst we all mooched along putting the world to rights. My Belgians just LOVED chasing around with the border collies we met up with but kept things VERY respectful with the huge hairy GSD's that a fellow dog walker had and the pack of 'yorkshire terrorists' that belonged to another dog walker  who would come haring over yapping at the sight of my lot. A sweet Staffy bitch would always want to wash any new pups ears before setting off and we werre regulalrly joined by a huge range of shapes and sizes - great fun and greatly missed. Yes there were a few times when tempers were lost ( usually over a toy or ball) but no real damage was ever done and everyone just accepted that they were dogs doing their doggy thing. My youngsters all grew up knowing the subtle codes of dog behaviour and learning the rules - and believe me young Belgians DO bounce and mine have had many a telling off and been firmy put in their place.

The countryside is great and no I would never move back but I really miss this natural interaction and my new bunch are much less relaxed around strange dogs. Having said that it sounds as if those types of social gatherings are now few and far between - such a shame .

Yvonne

By the way whats a conniption ? LOL :D

Conniption
It's a smasher

Doing my best to memorise that one, conniption, conniption, conniption, conniption :D

I have a feeling it has found a home here :)

All right, so what's wrong with having an old fashioned blue fit then?  Not being pretentious are we? :D :D (or is it more of that finesse?!)

Nothing from the Lost Colonies can be described as having finesse ;) but this one could be fun :D

pretentious, moi?!! pshaw! i feel a conniption coming on. ;)

:D :D  Connipt away my dear!

teacher hat coming on now:

Past tense = connipted
present = conniption
future = connipt

OOOH LOVE it ! :D :D :D

Yvonne