have to admit didn't know it had a bone, i knew about the enlarged bulbis and the tie but again dogs in the park, on walks or whereever irresponsible owners have them still manage a good mating with no problems. I really am wondering whether interference is really that necessary, isn't it the owners presence that is causing them to become stressed? We are all subjects of modern times, all domestic animals and humans alike yet most don't need assistance when it comes to reproduction, more the other extreme where people aren't nearly careful enough and don't get their pets spayed thus resulting in unwanted, unassisted litters.

Well the same could be said for human beings, but we still choose to have antenatal care and deliver in a safe environment with experts to hand rather than squat in a field to produce our young.

In my own breed we try to keep things as natural as possible, but I have had my own bitch and a visiting bitch panic as soon as tied and it is all I can do to hold tight to stop injury, thankfully the males were experienced so didn't need holding during the tie.

I have also been to a mating in a tall guarding breed which was the first time for the male.

The bitch would have happily have killed the male if she had not been muzzled.  She was very ready and was showing willingness when stimulated by her owner and had been blood tested, but as a dominat girl she did not want to be submitting to this young unknown male.

He poor love was obviously aroused but needed to be gently guided.  Then he felt the urge to turn, and he or the bitch could easily have overturned if one person had not helped place his front legs down and another eased his long legs over the bitch.

So there were actually four people managing the mating.

I helped with a future mating of him to an experienced bitch, and it only needed two of us, she was standing like a rock, and he knew what to do, yet while turning they did get their legs a little tangled and nearly fell over.

Humans have a little more understanding what is going on and know not to run away still attached ( know that cant happen but you get my point)

What ever happened to  nature taking its course, dogs have evolved over thousands of years and are pretty much perfect at what they do, is it not interference, line breeding etc... that is causing them to become unable to do what should come so naturally.

If that's what you think, why don't you just let the bitch out on the streets and let her chose who to mate to and when....... :rolleyes:

because i paid for a kc registered animal and wish to mate her with good breeding again kc resgistered, surely you would accept that i do have some resposibility, you seem to be implying i am happy to breed mongrels

One thing that might make us a little more comfortable about what you are doing and more inclined to assist you is if you would answer the query about what health tests have been carried out and what results were obtained?

Of course, if the stud dog owner isn't present and doesn't witness the mating, he/she can't sign the registration form so the litter can't be registered anyway - unless the stud owner lies and commits fraud ... and that's not a very responsible attitude to breeding.  :(

Damage can be done to both the dogs and bitches reproductive equipment.  A panicking bitch can bite a dog, or bones can be broken if the bitch decides to roll.  Plenty can happen :(

My first litter was from an accidental mating. The dog and the bitch were in the back garden, tied -long story. I came out via the back door, the bitch saw me and started to run towards me. Whilst still tied. Needless to say, the next thing that happened was a visit to the vet late at night and 2 injured dogs -it took 3 days before the male dog's penis stopped bleeding, it was horrendous and very painful for both. Thankfully neither were SERIOUSLY injured but that was just luck.

I have a  bitch who does try to run off as soon as tied, when she was mated last month it took two of us to hold her and a third person to hold the dog, and it was the most painful 20 minutes each time I can remember, she's a very stong dog and having to stand bent down holding on for dear life to avoid injury if she moves, in the mud and pouring rain as well, really does get to you and the back! I'd never EVER consider mating a bitch without there being at least 2 people present to help out as each dog does need holding. Fair enough if it's a really tiny breed then maybe it's possible.........but 4 hands would still be safer!

Clair,

I think it was very irresponsible of the stud's owner to leave his dog with someone who has never mated, after all his dog could get hurt in the process never mind your bitch.

I agree with others comments this is not the way to go about things.

He is in a strange place for a start, with a stranger, the need to mate will come second I should think, he will eventually mate with her, but you need to be there to make sure that he can get off and turn around properly without hurting himself or your bitch, do you know how to do this? I'm not being judgmental, I just can't believe that someone has left their stud with a newbee, that is just unbelievable to me.

Taking the time to do health checks etc and then leaving a novice to do the mating is beyond belief and not responisble breeding at all.:-(

So Clair, you obviously took no notice of the good advice that you were given in May last year (see http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=506385;hl=;hlm=and#pid506385).

You asked questions about mating then - and we all took great pains to give you information - and I suggested that you read The Book of the Bitch.   You have taken no notice of any of the excellent information given to you then - so I really do not see why we should waste our time going through it again when you are not taking a blind bit of notice of any of it.:rolleyes:

I didn't read all of Clair's replies before and just answered the original questions, no way on this planet should you be breeding, back yard breeding isn't the word. What are you thinking of Clair?

You don't even know the basics of dog mating and basically just wanted to leave them to it.

Both of you should not be breeding, and should leave it to the proffessionals, for obvious reasons.

I despair.:rolleyes:

I dont reply to many posts on Champ Dogs, but been a member for ages. I have a stud dog, and he will only mate in my house, Im the only one who can read my dog, when he's getting too excited and I need to either push him off and start again, or take him away from her for a few minute's or to call it a day :rolleyes:. It's not easy being a stud dog owner as the bitch can bite the dog, try and run away, and Ive had one fall asleep and tried to lie down, when tied . I have bitch's coming to my house from all over the country and I give them B&B if required

If I was you, I would take the stud back to his owner and get him to help the stud and you hold the bitch. Never let them go as it might cause damage and not a pleasant sight, (never happened with my stud, but seen it happen).
Yes you do hear about dog's mating no bother , with noone there, but I would never let my lad line any bitch, unless she is held, muzzled (if need be) and it happen's at my dogs house.

All the best

I do not want to go on and on about the health testing but can you tell us what health tests both dogs have had?  You know which ones they should have as they are listed in this post.

Are you ready in a years time if the pups have any of the problems and the new owners want to sue?  This is something that you should be worried about as believe me Britain is turning into America where some people will sue for anything.

This actually shouldn't be the reason why you test your dogs, you should test them to know that you are doing the best that you possibly can for the breed, but it definitely needs thinking about.

As the question still hasn't been answered re. the health tests I presume that they haven't been done?  I could be wrong but if they were my dogs and they had been done I would have no problems in replying with the results.

Probably not been done because in their natural state dogs would not be health tested, same as matings would not be supervised

i would take the stud back home, do some more research and then if you feel comfortable and confident and do the relevent tests, then take your bitch to the stud. you shouldnt have to ask all these questions if you were ready to breed your bitch.

To be honest the bitch is getting too old for a first litter anyway, as she was 4, 10 months ago.

oh right wasnt aware of that extra detail, ta Brainless.