every body has their own prefrence when showing their dogs . i tend to bait mine with cheses or carrot soaked ingravey over night and if all else fail then the slight tiping of a treat or toy is used.

Mats arent just used for Boxers... I often use a mat if on a slippy surface and know loads of people in many breeds that use them! Sometimes i also spray there feet with sticky spray or just damp there feet with a sticky drink...works a treat! One of my bitches is really bad for slipping no matter what you do!

As for showing bitches in season.. i have done it on many occasions and rarely has it upset others, i just try to keep them out of the way as much as possible. Why should a bitch lose out on a good chance of winning? You may not be able to go under that judge for a very long time and you may no the judge likes your bitch! Although some people can be in considerate when it comes to bitches in heat why should they lose £20 just for a misfourtune.. you cant predict exactly when she will come in season! I supose if they were to say money will be refunded if you are unable to take a bitch due to it being in season well people who may decide just not to take them for other reason could just say the bitch is in season can i have my money back! Well i think the Societies would lose alot of money from it and wouldnt be very happy!

I reckon yes they should be aloud to be taken to a show but owners must be responsible and when ever possible kept away from other dogs. One of my males shows better when he can smell a bitch as it makes him more alert and full of himself! But i do appreciate both sides of the debate!

Boxers aren't the only breed to use the little mats/beer mats or towels
to stop slipping in the ring when stood.

But I also know that people use 'spray on' tacky paws from cans.
So perhaps thats what other breeds exhibitors use to stop their dogs slipping??
Which isn't as obvious to the eye as the mats some of us exhibitors use?

I have seen no KC rules to say that you can't use mats to stop your dog slipping.
I will continue to use my mat for my dogs where & when I need to
and live and let live to all those that want to show their dogs to best advantage
and to those that don't like it c'est la vie.
We all have different opinions on how to get the best out of our dogs and as long
as I don't drop bait in the ring or use other exhibitors as target practise regardless of
their breed I can live with myself and my own conscience of showing with a mat if my dogs need it
:D

A Proud Boxer exhibitor that behaves sportingly with baiting
I don't waste my bait on the floor I make sure my dogs eat it :D

I'm not criticising, Boxacrazy, only curious. :) I don't know anyone in my breed who has problems with their dog's feet slipping on the carpet (except their own when cornering!) so have no need to use mats or sprays or anything. But then my breed isn't stacked. Perhaps that's where the difference lies - the dog puts its feet where they feel secure. (Ideally where the toes of the hind feet are directly below the furthest-rear point of the thigh/body.)

Or maybe it's tradition - rather like the Yorkies with their boxes.
:)

:D :D  Images of boxacraxy, taking her boxers around the ring "hoovering" up the bits :D :D

I can just imagine the crazy boxers I know - bouncing around, trying to get all the bits up :D

Margot

:d :d  Love your reply Boxacrazy. 

Spanishwaterdog anyone who is out there showing and paying champ show entry fees and the cost of diesel is out to win, yes I am out there to get CC's if possible if I wasn't then I would stick to open shows if I just wanted a day out and I make no apologies for that and neither you nor anyone else will make me feel bad about that. If you don't want to show a bitch in season that is your perrogative if I or anyone else does that is our perrogative. No one should be made to feel they are doing wrong. I know many people in many breeds and yes they all enjoy catching up with friends and seeing other dogs but when they go in the ring they go in to win. I would add I would'nt take an in season bitch to an open show where there are mixed sexes in a class but a champ show is different.

Not on either side here but canI ask why you consider it OK for a champ show and not for an open? Its not just the scent of a nearby bitch in season but the lingering scent left by her that makes my lot stick their noses to the ground so even if you're in the day before the dogs in the ring on the following days will still be affected by the bitch in season.
Archer

I have to say that I'm shocked that a bitch being in season and then losing her coat makes her miss most of the shows during the year!  Can't see this myself and most of us know when they are going to be in season or about the time and when they are going to lose their coat.

Have to say I suppose that it doesn't bother me nowadays as I'm in a breed that doesn't lose their coat and in the last year have shown males.  Think I'd better leave it at that and not start another discussion which will be stopped.

I'm not stopping anyone from showing their in season bitch but it's just not for me.

Perrodeagua AKA spanishwaterdog

I have never shown a bitch in season, and would never do it. BUT that is my choice. I had a bitch that would come in to season every 17-20 weeks, so I really never knew when she was due in. Yes, it cost a fair bit in entry fees but I wasn't showing big time then. I've done more shows this past year or two with her grandson than I ever did with her, and I can see the problems first hand regarding bitches in season. At some shows I have a major battle to keep his nose up. I have paid my money and expect to be able to show my dog without a battle every time there has been a bitch in season in the ring before us. Why should I lose out, just because someone wants to show a bitch that should be left at home?

Thinking about this - I wonder if the answer would be to have separate sex rings?    I know that would mean an awful lot of work for organisers, having additional judges (1 for each sex - believe it does happen in some breeds in any case) abd that a showground can only accomodate a certain no of rings and if 2 rings are going to have to be allocated to each breed, provided they male/female only rings are adhered to, it might mean that those of us who do have coated breeds could show our bitches when their coats are at their optimum, - generally just as they are about to come into season - as well as not having the dogs distracted!

Still doesn't help with the cheese & liver cake though ;)

Margot

Showing a bitch in season is something I don't undertake doing lightly but there are ways of keeping your bitch segregated at a Championship show which you can't do at an open show where the venues are smaller and the classes are mixed sex classes.

At a single breed club championship show, dogs are judged before bitches and no scents will be in the ring so there shouldn't be a problem.  I have a male dog and he is very interested in the opposite sex but I have no difficulty in keeping his head up to show and to gait him, he knows he is in the ring and what is required of him from me.

When my Mia drops her coat, she drops it right down to 'the wood'  and it takes her 3-4 months to regrow something half decent, luckily her seasons are usually once every 9 months but then the way CC's are allocated in my breed means that the champ show season for us starts with WELKS and finishes at Midland Counties - around 6 months of shows...so yes, she could be out for most of them if she timed her season for around Feb/March.

Must say that Loki (and now Vinnie) don't just remove coat - they remove undergarments as well

Could then enter smooth-haired collie class - or even giant Chiuahwah!!

Margot

Archer only because at open shows both sexes are in the ring together and ringside space is very cramped, whereas at champ shows there is a lot more room to keep a bitch segregated from the crowd, also entry fees are only a few pounds and can afford to be lost. I know there is a scent left behind in the ring but there are other scents left in a ring from other exhibitors, as already mentioned bait, dogs toileting in the ring these all distract dogs and bitches.  I am showing a dog who has been used at stud and he can smell a bitch a mile off and it is difficult to control him but that doesn't give me the right to dictate what someone else should do with their bitch. No one is right and no one is wrong with their opinion on this subject just don't make people feel bad when they show a bitch in season. Dog showing is supposed to be a hobby, nuff said.

<<<<<No one is right and no one is wrong with their opinion on this subject just don't make people feel bad when they show a bitch in season. Dog showing is supposed to be a hobby, nuff said.>>>>
Where did I try and make people feel bad...I posed a polite question as I said I am on neither side...is it too much to ask for a polite answer?I only show as a hobby....I don't own champions and I don't breed.
Archer

Archer I did answer your question politely I just decided to add my final comments to all who had responded to what I had to say previously. However if any offence was taken I apologise.

Accepted ...thankyou
Archer

Good :)

The kenenl club has for the last close to 15 years allowed the spaying of bitches and their exhibition even if not bred from. 

You don't need permission just to inform them.  Before that an exhibit could be neutered and permission would be granted for it to be shown as long as it had registered progeny. 

Both much more progressive than msot countries where neutered animals are not allowed to be shown or only in veteran classes.

All mine are spayed once their breeding life is over.

I'#s more like 23/24 years for dogs without progeny being granted permission to be shown as my girl was spayed in 1982 & had no progeny she was done for medical reasons & they changed the rules either july 81 or 82 re progeny. They dropped the medical reasons some what later

May I add how refreshing it is to see so many of us here who can see both sides to this - not only the "in season" but the baiting etc. We all do whatever we can to get the best results from our dogs, and dont always consider that what seems quite natural for us can be someone elses bugbear. I have a terrier breed, and sometimes ringside, (or in adjoining rings) there can be a bit of, shall we say terrier spirit between dogs, and sad to say, it gets all exhibits on their toes and showing at their best, so one mans meat is another mans poison!

Absoloutely Fillis - and if you have a breed where expression and alertness are vitally important then you will lose out if you DON'T bait your dogs. In my breed the difference between a baited and unbaited dog can be remarkable and most of us do throw stuff around to get the dogs to pull themselves up and use their ears. ( and yes we do pick it up afterwards) - to be honest there is also quite a bit of discreet double handling that goes on too ;) and  personally I see nothing wrong with this as long as other exhibitors are not being inconvenienced.

Yvonne

This is thread has been great to read and has really intrigued me.I've never shown my dogs(boxers :o ) but i have loads of questions after reading your posts,sorry Which have been very diplomatic and pleasant,might i add :D

In regards to the baiting,i'm a bit confused when you say it gets 'flinged' aound the ring,dont the dogs go flying after it? Why dont the exhibitors hold it infront of the dogs nose and then feed it to him?

Dont in season females blow their coat and look a bit off when theyre in season?Does this not wreck their chances a little?Some people said they dont want to lose their fee's,but dont you know when your females are due in season?

Just say you werent allowed to show spayed females,how would the judges know if she was spayed or not?

Last question,what does double handling mean?

I have heard people with in season females add chlorophyll to their dogs drinking water and this greatly reduces the odour.Dont know how true it is though.

I look forward to your replies :)

Dont in season females blow their coat and look a bit off when theyre in season?Does this not wreck their chances a little?Some people said they dont want to lose their fee's,but dont you know when your females are due in season

NO.   Bitches coats will drop their coats about the same time they would do if they had been mated and produced a litter.   And no some bitches aren't easy to predict in season, my 10 year old only had 5 months between her last 2 seasons and she has never come into season that early in her life before.   And what do you do if you know your bitch is in season and it is around the same time that a judge you really want to enter under is judging your breed?   

Hypothesis:   If a judge had judged your bitch as a youngster back in 2002 and given her a RCC, then said judge is judging this year and your bitch is mature but in season, what do you do?  Do you wait until this judge judges again (And your bitch might be in season at that time too!) not knowing when their next appointment is????

Oi! What a dilemma

I do want to say how much i commend you show goers,travelling miles and miles every weekend,all that grooming and not to mention the expense,i just wouldnt have the energy for it :o

Thanks for answering my question Christine :)

A bitch in season usually has a fab coat! Its a couple of months later that the coat deteriates. My breed is never supposed to be "out of coat" as such, but thereis a marked difference. Taking this into account, as a rough average, a bitch would only be shown 3 months out of 6 if not shown when in season.

In most baited breeds like my own the titbit is used to attract/distract the dog and fed to them.  The dog usually looks best when anticipating you getting the bait out of your pocket or bumbag.  It is nevewr thrown in our breed as it would do exactly what we don't want them to and that is look on the ground for it.  We bait because ours is a scenting breed who would otherwise prefer to sniff the ground even when moving.  I do object to bait being thrown, as with the best will in the world some will not be picked up in a grass ring especially.

Likewise in my breed, Brainless. They tend to look most alert when you merely put your hand in your pocket. Often they'll show beautifully to a judge who does that!

Basically if someone else's dog reacts to your baiting your dog, you've not got the technique right! (One of my bugbears is the use of squeaky toys - my dog will have his attention on me, then a squeak from nearby completely distracts him. Grrr!
:)

You can get chlorophyl tablets and capsules which do reduce odur, not just bitch odour.

Bitches can be very unpredictable.  The one I mentioned that had missed our club show (we only have one UK club show with CCs) and was shown when she had just finished had a season at 8 months old, then only 16 weeks later, then 20 weeks and this time only 18 weeks.

This bitch has been doing rather well gaining her Junior Warrant and 2RCCs with her first CC on Monday. 

I have been extremely lucky that I only missed the one show with her in season.  I did take her to her first UK show about 3 days in though at 8 months.

If she comes in 4 to 6 months from her last season she is likely to miss many of the remaining CC shows (we only have two before that I am likely to go to before she might) and then we won't have anything in the latter part of the year, she could easily Miss the shows in August, and that will be it for the rest of the year as I am planning to mate her (hoping to settle her seasons a bit more).  She won't then be fit to be seen until ehr Pups are five months old.  Bitches loose all their coats at about 2 to 3 months after theri litters are born, right down to the skin, this then takes at least two months to regrow to a state where they can be seen.

Her Mum who came in just after and was mated two weeks ago came in after 27 weeks but the previous time had gone35 weeks and in the past hass gone as litel as 20 weeks between seasons.

I have found that bitches with average season intervals of 6 to 8 months drop their coats 3 to 4 months after their season, and they are likely to be unshowable for about a month and as has been said probably about theri best just around their next season.

I tend to find that a bitch mentally will be a bit flat just after a season.

My breed only has one UK club as well.

It is quite funny so far she has missed both club championship shows since she was old enough to be shown being in season, and I couldn't get a lift to the club Open one last September, and may have to miss this years too if she is mated or in season by then.  Wonder if we will make it with ehr next year?

I bait my dogs with food but throw other things, like toys, grass, leaves etc, if necessary.  These don't leave smells on the grass to distract following dogs.  For my girls just putting a piece of food in and out of my pocket is usually enough to make them look where it's gone!

But if someone flings bait/food around the ring wont their dog and any other dogs in the vicinity fly off after the food and be completely distracted?

I just cant get the picture straight in my head :p An exhibitor is leading their dog around the ring throwing food in all directions,what a site that would be,LOL!

The food isn't used when moving the dogs but when standign them as the judge is trying to get the best view of the dogs and their alertness and expressions.  If a judge is long in thought you can be standing your dog for several minutes praying it doesn't move (and spoil it's outline by sitting or standing badly) just as the judge is looking at it. :D

With our breed just looking at the bait and standing still is rarely enough - breed judges often look for 'pick up' -which is when the dog shortens it's back, raising the withers as well as arching the neck and pulling the ears right in close. The effect of this can make a mediocre dog look good and a good dog look stunning. You cannot usually get this effect when the bait is simply held in front of the dog but need the dog to really look out for it i.e. on the ground ( which arches the neck beautifully) or look out of the ring for it's owner - who usually moves around discretely keeping the dog in this heightened state of interest while the judge is looking ( this is what I mean by double handling - some breeds do this in a much more overt and intrusive way). New comers to our breed often train their pups in the standard ringcraft way and are then puzzled when the rest of the ring is showing in a very different fashion. the reasoning behind this style is that a BSD should be a breed with loads of sparkle and 'look at me ' attitude but have a high boredom threshold - for most of them (especially the youngsters) just standing looking at your pocket just doe'snt cut it for them :)

Yvonne

Can't you achieve that by pretending to through the bait down.  If you practiced at home really throwing it down so the dogs expectation was there I'm sure they would look for it in the same way.

Hi Isabel :)

>Can't you achieve that by pretending to through the bait down<

You could do it once, maybe twice, but BSDs are bright enough to work out something that simple so it wouldn't help for long :P  :P :P

Teri  

Not even my tweedle dee and tweedle dum are daft enough to fall for something like that more than once :)

Whilst understanding how frustrating it can be to find that a bitch has come into season just when you are hoping to attend a much awaited show. I feel it is extremely unfair on the exhibitors of male dogs as their owners too have spent a lot of money in entries and fuel to enter under a much awaited judge, only to have their day spoiled because of the distractions of a well in season bitch! Perhaps if the owners of said bitches were all a little more considerate about keeping their bitches away from the males, it wouldn't be so bad, but sadly this is not always the case.

The suggestion that it is only the less experienced males who have a problem is totally untrue as I have had multi CC winning dogs throw their chances because they have had an in season bitch wafted right under their nose.

Not so bad if the owners of in season bitches were thoughful enough to keep their bitches out of they way of the males, but often they flaunt them ringside whilst the males are in or around the ring, waiting to go into their class.
I am sick and tired of my males being driven to distraction by an in season bitch on the bench next door to them. Not a 'one off' occurrence, but has happened on several occasions and always the same exhibitor!

Perhaps in breeds that are crated and can then be moved off the benches, this may not be such a problem and perhaps in breeds who can be stacked, rather than freestood and baited, this may not be such a problem, but for the rest of us, it is totally unfair.
IMO it is about time the KC took a leaf out of the rules of other countries and disallowed any in season bitches from attending dog shows.

I know you have picked up an old thread but it is a valid point , i had the same trouble at crufts this year and have had it at previous shows , it may not have affected the outcome of the placings but it does make a dog that much harder to handle and its not funny in my breed due to the size also other bitch owners whos dogs arent in season get hassle from  over exicted dogs which they dont appreciate either if people could be a little more concious of the trouble this causes and keep in season bitches away from the ring until the bitch classes start it would make a lot of difference

Agreed, keeping in season bitches away from the ringside until the males were finished would be a start but it still does nothing to help those of us who have to cope with our males benched right next to an in season bitch. At such close range, no amount of antimate tablets or sprays is going to mask the smell, especially if the bitch is at the height of her season.

I heard ringside some time ago (not my breed by the way ;-) ) that someone was deliberately sitting ringside to put off the dogs in a certain class They wanted a friends dog to win so obviously moved away when he was being judged :-( It didn't really work, though. The friends dog was also interested in the smell :-)

Think if you are considerate it should be acceptable to take an inseason bitch to a Championship show but to bench them next to a male when you have a choice or to take them to an open show is very selfish. Once had to ask a steward to mop the straw coloured blood off the floor before we took our dogs into open dog, she did but it did not really help, I guess the bitch owner was after a JW and s*d the rest of us.

It is not just males a bitch in season upsets the bitches and no happy about it either.

I must admit I find  this attitude very strange. I usually do agility shows and whilst in season bitches are not allowed to compete people do take them to the shows and they are allowed round the camping areas. Most agility people seem to take the attitude that the dogs should be trained to ignore this.

If a dog can be trained to run an agility round with this distraction, surely he can be trained to stand still in a showring?

> If a dog can be trained to run an agility round with this distraction, surely he can be trained to stand still in a showring?

I'm not 100% sure about agility but i'd imagine (hate this term) "show dogs" are used at stud more often than agility dogs? Please do correct me if i am wrong as said i don't know much about agility stud dogs etc

Obviously the Kennel club must have considered this aspect over the years, as in season bitches are banned from Obedience shows, but not conformation.

Unless such a rule change occurs there will always be some in season bitches at a show, so if a bitch exhibitor really feels they want a particular judges opinion then they will take their bitch, you will have lost your entry fee, and the dogs your being considerate about may well be affected by someone else's bitch a and your consideration was for nothing..

Few owners will want to take a bitch that is in standing heat as she won't show well, it is most likely the first few days or after she is finished when many males are still desperate despite her being finished, and unless you own males you have no way of knowing if you bitch 23 or 26 days post season start is still attractive.

I have taken a bitch on the first couple of days of a season, kept well away from the males and had no bother, including on the benches, on the other hand I have had problems with males bitching with a bitch I thought was well past interesting. 

I have been stood with a bitch with various males including a stud dog who took no notice whatsoever, yet another young male was acting up, often it turns out the bitch comes in season a few days later. 

I would prefer to not see in-season bitches at shows, but I don't think it would entirely eliminate the problem. You could be stood next to an exhibitor with an in-season bitch at home, or as many champshows are held in parks and public places where local people would normally walk their dogs, there could have been a bitch on the grass the day before the show was set up. For some dogs it's all it takes. We were at a companion show at the weekend, in a local park, and my daughter (15) was handling my big male Malinois. He had his nose to the ground constantly and he actually dragged her out of the ring and acted silly all day. There were no  bitches in season there as far as we could tell, so we assumed somebody had walked one there the previous day. My daughter has handled this dog at Crufts so is well used to him, but she couldn't hold him this time. And he's a mature 4 year old that knows what's what.

I have been deliberating this point as I think my puppy at 9 months old is building up to her first season. With the cost of entry fee's at champ shows being in the £24+ per dog region, until or if the K.C. make some proviso that there will be a refund of entry fee's if a bitch is in season on show day then I will most definitely take mine. If I've paid my entry fee I have the right to attend the show. I have not taken my other bitch to Open shows in the past when she's been in season but then you are probably talking about a quarter of the entry fee lost.

As someone else said, if you stayed away someone else will be bound to turn up with an in season bitch.

When I was showing bitches I wouldn't dream of taking an in-season bitch to a show; for a start they're often feeling not quite themselves and often don't do themselves justice, particularly their first season. Also I firmly believe it's incredibly unsporting.

When I was showing dogs my previous feelings about it were confirmed a hundred-fold. It's a very good way to lose respect and friendship!