Hi Jo

Good to see you are still here...on this forum I mean :-) ... not many old familiar faces from the past left!

There isn't any known genetic reason why liver x liver should reduce pigment but it is interesting why some frown upon it.   After all a bb is a bb no matter what the parentage.

You could be right in that the A locus has an influence but I doubt it would be sable as this is thought to reduce even black pigment (to seal) sometimes if a dog is heterozygous at the K locus (Kk).  Maybe FCs and IWS are recessive black too.

Julie

I know you have seen the site I mentioned earlier Jo. With that in mind, some Liver FC's produce very good nose pigmentation. Thinking of yours and Sue Clark's (Sue May) Hazell. I would be interested in what Hazell would have produced had she been mated to a good pigmented liver. I know Sue always had in mind to use a black dog but it's not going to happen now of course, Hazell is the same age as my Anna and we have both left it too late :( My thoughts, for what it's worth is that up till now, unlike choc Labs the liver FC has not been indiscriminatly bred. There is no doubt in my mind that £ signs have led to some of the very worst breeding in the poor chocolate Labrador and we will be paying for it for years to come.

Best wishes, John

Hi Julie

Yes I'm still alive - contrary to popular opinion!!!   How's things in Pembrokeshire?    We were down to a funeral a fortnight ago, but unfortunately couldn't stay as we had all the dogs in tow!!

I will try to send you down a picture of my little bitch with close up of hairs if I can manage it.    I'm not sure of the affect of the K locus.  

Interestingly, we had a bitch for stud the other week who was a wonderful black with definite dark bronze saddle markings (not complete) - actually I suppose more like bi-lateral flank markings.    She was by a liver out of a black, and went to our dog who is black carrying liver.   Be interesting to see what she produces, although unfortunately you can't see properly until they get their adult coat.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Jo

Yes, we're still all green and mouldy in Pembrokeshire..... but no, actually its been unusually dry lately!

Its thought that some dogs that are Kk can show underlying A locus pattern through the black in the form of seal which is brownish black occurring where the tan markings would be.  This is more often seen in crossbreds where K and k are more likely to meet up but could well be in FCs too.  Do you ever have A locus, like tanpoint in Labs, appearing?

Julie

Hi Julie

Not exactly tan point - I've never seen it on the face as such , but have seen dark tan/liver on the legs and tail - sometimes in the middle of the tail, sometimes around the tail base.

This isn't being confused with coat loss; it's in full-coated dogs.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats