CD, you ask advice, you are given it, you don't like it, so your rude. Fine run along and do as you wish, no point in asking if you don't or wont listen to the replies.

I have read the replies thankyou and had a couple of really nice emails and contact numbers from people who haven't posted, i will be asking to go on waiting lists and would like to thank those that offered real advice, but as far as your concerned i'm sorry but you are far too patronising and arrogant in your posts, and i dare bet you wind people up constantly with it.
Chris

Obviously they are about because you have seen one. However I'm sure you're a sensible man who wouldn't be so silly as to buy a dog purely for its colour. There are other dogs of similar colours out there as well However, if you have set your heart on getting something that is uncommon, you will simply have to be patient. The best things come to those who wait.

And I only asked you how your search was progressing. There was absolutely no need to be so rude. I (politely) suggest you don't take that tone when you contact reputable breeders, because they would see Hell freeze over before they sold you a pup.
:)

Sorry i was speaking to Jackie H and didn't know i had replied to your post, yes i find that lady obnoxious and up herself i (polilely) only asked if anybody could give me some info on where to get hold of a parti poodle, I was told NO, and if what was posted yesterdayu is anything to go on hell will probably freeze over before these TRUE poodles see the light of day.
Chris

Chris, have you contacted the Kennel Club for a list of breeders? Or the Toy Poodle breed clubs? Toy poodles anyway aren't particularly numerous - and many of the 'accepted' colours are extremely hard to find, so you have set yourself a hard task in finding something even more unusual.

All pedigree poodles are true poodles, remember.

I have been in touch with the kennel club, and contacted a few breeders. I doubt i'll ever come accross a toy parti but i will keep looking, i'm a man and i notice pretty girls even in poodle form lol

Why are you attacking me, I have only suggested what others have. And voiced my concern when someone says they will buy from a puppy farmer.

I have no argument with you and agree totally with people being against puppy farms but i felt you were attacking me for wanting a parti poodle. I am sorry that we have had this misunderstanding and for what it's worth i apologise for what i posted.

It could well be that Parti coloured pups occur very rarely, especially when the breeders are breeding for the standard. I very much soubt, especially in the small varieties that anyone would have too large3 a litter, and therefore choose to cull out mthe mismarks.

I have seen one once near me, and would imagine that they pop up rartely, and breeders would generally avoid breeding into a line where it occurs, as it would be sods law that the best pup they ever saw was an unacceptable colour.

As you addressed me in person I thought you were replying to my last post, and therefore did not understand your point.

I too don't like the idea that the KC rule what colours we should and should not have, I have a mostly white collie who I rescued from a rescue centre, she was thrown out and abused because of it, if the KC accepted different colours she would be a happy dog.
Gina

Please can you explain what you mean by

she was thrown out and abused because of it

I am sure you are aware that the rescue homes are full to the brim of both crossbreeds and also *usual* coloured pedigree dogs? I fail to see why your dog was abused simply because of her colour , please could you clarify for me?

Many thanks

Melody :)

Well we think she was abused as is very hand shy, they told us that it was probably because she was white, as she was in a worse way than most in the centre. Also you hear of breeders culling their pups because of them being the wrong colour. I agree that upping the price for a different coloured pup is bad breeding, but I think they should be allowed to register them, but then they couldn't really police it.
Gina

I dont doubt that she was abused but I do fail to see what that has to do with her colour Im afraid.

I believe that wrong coloured pups can be registered ...just not much point showing them as they are not upto the breed standard .

Melody :)

oh i didn't realise as someone said to me that white gsds can't be registered with the kc.

Melody's right. Non-standard colours can be registered as such.

Has she been BAER tested? White, handshy - that rings alarm bells to me. And would explain a lot.

Is that hearing? It would explain why she doesn't like people approaching her when she can't see them too, but she does agility and doesn't have any problems hearing, at least I didn't think so, flying contacts just I thought her being naughty.

Yes, it's hearing. BAER is the only way to find out if she's deaf - clapping your hands behind her etc is no good, because deaf animals can pick detect the air movements. You need to know what the brain is registering. If she is indeed deaf, then she may well have been punished for not obeying - when in fact she hadn't heard the command. :( It happens a lot, unfortunately. Dogs with undetected deafness often have a miserable existence.

Where can this be done, at our vet? Or do we have to go somehwere specially to get it done?
Gina

There's about a dozen places where they have the testing equipment - it's very unlikely your vet is one of them. Have a look at this link for details of testing centres etc.

I have just found this Gina don't know if it will help, but it seems breeders are super fast to blame colours for faults so i thought i'd send it.

While, as in Danes, Dobermans, and other breeds, a pure white coat indicates albinism and possibly deafness and sight deficiency, a white coat in the German Shepherd Dog is not a new mutation but a normal coat type that has been around since the breed was established in Germany. White Shepherds are not associated with any health problems that are not present in other GSDs, and are not albinos in any degree. They have, like any other Shepherd: dark eyes, black noses, hearing, and pigmented skin. The reason they are not allowed in conformation is because, in Germany, as the breed was developing, some dogs were being found that had paler coats than was desired. Misunderstanding the genetics of the GSD, fanciers blamed the white dogs for causing these patterns, and amended their breed standard to exclude all white dogs.

This is a white collie we're talking about, cdshaw. Deafness is quite common in collies, especially very white ones.

Sorry - my mistake Gina had said that "white GSD's couldn't be registered" so i didn't know she was talking about a collie

Yes no I just used that as example, I know some lovely perfectly healthy white GSDs but was told by someone they couldn't be registered with the KC which I didn't think was very fair, they were obviously wrong then. My collie is mostly white with blue merle ears and a bit of blue spottling.
Gina

What colour are her eyes, Gina? If you've read all the info on the site I posted, and done a search as well, you'll have seen that the blue merle gene can carry a lot of problems. Beautiful dogs, it's such a shame.

How would you go about training a deaf dog? I should imagine it would be a task and half
Chris

It certainly requires specialist training. Not a task I would want to undertake.

Me neither, just a walk in the park would be hard and the dog would always need to be on a leash i'd imagine.

They can be trained to respond to hand signals, but for those to be effective you have to have to dog looking at you. There are battery-powered vibrating collars which you can use to attract their attention, but the dog still has to co-operate. They can go off the lead in a securely enclosed space, but can never safely experience the freedom enjoyed by hearing dogs.

So is that why they tend to be hand shy? too many bad memories from chewing and toilet training. i'd of thought the rescue would of picked up on it if the dog is deaf.

We posted at the same time, Chris! Yes, no doubt she was physically punished for not doing what she was told. Staff at most rescue societies, and shockingly even most vets, simply clap their hands to see if a dog reacts, which is useless as a diagnostic tool.

Blue eyes. To be honest I have seen many deaf dogs in rescue and have wanted to bring them home (mum wouldn't let me) as I think they are so special and I would love the challenge of training a deaf dog.

PS We have wondered wether she could be a double merle, we'll never know.

I had a quick look on the internet Gina and found http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9576/trainer.html this lady has a deaf dog and gives some good basic training tips that might be useful. Good luck
Chris

Just from your description of her I would think it safe to assume she is totally deaf. Certainly have her BAER tested, and read up all the sites you can find about dealing with a deaf dog.

This is probably why she was abused. She would have been punished for 'disobedience' when in fact she hadn't heard anything. It happens very frequently. A black mark to the rescue for not diagnosing it. Just her physical appearance should have made them suspicious.

I know this is a long shot but does anyone know of a Toy poodle from the Vulcan line, apparently Vulcan Kennels in the UK bred parti poodles from 1942 - 1962 Vulcan Champagne Fiesta (bitch) and Vulcan Champagne Carnival (dog) were born on Nov. 16, 1964 and were the last particolours bred at Vulcan Kennels.

sorry i cant be of any help chris, have you tried looking on the internet under breeders?

I have had a look Jacki but Vulcan stopped breeding parti poodles some 40 years ago so i think the best i can hope for is to trace the line forward and hope some of todays breeders dogs may be carrying the gene for parti. It seems these dogs are only really available from the states but that means quarentine! and i don't think i could put a dog through that.
Chris

Hi Chris,
I have emailed you some details that may help in your search.

I know I have come to this thread late, but to the people who don't think colour should matter, may I ask just what breed the following would be if colour didn't count for anything: Russian
Black Terrier, Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier, Kerry Blue, Golden Retriever?

nobody has said colour doesn't count for anything, some people have just stated that colours which are known in breeds should not be excluded in the breed standard.
Chris

You said "It isn't a real fault, just a man decided one". Buffy said "To me colour in a breed standard doesn't make sense". If colour wasn't defined in breed standards, all breeds would come in all colours and we would start to lose some of the breeds. We could then go on to other issues - coat textures, size, it could go on and on until we just have an average sized, any colour, any type of coat single breed of dog.

With regard to my comment poodles have been known to be born with two colour coats forever and yes i do believe the breed standard should not exclude these dogs. Buffy has i understood it was only passing comment on the same issue. Allowing colours that are not alien to a breed and those which have only being rejected through visual preference is silly, it isn't going to turn any pedigree into a mongrel nor will it create a single breed dog.
Chris

The Vulcan Poodle kennels are still very much in operation today although only breeding standards. Why dont you get in touch with Miss Ann Coppage who is now the owner of the Vulcan Poodles and ask her for any imformation. I am sure she will be only too happy to help you. I could give you a contact phone number if you need it.

Thanks Freddie i already have her Name, Address, Tel number and email thanks. I tried to email yesterday but had no luck (email returns unsent) so i have sent a letter. fingers crossed
chris

Good luck in your search Chris. Do let us know if you happen to find one. I have seen Toy Poodles too that are particoloured. Think they look very nice.