You're fortunate you haven't come across a dog as sensitive as this, especially with someone who isn't its owner, and who therefore hasn't got the bond of trust needed....
:)

You forget that at this stage I will have worked with the dog for a long time, it takes many months to even get to this stage, I may even of had the dog from a puppy.

Pib, what you seem to be saying is, if you do not train a dog to my standards and in my way, then the dog is not properly trained. Sure you will want to correct this impression.

Not at all but I fail to see how you can train dogs in certain situations using your method, and you have not said anything that makes me change my mind.

But you do not know anything about my methods, come to think of it nor do I, I don't have a method I will use anything that will work with a particular dog, but I would never advice anyone training a dog I have not seen to use heavy handed methods, it is not safe the owner could finish up with a problem worse than the one they started with.

I get the impression that you think I beat dogs, well nothing is further from the truth.If you cast your mind back I was explaining the way I train dogs in a hands on way if needed, and that is the point some times it is needed.

Some dogs will not respond to softly softly all the time, and like to test the boundaries, others do not, so I agree with you. An entirely softly softly approach would do nothing for my youngest, but any heavy handedness with her grandmother would upset her, and training would be negated.

Don't know how you train your dogs, Peb, you may beat them, but it did not cross my mind, it was your do it my way, it is the only way, that I replied to. If you re-read my posts you will see that the only thing I am worried about is that new owners do not start scruffing their dogs and would repeat the comments I have made elsewhere.

It is fine to ask the opinion of others and how they deal with their own dogs, but it is important to remember that you and your dog are individuals and what works for me may be different to what works for others. Sure you will be able to sort out the different ideas, and sometimes dictates, you will get to any advice you ask for, it will need you to pick & mix to suit you and your dog. Everyone has their own idea of what they require from the dog they own and all dogs are different, some respond to one thing and some to another, I am sure you will be able to sort the advice that will suit your situation and ignore what does not.

The basic training of dogs be them pets or working is the same its only the the correction that differs from dog to dog.I only have an issue with the fact that you disagree with the need for hands on correction if it is needed, this is something we will never agree on.I believe I have raised certain areas where your training would not work at all, but my method of softly with sensitive dogs and more hands on with harder dogs will work with any breed and for what ever use.

As I said, I don't have a method, as all dogs differ there seems no point in having a method. Horses for courses - Different dogs-different training, but I have never had 'a method'

Perhaps you will only look at the way you train when you come across a dog that you can't

Then I'll ask for help, like I did with my last one. As I said, each dog is different so if I need help I get it.

Fingers crossed that will never happen, because I strongly believe that if I need to use force on a dog I have failed at the first hurdle.
:)

You will fail at every hurdle if you ever have a dog that needs a firm hand and you are not willing or able to correct him

Oh I correct them alright - but by using my brain, not brawn!
:)
Edit: No failures so far! ;)

So far!

pib, i guess you keep your dogs outside in kennels with no form of heating, no contact with anyone other than yourself and that is only when training or feeding, hands on training? i know what this is too, the odd punch in the ribs, grabbing the dog by the lip to keep it still, kicking etc. I know all about pple like you and your hands on training as i am around these type of pple everyday, it makes me sick and i hope one day a dog does turn on you when you man handle it, its only what you deserve!

The only dog I have had a problem with was hand shy, do you think grabbing hold of him and forcing my will would have worked then?

I am not totally green when it comes to training dogs, and I have seen the result of people taking the 'give it a slap' 'throw it to the ground' type methods, spent a fair bit of my life trying to sort the results.

And I would think if people saw the way my hounds behave they would consider them untrained, but they are my dogs and are trained to the level I like, they do not interfere and are not a danger to anyone, so the amount of control I have is the amount I need for my dogs. Everyone else can train their dog to suit themselves, but I would never advice anyone to lay hands on a dog or use force, unless I had seen the situation for myself.

No of course not and you no full well that's not what I'm saying, you seem to intent on twisting the hands on approach.I have said numerous times it all depends on the dog, I would never grab a hand shy dog and I don't make a habit of grabing dogs full stop.

OK Peb, when I advice a poster with a (on the face of it a simple problem) to ignore it and turn their backs, why do you come in with that wont work etc. If you think it is worth a try then why not say so, then say if that does not work something more active may be in order. Sometimes on a forum, you read people advising disciplining the dog in a physical way and that is how your post read, and you know as well as I do that it is not a good idea to advice such a thing unless you are there to supervise

Just because we have been in dogs for a long time it is as well to remember that we do not know all the answers and although there are to my mind some nonsense ideas with regard to training dogs about these days, there is no harm in people trying T Touch – Aromatherapy – Discs – Clickers and such, some work well and do no harm. But sure you will agree working dog training methods or hands on methods of training should not be advanced on the Net, this is not the place to advice training that needs you the trainer to be on hand to see what the situation is and give advice first hand, this is not possible on line and IMO this sort of training should not be encouraged.

I am sure you would not ask the person who pops down the gym once a week to follow a workout set for a athlete and in the same way a person training a dog in a domestic situation should not be asked to follow the sort of routine you see fit to train your gundogs with. All your sneering about the ‘domestic/pet dog does is make people feel they can’t cope, is that what you intend, I hope not.

I can see no reference in Pibs postings to punching the dogs, kicking or grabbing lips Jacki
You are making wild assumptions which may be completely unfounded.
Lara x

You no nothing of me or the way I train dogs,I have never punched or kicked a dog in my life you obviously have not followed this this debate from the start. Your comments offensive and childish and are born out of hysteria.

Not addressing me I hope!

Actually I found myself in just that situation about a year ago - she was heading down a hedge after a rabbit, totally ignored my ONE call (I don't call my dog more than once, if they don't pay attention to the first call, why should they pay attention to the second?) so I walked away, hid and broke out the whistle - she returned ............

The art of dog training hasn't been perfected yet in my opinion no more than how best to bring up children in todays world has . We go to dog training ourselves , and read many of the great books around - but there are lots of inconsistencies, and I have learnt that I know my own dog - what works and what doesn't with him, and what I am comfortable with . I think you have to take it all as 'advice'. Personally my dog though gentle and kind would take advantage if I didn't keep reinforcing the basics every time . In fact we are going through a challanging spell at the moment ( he's 15 months) - he doesn't pay attantion, won't play when we ask him to and has started jumping up at people (something he had grown out of we thought) . I think the behaviour is to do with us being too undisciplined ourselves, and not acknowledging he is still a puppy, but we are seeing the behaviourist all the same ( about the jumping up people bit) .

Having said all that my mother in laws dog is so different and would never challanege anything - all dogs are different - that's why we all like particular personailities and breeds

Nikki

Locked until this thread can be branched