waddling...puffing....panting....wasnt that the dog who won crufts?! :D :D :d.

How can one judge a dog if they have never owned one.

You can't *judge* one ...but you can have an opinion ;) There are breeds I don't like , breeds that I have a strong opinion on ...and no , I have never owned them ...doesn't mean I can't have the opinion though , does it?

:)

Yes but what I was saying was how can you generalise one breed by saying they are waddling huffing puffing etc when you may have only had the pleasure of meeting a few of them.

That isn't judging the whole breed though ..that is commenting on the one example they had seen. I saw the dog being mentioned and it DID look like it was having difficulties. I remember we had long discussions on here after Crufts , mostly to do with the winner :D

You can only comment on what you see ....that isn't *judging* IMHO , it is passing an opinion on that particular dog ...what you have to remember is that , for people with working dogs for example , a toy dog will often look or sound odd....we are used to out particular breed running around and leaping over things ..to then see a dog that appears to waddle or huff and puff ..seems (and I use the word *seems* deliberately) unnatural.

It is human nature to pass comment , I have had some dreadful things said about Malamutes in my presence ...c'est la vie. I know my breed and they don't , I just try to politely and calmly explain my breed to the person rather than leaping down their throats , it works far better :D :D

I wasn-t aware that I had leapt down anyones throat

Er...I didn't mean you ...I meant me

:rolleyes:

Edit to add:
Look , I think I will bow out of this thread now ..you are obviously feeling rather put upon....an innocent remark NOT directed at you AND followed by two simley faces and you still thought I was having a pop at you :) Maybe you should try not to take things quite so personally? I think the thread is about Bulldogs and not about you *shrug* I apologise for my attempt at making you see a different side to things :) Peace and love , Melody

Hi Melodysk

Sorry if I have upset you, I think things can be taken the wrong way when put down in text. Yes I do take it personally when people slate the breed as I feel as though people must think I am cruel to keep the dogs that have been described here, when i fact this is not the case, the dogs are very energetic and lively and I have never had any problems with their breathing.

Please accept my sincere apologies

Jolene

No problem :)

i know the feeling people just cant accept other peoples views and believe they have to be right all the time!

I see a lot of huffing puffing waddling dogs, and none of them are bulldogs. Most often they are Springers, Labs, Golden Retrievers, Cavaliers and Westies (see very few fat Greyhounds). Now as Bulldogs can be sedentary by nature I would imagine it is easy for may a pet, in common with a large proportion of the pet dog population, will be overweight.

Any unfit dog will pant and puff. A lean and fit one should not. Boxers adn Bulldogs will slobber quite aq bit, but so do many of the jowly breeds,a nd a lot of the gundogs too.

By studying the Breed Standards, jmo! I don't honestly think that the people qualified to judge all the recognised breeds have owned them all, do you?! :)

No, I haven't owned one - so therefore its up to owners such as yourselves to put the record straight, because the general opinion of non-bulldog owners, is that they have been bred to the point that they could not reproduce themselves (see the AI comment up above which doesn't help!). I have absolutley nothing against the breed, and it has been interesting to read how fit and active they are, because thats how a dog should be IMO.

My gripe has been, and always will be, the price... I think prices are being driven up to encourage exclusivity of the breed and to ensure that they retain that "wow" factor...under the excuse that they cost a lot to breed with C Sections. But if they are fit and healthy and not being bred with massive out of proportion heads, then surely they will whelp easily - so will the price come down then?

I'm not having a go at anyone about this, if I wanted something bad enough then yes, I would pay it... but I just feel that certain breeders are taking advantage of the situation. I personally know of a Bulldog breeder who sells her puppies for £800 each...so why do some breeders charge double or more?

Hi Chloe

I sometimes feel as though we go round in circles on this topic, as said before not all bulldogs have AI and alot of bulldogs are self whelping, again we are generalising the breed from one persons experiences.

Before I got my eldest Hilda, she had had a natural conception and self whelped aswell

Hi JMO

You're right, we do go round in circles...but at least its an interesting topic with people who are passionate about a breed, and not yet another thread about "studding my dog" and "how to find a crossbreed" :rolleyes: :) ;)

Chloe

This is may be a whole new topic but I was wondering if judging a breed on what you see in the BIS ring at Crufts, is a very good idea. Crufts is a very stressful place for both dog and handler and for me it is my least favourite show, in fact I have not been for 3 years because I hate it so much.

The dogs you see in the BIS ring, 2 will have been there since 8 in the morning have been through their breed classes and the group and had people looking and some times touching them all day. The other 5 will have been through the same thing over the last couple of days and then had to return around 2 PM and sit on a bench till the BIS judging. Some, if not all, will not be at their best, will not be as they normally are and are not reprehensive of the whole breed.

If you wish to see dogs in a more normal state you would be better to attended one of the other Championship Dog shows on an average day, and walk around the benches and the ring, watch the youngsters playing with one another and enjoying their day out. Yes, in the breeds with brachycephalic or even Mesaticephalic skulls you will see some that are not as we would wish, but talk to the breeders and I think you will find most are trying very hard to improve things and will resent the fact that you are judging their beloved breed on one dog seen in stressful circumstances.

Well said Jackie. The Brachy breeds never would be my choice, but I will not condemn them and their breeders on such a situation as Crufts.

hi chloe. i think thats exactly what we have been trying to do. :).

I can only comment on the unfortunate Bulldogs that I have seen throughout my lifetime :(
I sincerely hope that as some posters claim, the dogs that I have met, are somehow in the minority?
I do hope so :)

Honey,
how many "unfortunate bulldogs" have you seen in your lifetime then? although they are a popualar breed you dont get many around in the uk - i am not sure about other contries.
Just ask around there are lots of people that want them - but cannot get them they are like looking "for needles in a haystack".
Excuse the term i used peeps - just trying to defend the breed.
But you must have seen more than me - and i own 5 !( and my eldest is err well old ! and shes healthier than me!)
And although there seems to be a few Bulldog owners on CD, i wonder how many people with Bulldogs you see in the street on an everyday basis? not that many i bet !
Jane :)

the only time we see another bulldog is at a show. there are certainly none in my area. before i lost hamble i must have had over a hundred e mails and phone calls asking about pups. they all said the same....we have been searching for months/years. and you certainly never find them in rescue. even bulldog rescue has a 2 year waiting list of people desperate to re home.

Hi Tanni,
peeps come from miles around just to see my dogs sitting at the gates....Honey if you are in the UK you are more than welcome to come and meet my dogs...and spend a couple of hours here with them, and watching them....and if that dont convince you after you have left...i dont know what will...
Jane.

Well I went to a special event with my bitch which was held in a hotel under spotlights, and I can tell you my very natural looking dog was finding it hard not to puff with the heat they give off, not to mention her overweight owner/handler. At Crufts in the BIS ring there are loads of lights, adn I think I am right in thinking that the BIS had not long since come from the Group judging, and breed judging earlier in the day.

I diod discover dogs that day with my elkhounds, and by the time we left and this was before BIS, they were absolutely exhausted from doing nothing more strenuous than have a pat from passersby. The heat and stale air in the NEC are something else.

at blackpool i had the pleasure of being in the group with the bulldog that went on and won best in show--that dog can move!!!! it was red hot, other breeds where struggling, and it went around like it wasnt noticing the heat at all, -head up and striding out!!!!!! i remember a bulldog at border union a few years ago, again in the group which i think it won , also on a red hot day storming around the ring-these where both fit and capable dogs-great representatives of there breed-however i also heard one at leeds coming through that could easily be heard a long way away, it was like a rattling engine coming bye, the owner was dragging it along as it didnt seem to have the will to move----these are the ones that get the breed a bad name, however its only about the 3rd time in many years ive ever heard one rattling and so obviously uncomfortable, -----------so lets not dam a whole breed for a few overdone ones, -there are some crackers out there too,

well said!. :d :d. just sorry that from the tone of honeys post she is still not convinced. ahh well.:p.

Locked, until I get time to branch it.