I think the general public are put off poodles because basically the only time they see one it’s in a “fussy” lion cut or similar. They look like posh high-maintenance over-the-top show dogs, and don’t give the impression that they’re an everyday pet.

It’s such a shame, because every poodle I’ve met has been a “proper dog”, even the one at ringcraft who is obviously also a show dog.

Totally agree that the ‘poodle’ in all its sizes would match that description - but to joe public I would say that the coat is too much for them to maintain. It should be easy to brush a poodle, it IS easy to brush a poodle but people don’t. We had someone in with a beautiful black standard poodle, and in my 3 years of grooming it I only ever styled a proper poodle cut once, other than that every time he came in he had to be shaved...the owner may as well have got a greyhound as that’s more what he resembled when he left the salon. Unfortunately the majority of owners don’t brush their dogs, and if they do then they don’t brush properly to the root of the hair which is what you have to do with curly coats. I think the majority of us on here understand that but, the amount of times we’d repeat coat maintenance and brushing to joe pub that if they want a ‘fluffy’ to do this was unbelievable, brushing is ‘too much’ for a lot of people...they don’t see the bond it creates either. Which is a shame...one of my labs could quite easily have a hard to manage coat as she loves being brushed - holding the brush up in the air is like holding a piece of chicken up, she comes running and sits at my feet waiting for the massage to begin

weimed:  > what puzzles me is why the poodle crosses keep being done when it is not producing the desired dogs?

Your so right!  All this non shedding, easy care, lap dog stuff drives me mad....
Don't think there is such a thing as a non shedding dog (unless itn't one of these 'baldy ones' like the 'baldy cats',. People who want a dog based on no grooming should buy a battery operated dog and those that cannot be bothered to excercise them are not worth even mentioning - get a hamster (or do they moult?  don't know for sure).

Poodle crosses I have met are coat matting, fluffy, hyper but also clingly little things.   Nooooo not my choice.

Totally agree that the ‘poodle’ in all its sizes would match that description - but to joe public I would say that the coat is too much for them to maintain.

I get that -but from what I hear from many grooming friends the crosses are often just as bad and with more difficult coat, so no real difference.

Madforlabs:  > one of my labs could quite easily have a hard to manage coat as she loves being brushed - holding the brush up in the air is like holding a piece of chicken up, she comes running and sits at my feet waiting for the massage to begin

Fantastic picture;  they are such a well rounded breed and fit every medium sized dog criteria as a great pet.  (as long as you can stop them eating every possible scrap of food they can find) Sorry, very biased toward them.

I get that -but from what I hear from many grooming friends the crosses are often just as bad and with more difficult coat, so no real difference.

Would certainly agree that they’re just as bad, some may be worse even, in terms of coat. But in answering weimed’s qs I personally wouldn’t say that the poodle breed is a breed that is easy to brush through for joe public, just like I wouldn’t say a cockerpoo is - if I were to advise someone personally as I prefer pedigree dogs (bred correctly ofc) I would point them to a poodle as you’re much more certain as to what you’re getting. I’m not sure if a medium dog of the description weimed queried does exist though, only very short haired dogs are easy in terms of coat care but then you don’t get the ‘fluffy’ factor?

Fantastic picture;  they are such a well rounded breed and fit every medium sized dog criteria as a great pet.  (as long as you can stop them eating every possible scrap of food they can find) Sorry, very biased toward them.

She’s a therapy dog so it’s fab that she enjoys being brushed so much, pre covid she’d get brushed on and off for a good hour and still wait for more
As much as in my opinion she’s not large, especially not for many labs you see around *cough* not overweight *cough* *cough* I guess they’re classed as large and for some people would be too big - I know if my mum was choosing a dog she’d prefer a medium dog...maybe between 15kg-20kg, is that medium? Mine are working and leaner but not the small type, lightest being 26kg and heaviest 31kg.

Madforlabs:> She’s a therapy dog so it’s fab

Absolutely - every therapy dog should be given a medal on retirement!>

I know if my mum was choosing a dog she’d prefer a medium dog...maybe between 15kg-20kg, is that medium? Mine are working and leaner but not the small type, lightest being 26kg and heaviest 31kg.

Two of my Spaniels hover around 18 & 20kg respectively so yes I would say medium.  One of my Labs is only around the 23kg mark but she is small in stature and I would still call her medium...whereas my other Labs are lean toward their back ends with robust limbs and stand taller weighing between 30 & 33kg which I've always seen as large...not sure Madforlabs.
maybe some of the other posters would have a better knowledge of the destinction

My neighbour has a goldendoodle and I have to admit I was surprised at her coat. It’s wiry rather than curly and she sheds just as much as a golden.

She has face furnishings and although her owners get her whole body trimmed in summer she only really needs her “beard” doing as it gets wet every time she drinks.

Apart from the coat and her curled up poodle tail, she physically resembles the golden much more than the poodle. She’s more nervy than a typical golden in temperament though.

Silverleaf:  Think it has been mentioned before but I am always surprised at how a GR & Poodle manage the physical act with such variances in size - or was it a standard poodle & goldie?

> she only really needs her “beard” doing as it gets wet every time she drinks.

'sounds familiar!'

Labs are classed as a large breed. They shouldn't be weighing in the same as a Springer or be of similar size. There are a huge variation in the breed for height and weight I know depending on the lines but they are a large breed

I'd say that's medium.

My girls are 19 1/2 at shoulder 17 - 20kg.

A size you can pick up, when needed, but not carry around.

I call them Collie size.

Labradors I'd class as large.

Labs are classed as a large breed. They shouldn't be weighing in the same as a Springer or be of similar size. There are a huge variation in the breed for height and weight I know depending on the lines but they are a large breed

Yes they are in that category, I think I was unclear, just to me they don’t seem large just normal but small dogs to me seem tiny, think I’m just used to the large breeds more so they don’t seem all that ‘large’ to me. Should point out too that my labs are all girls which makes a difference weight wise.

Madforlabs:  > Should point out too that my labs are all girls which makes a difference weight wise

So true and being honest, I could pick all my cockers & labs up but couldn't carry them very far as Brainless highlighted whether classed medium or large, I'd end up with a hernia!

> I am always surprised at how a GR & Poodle manage the physical act with such variances in size - or was it a standard poodle & goldie?

You should talk to Goldmali, who took on a rescue Malinois, who turned out to be pregnant.

Only canine male she had been with was a Chihuahua!!!

You guessed it as the pups developed it became obvious that was who Dad was.

> was it a standard poodle & goldie?

She’s a bit taller than a regular golden so I’d have to assume standard poodle.

She’s a lovely dog, I have to admit, and gets on very well with my tiny papillon. I suspect my neighbour got lucky though, who knows what the rest of the litter were like?

Size wise, I think it depends on what scale you’re using. Small/medium/large, I’d put labs in the medium category.

But if you’re thinking toy/small/medium/large/giant, I’d say large.

Brainless:  > Only canine male she had been with was a Chihuahua!!!

Hilarious!  Belly laughing at the thought hee hee!

Malinois x chi OMG that is a terrible cross!  Chihuahua are such fiesty opinionated dogs I dread to think of one in a bigger body lol

Fortunately Goldmali has the experience to deal with less easy breeds, and all the other pups were homed with very experienced owners.

My two cockers aresmallish compact and  quite stocky. They dont5look it but they weigh 16kg.  Lots of cockers are larger rangier and weigh much less. They're classed as medium dogs but to me they're small.

You should talk to Goldmali, who took on a rescue Malinois, who turned out to be pregnant.

Only canine male she had been with was a Chihuahua!!!

Yes that really was the surprise of a lifetime! Rescue bitch who came to us as her fourth home within a month, she looked a little bit podgy but she was so stressed out that the vet simply could not examine her properly, but she figured she probably wasn't pregnant, most likely having a phantom. A couple of weeks later the bitch had settled next to me on the couch one evening and as I was stroking her sides, I felt puppy movement. We contacted the original owner which was the only one she could have got pregnant whilst with due to the timings involved, and was told "But we only have one other dog and he is a Chihuahua". (Interestingly she gets on much better with little dogs than ones her own size.)

22 days after she arrived she whelped 4 pups. They looked very similar to Malinois pups, but not quite, and amazingly they were more or less the same size/weight that you would expect newborn Mali pups to be. Then life became rather difficult as the poor bitch, who had trusted me enough to stay with her whilst she whelped, decided she wanted nobody near her pups. Not me, not my husband -she even went mad when birds flew past the window. She was being extremely aggressive and totally stressed out. Can't blame her at all but it was quite scary. It took 2 weeks before I could as much as look at the pups whilst she was in the same room. By 5 weeks she had settled and was happy to let anyone see the pups.

As the pups grew it became more and more obvious that they had Chihuahua looks. Zero doubt. Even Chihuahua breeders said so. I rehomed two to previous Malinois puppy buyers, and one to an experienced friend of a friend. There was no way I was going to advertise these pups for sale to strangers so we simply kept the last pup left.

These pups are now 2 ½ years old. They all look very similar; two are red sable, two are fawn sable, and the one dog is a bit bigger than the bitches. They are around 12 inches tall. Essentially they look like badly bred over sized Chihuahuas. Not all that different from many dogs sold as Chihuahuas! But they are 100 % WORKING line Malinois in temperament, and believe me, that means they are NOT ever going to be pet dogs. The energy levels are sky high. I hope nobody ever does the cross deliberately as it would be a disaster! If we hadn't seen them be born, you'd never believe they came from the mother they did as their looks are all from their father.