masajackrussell:> Yes these are people that I know personally within the breed who don’t have to advertise and breed quality dogs.

The point I raised earlier refers to exactly those who do not have to advertise or declare on any site that they have even bred a litter during the pandemic
and are therefor squeeky clean without judgement due to lack of transparency.

I've literally come from the hated site where Jack Russells range from £1200 to £1800 whereas the non transparent group you describe as personally knowing
have no boundaries as no one is observing their practices.

> The point I raised earlier refers to exactly those who do not have to advertise or declare on any site that they have even bred a litter during the pandemic<br />and are therefor squeeky clean without judgement due to lack of transparency.<br /><br />

Not sure what this has to do with my post that non KC jacks have come down in price.

I've literally come from the hated site where Jack Russells range from £1200 to £1800

I did say that there were a few still high but there are plenty on there down at £950. £1200-1500 is about average for KC reg Jacks at this point in time. So my comment stands. Earlier in the pandemic, up until just before Christmas non reg jacks were all pretty much £1500 and above, some even up to £2000. ‘Rare’ colours were rife and up to £3500. Again, as I said, in general they have now dropped in line or just below.

whereas the non transparent group you describe as personally knowing<br />have no boundaries as no one is observing their practices.

Again not sure what this has to do with anything.

I’m not sure why you are arguing Hoggie when I clearly have more information on the subject that you, seeing as we are talking specifically about my breed of which you have no info on the KC side of things. So perhaps you will stop to-ing and fro-ing now.

Goldmali: > In my breed current price is £900 with most breeders

Everyone has their point of view on the pricing subject and I totally respect yours.  I have never decried anyone who sells pre covid prices and I couldn't agree more
that the right home is the most important part of vetting.

> <br />My pups cost less than £1000. I don't think anything higher is fair.

I honestly hope that this is not the case but your Puppies being resold for profit is a real possibility no matter how good your vetting has been.  I know - one of my
little ones was subject to this and the first I knew was when I went onto PetTrac to change my most recent litter's details and noticed my 'blue collared boy' (then 6
months old) was registered to someone in Aberdeen and not in Hawick (Scottish Borders) where the couple I had sold him to lived and on checking the electoral role
still lived.

> I know - one of my<br />little ones was subject to this and the first I knew was when I went onto PetTrac to change my most recent litter's details and noticed my 'blue collared boy' (then 6<br />months old) was registered to someone in Aberdeen and not in Hawick (Scottish Borders) where the couple I had sold him to lived and on checking the electoral role<br />still lived.

Hoggie, I am genuinely sorry to hear this has happened to you and I sincerely hope it was not someone off your waiting list as that would be even more awful for you.

masajackrussell:
By all means, carry on...I have nothing more to add.

masajackrussell:> Hoggie, I am genuinely sorry to hear this has happened to you and I sincerely hope it was not someone off your waiting list as that would be even more awful for you
Yeah - OK.

An update...
Appears this is an absolute minefield of a subject.

I have been thinking about this ALL day and wondering what is best to do, taking into account everyone’s comments.

I rang a couple of other local breeders, both agreed what had happened was awful. Some declined to give me a price on what they are or would sell at. Others no way I was getting on the list for ages....

Then said breeder rang me today and tried to explain again their reasons. Stating it wasn’t just covid but they believed the prices were not going to come back down and this is where retrievers will sit at now. He may well be right £2500 is the lowest I’ve seen. That’s doesn’t mean to say that others breeders are selling at that because they aren’t advertising. However he wasn’t budging even though I tried to negotiate. By the time he rang me he explained he had spoken to the majority of his list and there were those like me wanting to negotiate, others that said NO and those that just accepted it. AND THATS THE PROBLEM it’s a sellers market, he said 5 of the 7 pups were sold but wanted to keep one open for me because of the commitment I had made to them.

I feel like I’m trading in the stock market for a commodity. This is a pretty new experience for me and I imagine most breeders have never had so many people wanting puppies. He said at one point his list was a 100 long!!!

With my previous dogs the litters were already born and pups still available so it was straight forward.

I am waiting until after the weekend and I think I will make my decision.

> AND THATS THE PROBLEM it’s a sellers market

This is very true. For me, yes it’s about the quality of the puppy and everything else that comes with it, but also about the integrity of the breeder as I have to have a relationship with them for the life of the dog. Fair enough, if they want to increase their prices for their next litter then go for it, but integrity says they should honour their price stated to you. That goes to a character of a person which is massively high on the list for me.

He said at one point his list was a 100 long!!!

This I can honestly believe with the amount of enquiries I get.

Well, I'd definitely take a pup if you like all other aspects of the litter. Goodness knows it's hard enough to find a litter you like, let alone one with pups available these days.

If you're even considering it, it means you can find the extra money so it's down to principles really.

PS I had over 400 enquiries for our last litter, which was just before the pandemic.

SuzieQ22.

The breeder has treated you shabbily and no breeder is worth your tears. When you buy a puppy, you also buy a breeder. Trust in that breeder is very important to your future relationship with them. Walk away. The right puppy is out there waiting for you. It may take a while longer to come to fruition. Remember that you are talking about an investment that will last 10-14 years. It is so important to find a breeder you can trust. Quite frankly, it is the breeders loss.

So they claim that they didn't jump on the covid bandwagon but because they believe the prices would stay out they jumped on that bandwagon. They had a long time to think about this and should have made the decision long before the puppies were born and updated those on the waiting list. Leaving it too the last minute is just poor treatment of the buyers. How can you have a 12-14 year relationship with someone that treats you like this? Seems like they don't care about maintaining relationships with their puppy buyers and therefore the future of their puppies.

Now if they had an unexpected expense (like an emergency C section) and had to raise the price by the same amount to cover the costs, that would be completely different. But the way they've gone about it is contemptuous.

As for reselling that is a genuine problem. I feel very sorry for anyone that had this happen to them. But it was a problem before covid. I've seen lots of posts on different forums either from the person that sold on a pup that now wants advice to deal with the angry breeder and from the heart broken breeder wondering if they can enforce their contracts because they're worried about the puppies they don't know where they are anymore. Even some breeders being held to ransom with threats of reselling and even one where they threatened to put the pup to sleep if they didn't have X money within 24h.

> The breeder has treated you shabbily and no breeder is worth your tears.

Or your MONEY.   No way would I be buying into any of that - every time you look at the puppy over the years going forward, you'll be reminded of this experience, which should NEVER have happened, for whatever reason .... including if there had to be a C. Section involved.   We had some, but swallowed the extra cost as part of the 'fun' of breeding.   We never passed on that additional expense to our puppy buyers because what we were doing was a hobby.   It may be that you walking away makes no difference to these people if they have more enquiries/bookings than available puppies.     There will be another puppy out there - even one that a breeder has, unexpectedly, from a cancellation.

And you've now had the fun of buying a puppy tainted after all.

Now if they had an unexpected expense (like an emergency C section) and had to raise the price by the same amount to cover the costs, that would be completely different.

I don't agree with this either I'm afraid. It's not the buyer's fault if the litter had more expenses than usual. I actually had my first ever experience of a c-section in a bitch this year. It's a long story but we ended up with 3 pups and a huge vet bill, pups could not be registered and one had a very rare problem that needed surgery. I gave a healthy one for free to a close friend. I sold another healthy one to a trusted person I already knew for £300. The third I paid for the surgery for and he's fine now and I gave him for free to my daughter. I've only just finished paying off the vet bill and not even taken into account all other costs. It's breeding, it's live animals, things happen -it's the risk we take. What matters is, the pups are all fine and in excellent homes and the bitch, who was spayed at the time, has made a full recovery.

I fully agree with you MamaBas.

Goldmali I respect your opinions and admire your actions for your pups.

While I wish everyone would do the same, with regards to C section costs however at least the motivation wouldn't be greed if they weren't able to do this. I don't agree with it but I can understand it.

Giving an accurate price is important because most buyers will need to save or at least put money aside to buy a puppy

I suppose I was lucky in that having a reasonably-sized litter, the sale of one puppy would clear my vet bill - without any need to increase the price to cover a C.Section.

Well in the past couple of days I have taken on all you advice and opinions but it seems to me no matter what everyone is saying the price I was quoted is now a thing of the past and even reputable breeders are coming in line.
I had a conversation with another KC reputable breeder with a good reputation and a good history of producing quality pups. They have a litter due and will be selling for £3000 a piece.

Golden Retriever pups have always been sought after but appears now even more so. Obviously their loving nature and great family dog has appealed to even more people. I can’t see the prices coming back down and those breeders that say they wouldn’t sell at those prices I reckon will give in and do it anyway.

I believe I was badly treated and as unfair as it was I have accepted that’s the market now. I can see it from their perspective. Guess it’s time to move on, forgive and forget.....

On another note my husband has already named our potential new puppy Golden Balls!!!!

I am pleased you have decided what to do .

I am imaging your husband out in the park calling golden balls to recall !

Goldmali I respect your opinions and admire your actions for your pups.

While I wish everyone would do the same, with regards to C section costs however at least the motivation wouldn't be greed if they weren't able to do this. I don't agree with it but I can understand it.

I can see this point yes.

Congrats on securing a pup in this most ridiculous puppy buying climate. Try to forget about what he cost. Your next challenge is to figure out a socialisation plan with people and dogs which is covid-19 secure! Hopefully things will be better by the time you get him home though.

Thanks 1234, I had to be realistic in the end and evaluate just how long this situation is going to go on for and like you said prices may well stay here. I am at least fortunate enough that I have already visited the breeder and seen both mum and dad already.

I know some may not agree with our decision and I was very upset but doing my research since and evaluating every aspect it is what it is... Also I haven’t heard from a single person that said they have paid less than £3000 or from any GR breeders that HAVE actually sold a litter recently for less than this despite what people say I don’t actually think anyone is really doing what they say... I may still stand corrected but I could go on and on looking and researching...

Re socialisation we are fortunate enough to live in Devon right beside the seaside. We have plenty of parks close and the beach is 5 miles long so plenty of dogs and space there.... But by the time he is ready to go out which will be April I’m keeping my fingers crossed the country is a better place

Well done on making your decision.  Good luck with the puppy.

I’m glad you’ve reached a decision, I can imagine it was a difficult thing to consider, your understandable anger with the breeders versus your desire to have the puppy.
At least now you can relax now and wait for the day you can go and bring him home.
I do hope there’s no more nasty surprises.

Just a thought re what is actually being charged.

When we complete Puppy Insurance Cover we have to give the price.

So Pet Plan Agria etc can probably tell you the current prices.

So Pet Plan Agria etc can probably tell you the current prices.

TBH I doubt that the majority of people that charge a lot bother with puppy insurance, especially as we know that the insurance companies will release details of breeders/puppies sold etc if asked by the tax office.

I do feel it would be awful if 3k were to become the norm for a pet puppy from a good breeder. For a start it would encourage yet more people to start breeding to make money.  Sell just ten pups at that price and you have double my annual household income........

I do feel it would be awful if 3k were to become the norm for a pet puppy from a good breeder. For a start it would encourage yet more people to start breeding to make money.

Wouldn’t it just!! Smaller breeds obviously don’t have so many puppies but GR and other large dogs can have so many. Our last one was 1 of 13!!! But back then he cost us £750 (2009).

Imagine that now, it is worrying because I think there will be a lot of people getting into for the complete wrong reasons.

Agree over 25+ years I have averaged just under 6 puppy average, range 3 - 9 live births, but most often 4 - 7.